357 Defensive Suggestions

[boatbum101]

When both my late wife & I carried 3" Model 65's we used either the Rem 125 Golden Sabre JHP or the Buffalo Bore 20A 38 +P 158 Lead SWCHP . Both were less than full tilt 357 loads like the Fed 357B .

 

[bigwheelzip]

The first hollow points I found when I got my first handgun, a 4" 686, were WWB 110gr. They were light recoiling and OK shooting. Then some forum members recommended the Federal C357B 125gr HP, and they were not especially dramatic to shoot, but they grouped beautifully into one ragged hole to POA, so my search for HD ammo ended right there.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
If you want 38+p ,, Supervel Super Snub 90gr JHP.
Does 1300 from a J-frame.
From a 3in [Mine is a Kimber K6s 3in DASA]
this load is like warp speed......
And only +p 38 pressure.
Use reloads for range and this for carry.
You do not need to shoot much of your carry load at the range.[ just find where it hits] ,,, you need to pratice operation .

 

[stansdds]

My experience, never shot anyone, but practiced a lot. 110 grain JHP 357 Magnum ammo is usually not as hot as the full power 125 grain ammo. I have carried and fired a lot of both the 110 and 125 grain loads in a S&W Model 640-1 ( 2-1/8" ), a S&W Model 19 ( 4" ), and a Dan Wesson Model 15-2 ( 4" heavy ventilated shroud ). The 110 grain ammo was a little easier to control, but still produced a lot of blast and flash. Not as much as the full power 125 grain ammo, but it is still very noticeable.

Now that I am older and becoming a little less tolerant of harsh recoil, I looked for something a little more pleasant to shoot. I settled on the Speer 135 grain Gold Dot 38 Special +P Short Barrel ammo. I know the 357 Short Barrel version produces even more velocity, somewhere around 200 fps more, and would probably be the best choice for a 4 inch revolver, but I have a hard time finding it. The +P 38 Special produces far less flash and blast than any of the 110 or full power 125 grain magnum loads, but you can tell by the recoil that it is definitely +P.

The Speer 135 grain Gold Dot 38 Special Short Barrel +P was the last duty ammo used by the NYPD before they eliminated revolvers from their approved carry list. This ammo earned a good reputation with the NYPD.

 

[Erocksmash]

I'm my researching endeavors, I have found that the classic 158gr ftx or jacketed holowpoint works just fine for my needs. I get it from Underwood, its not the best to practice with but it will perform when I need it the most...

 

[ContinentalOp]

I know the 357 Short Barrel version produces even more velocity, somewhere around 200 fps more, and would probably be the best choice for a 4 inch revolver, but I have a hard time finding it.

Another advantage of the .38 SB-GDHP over the .357 SB-GDHP is that you can usually find it in 50-round boxes. $35/50 is a better value than $25/20.

 

[crazyphil]

LOBO's story in #8 post is an excellent example of why .357 magnum is
a wee bit of OVERKILL. I used to carry Remington's 125-Gr. Golden Sabers
(GS357MA) in my model 19 with 4" barrel. I switched to Remington's
125-Gr. Golden Sabers (GS38SB). In other words I switched from .357
to .38 Sp. I doubt the recipient would be able to tell the difference, but
I can.

 

[hardluk1]

FiveG Check out lucky gunners test for 2" and 4" revolvers .

Better bullets today with whinny's pdx1 defender ammo and barnes xpb is top of the heap and loaded by a couple companies but cost more .

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/

 

[shocker]

The 125 gr Golden Saber 357 is not obnoxious in a 3" K frame. It has been replaced by Ultimate Defense, better bullet, same velocity.
Something to think about in carry options is these moderate 357 types are only slightly above 9mm +P in power.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Honestly, real-world experience from 30 years ago or more doesn't really mean much due to the significant development in bullet design since then. Most of the JHPs up to and including a lot of the 1980s may as well have been FMJs. The lead was thick and so was the jacket material.

But I guess the FBI doesn't know what they're doing because the judge ammo by gel tests.

Actually, the real world experience I described occurred 44 years ago. While there have certainly been changes in bullet designs since that time I would suggest that many of those changes are better described as marketing tools than advancements. Lead hasn't changed much, other than becoming more difficult and expensive to locate. Jacket materials have run the gamut from copper-nickel alloys to zinc alloys to aluminum alloys over the years, and differences in performance exist but are not always predictable or even explainable.

Gelatin testing is a comparative method, not a definitive testing tool. All that can be accomplished is comparisons of performance between various projectiles on a particular day, under particular conditions of atmospheric densities, temperatures, and humidity, using specific equipment (handguns, gelatin mixtures, testing tools, etc).

The FBI has been involved in these issues as a central source for collection of data and analysis of performance. As such the FBI is probably the best resource for providing comparative analysis, but even the FBI testing results and protocols are always accompanied by lengthy disclaimers and disclosures.

As far as predicting the terminal effectiveness of any handgun, caliber, projectile, or the other varying factors, under any or all potential field conditions, there is no fool-proof method or empirical facts that apply universally. There are only broad and general guidelines based on known and recorded facts and circumstances.

The one thing that has never changed is that shot placement is the single most critical factor. Everything else involved in handgun selection, caliber selection, and ammunition selection amounts to nothing more than a series of compromises. No guarantees, no warranty express or implied.

 

[max]

I bought some Remington 38sp +P that looks good.

 

[Bumpus13]

I tend to stay with 158gr bullets to avoid over stressing the forcing cones on my K-frames. I don't want to have to worry about if this weight is safe for caliber in whichever .357 I grab from the safe.

I like either Speer Gold Dot or Hornady Custom XTP rounds.

 

[Univibe]

I'd use .38 standard pressure 158 grain SWC, if you don't load. If I had to use my 686 for defense, I'd load that bullet at about 1000 fps, no more. Either loading will do the job. Magnum revolver loads are too much power for self defense.

 

[rwsmith]

Revolver self defense....

I'd use .38 standard pressure 158 grain SWC, if you don't load. If I had to use my 686 for defense, I'd load that bullet at about 1000 fps, no more. Either loading will do the job. Magnum revolver loads are too much power for self defense.

Chances are in any defense situation where a revolver would be used would be in the house. I don't want out ears blown out. .38 special. Remington Golden Sabers, Federal HSTs, Speer Gold Dots. Both the Sabers and the HSTs test very well. The Gold Dots are very good but aren't quite as consistent.

Hornady XTPs are rated highly, but I prefer the big 'flying ashtray' hollow points with the large cavity.

 

[kmyers]

We are both also fans of the Remington Golden Saber 125 grain. Stephen Camp did an evaluation showing the .357 Magnum load at approximately 1200 FPS, not bad recoil and still roughly half way between .38 and .357 velocities.

 

[rockquarry]

Actually, the real world experience I described occurred 44 years ago. While there have certainly been changes in bullet designs since that time I would suggest that many of those changes are better described as marketing tools than advancements. Lead hasn't changed much, other than becoming more difficult and expensive to locate. Jacket materials have run the gamut from copper-nickel alloys to zinc alloys to aluminum alloys over the years, and differences in performance exist but are not always predictable or even explainable.

Gelatin testing is a comparative method, not a definitive testing tool. All that can be accomplished is comparisons of performance between various projectiles on a particular day, under particular conditions of atmospheric densities, temperatures, and humidity, using specific equipment (handguns, gelatin mixtures, testing tools, etc).

The FBI has been involved in these issues as a central source for collection of data and analysis of performance. As such the FBI is probably the best resource for providing comparative analysis, but even the FBI testing results and protocols are always accompanied by lengthy disclaimers and disclosures.

As far as predicting the terminal effectiveness of any handgun, caliber, projectile, or the other varying factors, under any or all potential field conditions, there is no fool-proof method or empirical facts that apply universally. There are only broad and general guidelines based on known and recorded facts and circumstances.

The one thing that has never changed is that shot placement is the single most critical factor. Everything else involved in handgun selection, caliber selection, and ammunition selection amounts to nothing more than a series of compromises. No guarantees, no warranty express or implied.

Regrettably, many in search of the alleged "current best" will probably choose to ignore this excellent post.

 

[indigo22]

Not to forget the highly effective wadcutter. A wide flat point does quite a bit of damage regardless of the number or thickness of garments worn. This fact has also been proven out in many hunting fields on thick skinned game.
Lately I have moved away from all the fast light bullet designs toward Underwood 38spl 150gr hard cast wadcutters that pump out of a short barrel near 1000fps. I have found it to be very accurate in my short barreled Service Six, shooting to point of aim with fixed sights. There is something to be said for controlability over sheer blast power. As I've gotten older I have found that punishing rounds just are not as much fun as they used to be from a rifle or pistol. These Underwood wadcutters do have more punch (on my end) than any of the match target version wadcutters available but are still within my comfort zone. This in my opinion builds confidence in my equipment and my abilities should the need arise.

 

[38SPL HV]

Speer 135 gr GDHP in 357 Magnum would be my recommendation with your 3" barrel length. Yes, 38 Spl +P will also be good, Speer 135 gr GDHP, Winchester PDX 130 gr 38 Spl +P loads.

Hope all is well in Connecticut.

 

[Nevada Ed]

After all the years of people asking this question, I have just one answer.....................

With a .357 Magnum revolver....................

just make sure it is....................

Loaded !!


Good Day.