38 Special expansion?

Cal44

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What 38 Special factory ammo is loaded with bullets that will actually expand when fired from a 2" snubby?

Most, if not all, of the ballistics gel tests on YouTube show little or no expansion from a 2" barrel.

Or are full wadcutters the way to go?
 
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All three of those look good, and should work well in my Ruger LCR.

But I was looking for a 38 Special standard special round for my M37 which isn't +P rated. I suppose the 37 would work with +P, but with all the cracked frames you see with old M37's I would rather use the standard pressure ammo.
 
I favor the Gold Dots but....

I favor the Gold Dots, but finding and affording them is another matter. Though the 135s are especially designed for short barrels, I think any Gold Dot is good if given decent velocity.
 
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The Speer Gold Dot is typically a robust expander. The Remington iteration of the FBI load also expands well provided the dreaded 4 layers of denim aren't involved. ;)
 
Here's a speer gold dot 125 grain shot from a 642 into water jugs. Not sure how accurate the test is though compared to ballistics gel. I also loaded some hard cast 148 grain wadcutters to full power to use in my snub 38's too.

7DFD326F-4EA7-40D3-A103-2BFB339B6260.jpg
 
FWITW, Here's what I use; 2" - 3" Bbl = Speer 135 GDHP+P 4" Bbl = Buffalo Bore 158 LSWC-HP+P ( They ARE full power loads, so beware ) There are many "decent" .38 Spl. loads available, but I don't think the above 2 loads can be beat for overall use. The BB loads can be a handfull, so I only use them in my 4" K frames. CCI / Speer (ATK) spent a good amount of money for R&D on their 135 loads, primarily at the behest of the NYPD & a few other large LE agencies that still issue, and or authorize the .38 Spl. caliber. The 135+P is also nice due to it's weight, as it's close enough to shoot to the sights of many fixed sight .38's. Most fixed .38's these days are factory set for either 125 or 158 grain heads, so the 135 is just right for both. As I said before, if you prefer, or have good results with other loads, stick with them, but the 2 above loads shouldn't let you down.

dpast32
 
The ONLY non-+P ammo that works that I know of is the.......
Hornady ammo.

I have a 125gr G Dot that never even started to open up out of my M49 snub nose into 4 jugs of water and came to rest at the partical board behind them at a distance of 10 feet for the first bottle.

+P speeds are needed to help get expansion started out of a snub nose, if you can use them.

I don't like 800 fps.......... 850 fps is better and I would like 900 fps with the 125gr if possible. I believe that is the area of the new Remington home defense ammo.
 
I have a 125gr G Dot that never even started to open up out of my M49 snub nose into 4 jugs of water and came to rest at the partical board behind them at a distance of 10 feet for the first bottle.

Good to know. I only fired that above one and no others into jugs. I might have to reevaluate my defense loads. Since it's so hard to find the GDSB I might just stick with my old fashioned full power hard cast wadcutters for now.
 
And it's not even the +P version.

The trouble with that video is they don't say what gun they used or the velocity.

There are other videos with Critical Defense where the author is using a 2" snubby where neither the 110 38 sp or the 110 38 sp+p expand at all.

I believe many of these 38 special (without the P) self defense rounds expand just find with a 4" barrel, but don't expand with a 2". Gold dot seems to be an exception, however.
 
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I found some of the 135 grain Gold Dot 38+P at $27 per box of 50. So I ordered four boxes.

I figured that would give me enough to practice with it before using it for carry.

It seems more reasonably priced that BB or other SD ammo.

Dave
 
The trouble with that video is they don't say what gun they used ....

On YouTube, the text below the video says "test revolver was the Taurus model 605 in .38/.357 with 2 inch barrel".
 
Four layers of denim is to introduce a worse case scenario to the round. Not to simulate four layers of denim on a human.


Here is some good info:

BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp

Cliffnotes:

While oversimplified, bare gelatin gives information about best case performance, while 4 layer denim provides data on worst case performance--in reality, the actual performance may be somewhere in between. The four layer denim test is NOT designed to simulate any type of clothing--it is simply an engineering test to assess the ability of a projectile to resist plugging and robustly expand. FWIW, one of the senior engineers at a very respected handgun ammunition manufacturer recently commented that bullets that do well in 4 layer denim testing have invariably worked well in actual officer involved shooting incidents.

With few exceptions, the vast majority of .38 Sp JHP's fail to expand when fired from 2" barrels in the 4 layer denim test. Many of the lighter JHP's demonstrate overexpansion and insufficient penetration in bare gel testing. Also, the harsher recoil of the +P loads in lightweight J-frames tends to minimize practice efforts and decrease accuracy for many officers. The 158 gr +P LSWCHP offers adequate penetration, however in a 2" revolver the 158gr +P LSWCHP does not reliably expand. If it fails to expand, it will produce less wound trauma than a WC. Target wadcutters offer good penetration, cut tissue efficiently, and have relatively mild recoil. With wadcutters harder alloys and sharper leading edges are the way to go. Wadcutters perform exactly the same in both bare and 4 layer denim covered gel when fired from a 2" J-frame.

Currently, the Speer Gold Dot 135 gr +P JHP, Winchester 130 gr bonded +P JHP (RA38B), and Barnes 110 gr XPB all copper JHP (for ex. in the Corbon DPX loading) offer the most reliable expansion we have seen from a .38 sp 2" BUG; Hornady 110 gr standard pressure and +P Critical Defense loads also offer good performance out of 2" barrel revolvers.
 
On YouTube, the text below the video says "test revolver was the Taurus model 605 in .38/.357 with 2 inch barrel".

OK, I couldn't see that when I clicked the link in your post.

It makes sense they would tell you the type of gun they used somewhere.

Here is another test of the 110 gr Critical Defense that shows no expansion at all:

Hornady Critical Defense 38 Special 110 Grain FTX - YouTube

Not sure what to make of conflicting results like this.

Dave
 
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