357 Mag - Loading Mid-Range Cast SWC

[M29since14]

RDub, can you tell us about your protocol on barrel cleaning? Do you do any cleaning in the course of a test like this one? Start with a clean barrel? Any bore conditioning shots fired when changing from powder to powder?

New brass used for your test, or... ?

 

[oddshooter]

I use a fair amount of 4227 for the 357mag. It's a slow powder that downloads well; unlike 296/110. I think you can get whatever velocity you want and the accuracy is outstanding. It made it's bones on the firing line for silhouette champions.

 

[SLT223]

I use a fair amount of 4227 for the 357mag. It's a slow powder that downloads well; unlike 296/110. I think you can get whatever velocity you want and the accuracy is outstanding. It made it's bones on the firing line for silhouette champions.

What do you mean by down load? I find 4227 needs full magnum pressure to burn anywhere near completely. In fact, even slightly downloading w/158's caused unburned enough kernels to blast out of the cylinder gap that I looked like I used an old rusty razor to shave the right side of my face....

 

[RDub]

RDub, can you tell us about your protocol on barrel cleaning? Do you do any cleaning in the course of a test like this one? Start with a clean barrel? Any bore conditioning shots fired when changing from powder to powder?

New brass used for your test, or... ?

No, I don't do anything special for a project like this. The brass was twice fired. The bore was fouled before starting and there was no cleaning done during. Like I mentioned above, the bore doesn't lead up much at all.
Barrels tend to shoot their best when fouled. So I wouldn't start a project like this with a clean barrel.

When I do clean, it is several passes with a .35 cal bronze brush soaked with Shooters Choice solvent, and then a jag with solvent, then dry patches with a jag. That is generally all I need.
The chambers are treated with a solvent soaked .40 cal brush. I do that until the .38 Special ring is gone, or go until the chambers and the front face of the cylinder are clear of carbon.

This kind of load is just for plinking fun, so there no need for anything real special.


Next time out I will shoot some 231. Plus some 572 and IMR BLUE.
Clays is one powder I never wound up with..

 

[BC38]

Hi
I didn't shoot 2400 because I find it doesn't burn as clean with medium pressure loads. Although very accurate, I personally don't like to use it for anything less than max pressure loads.
The same goes for H-110 or 296. They are for max loads. In fact I don't use H-110 or 296 anymore in .357. I've switched to Alliant 300-MP.

Gotcha. That makes sense.

 

[oddshooter]

slt223,

I should have said 4227 is not "erratic" like 296/110 when downloaded. When I use 296/110, I load near Max. 4227 is a slow powder like them, but I can lighten by a few grains and still get performance I can calculate. Most powders work in a linear fashion, but not all.

4227 can get a bad rap on the complete combustion and dirty scale. I like the powder so much, I don't seem to mind the cleaning. I only use a magnum primer now and have found that really helps with the complete combustion and cleanliness.

Were you kidding about the right side of your face getting blasted? I'm having an interesting time trying to figure out how your face was in that direction. Have you seen Hickok45's youtube on the Model 19 spitting so bad it brought blood? It's posted on here today.

Spitting can be nasty out of that B/C gap and I've learned my own painful lessons in the past. I'm with you on stopping use of that powder in that gun with that recipe. I assume that your other recipes don't cause the spitting. I think that means the spitting is not coming from misalignment or timing.

Poop happens.

Prescut

 

[SLT223]

slt223,


Were you kidding about the right side of your face getting blasted? I'm having an interesting time trying to figure out how your face was in that direction. Have you seen Hickok45's youtube on the Model 19 spitting so bad it brought blood? It's posted on here today.

Spitting can be nasty out of that B/C gap and I've learned my own painful lessons in the past. I'm with you on stopping use of that powder in that gun with that recipe. I assume that your other recipes don't cause the spitting. I think that means the spitting is not coming from misalignment or timing.

Poop happens.

Prescut

No I wasn't kidding. But I was mistaken now that I think about it. It was my left side. How did I get hit in the face? I was in an indoor range standing closer to the left side of the shooting stall. The kernels blasted out of the cylinder gap and bounced off the left stall wall. The electronic LCD screen to control target hanger looked like it took a load of rock salt. It took more than couple rounds before I realized what was going. Unburned kernels backed up under the extractor and locked up the gun. That's when I stopped, and realized there was an issue. The bench was covered with unburned powder. This is from 158's, magnum primer, and a heavy roll crimp. Charge was 14.5gr if memory serves me right. Then I went to bring in the target and noticed the controller was some how peppered. I went to wash my hands leaving the range, and noticed it wasn't only the controller that got peppered. It only took two or three cylinders to do all this. Now all that being said, I still love 4227 for magnum velocity, but I only load near max with heavy bullets.

 

[oddshooter]

slt223.

I do the same thing; I really don't download myself. I have many powders and try to pick the right one for the job at hand.

Once I have chosen my bullet,powder, and velocity; I make up 5 or 6 different recipes with a different powder amount in each.
It's perfect when my first 2 groups get smaller and my last 2 groups get larger. That clearly shows the effects of changing powder quantity; and which one is the best group.

Example:
10.0 gr gets 2"
10.5 gr gets 1"
11.0 gr gets .5"
11.5 gr gets 1"
12.0 gr gets 2"

11 gr is clearly the right amount of powder for that bullet/powder combo. Perfect bell curve. Not too little, not too much.

Prescut

 

[38SPL HV]

Rdub, just getting back to some reloading. Appreciate your threads, great info as always. I like 7.2grs Power Pistol with 158 gr swc (Rim Rock, .358) in my 4 5/8 inch Blackhawk. Very accurate and approx 1,100 FPS which fits a nice mid range load.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Just a note on HS-7/w751;

Not only is a good powder for medium to full 158 LSW bullets....

In my old M19 6", it did very well with the little 148gr HBwc bullets, too!!
Just that it took a LOT more powder, than the amount of Bullseye to get the same thing.....
but it was an interesting find.

 

[fredj338]

A solid performer & the rcbs is my fav lswc.

 

[fredj338]

Hi
I didn't shoot 2400 because I find it doesn't burn as clean with medium pressure loads. Although very accurate, I personally don't like to use it for anything less than max pressure loads.
The same goes for H-110 or 296. They are for max loads. In fact I don't use H-110 or 296 anymore in .357. I've switched to Alliant 300-MP.

I prefer 2400 to h110 because it will download well a bit off the top. Not so with h110. Not true midrange vel, but between mid & max. H110 is great for max loads, aboutb50fps gain over 2400 in most bullet wts. A bit more in 6" + bbls.

 

[cowboy4evr]

My go to everyday load in 357 using 158 gr cast bullets is 7 .5 hrs of Winchester super field . It's accurate , clean and great mid range 357 load . Great in K- frame 357's . Regards Paul

 

[Waldo]

RDub, that is a very interesting project. I have been reloading for about 40 years and have never tested that many powders at once. I have settled on 7.5 grs of Unique under a 158 gr LSWC in my .357s. I have shot it in a variety of guns and have been happy with it. Have you ever tried a similar project with a variety of guns and the used the same load to see how different guns like it? I have several .357s and have settled on one load for all of them, rather then experiment with a bunch of different powders and loads for each gun. That is probably not the best approach. But I think trying to figure out the best load and keeping track of which gun it is for, might be more work than I want. I shoot some of my .357s more than others, but try to get them all out occasionally. I recently acquired a Dan Wesson Pistol Pack with four barrels. The thought of trying to figure out a best load for each barrel intimidates me.

 

[dogdoc]

I have 12 or more pounds of promo/red dot so I plan on trying the 5 grains with a 158 cast bullet. Anybody load promo/red dot and chronographed?

 

[Eddietruett]

Good stuff, but a little fast for my tastes. I shoot most of my .357s in Model 19s. I like to keep the velocity in the area of 1000-1100 FPS. It’s tough to find a powder that really performs in that range. I’ve never considered Blue Dot, and I haven’t done much with AA5. I need to go back and do some more R&D.

My M19s have always done so well with 12.5-13.0 grs if 2400 it’s hard to get away from that, but it’s unnecessarily powerful for target shooting and may be a bit harder on my guns than a 1000 FPS load would be.

BTW, I agree that you might experiment with softer bullets, maybe bigger too. I have a friend who loads .359” in all his .357s.

Thanks for sharing your test results!

Try 5.0gr Universal with 158gr bullet. Also works great with 130gr as well. That has become my go to load with HyTek Coated Lead. Clean and if I remember right I think the 158 is doing around 900-1000 and the 130 a little faster. I shot many 158 SWC with this load and recently switched to SNS 158 TCFP and it shoots even more accurate. I have several guns that will put it in one ragged hole at 25 yards if I can do my part which is getting harder to do with age

 

[Univibe]

I load 158 grain cast SWC to about 1050 in my six inch 686. AA#5 powder meters well and is clean-burning. These mild-magnum loads are accurate and fun to shoot. When it's time to get serious, switch to AA#9 and push close to 1400.

 

[stan v]

Just a note on HS-7/w751;

Not only is a good powder for medium to full 158 LSW bullets....

In my old M19 6", it did very well with the little 148gr HBwc bullets, too!!
Just that it took a LOT more powder, than the amount of Bullseye to get the same thing.....
but it was an interesting find.

I've got 2 lbs of 571 and have wondered how to use it (gifted to me years ago), what medium loads are available for 158 gr cast to 12 BHN? I do have some 18 BHN HyTek stuff. 357 Mag

I reckon 571 may be perfect for my 27-2 and 586

 

[22shtur]

Thanks for the information posted. I also have the RCBS 150 gr mold and the Lyman 358477. I read about Clays Universal powder, and I sure like it for all my non high velocity magnum shooting.