S&W HE
Member
Please provide your recommendation(s) for a .38 S&W Special self defense reload. It's for a 1960s Model 37 so I believe +P reloads are out.
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.38 Special Self Defense Reloads
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Paul5388
US Veteran
I believe any Smith with a model number is rated for +P (http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson2/upload/other/S&W_Revolver_Manual_01-30-2011.pdf page 11). That said, I use a Hornady 148 gr HBWC loaded upside down with 3.5 gr of Bullesye.
I have no qualms about using handloads for defense, since I don't believe I can make something deadly even more deadly.
I have no qualms about using handloads for defense, since I don't believe I can make something deadly even more deadly.
Water-Man
US Veteran
You might try the Buffalo Bore Standard Pressure Short Barrel loads.
You what to load them yourself yes??
I would say most here on this forum like lead bullets, I like the Speer Gold Dot HP's in 125 or 135 if you can find them. Loaded to max level from the Speer manual (not the +P) with whatever powder you have that is listed. They all will work. There are endless combinations but in the overall scheme of things(at 10 feet or less) does it make any difference?
Slower powders will work a little better from short barrels.
running iron
US Veteran
I like the 135-140gr JHP bullets too. But for expansion at the slower velocities of the non+P loads I have been loading 110gr Sierra Blitz JHP. They can be driven fast enough for good expansion. But nothing I have reloaded works better than the Winchester 110 gr. Silver Tip bullet. Very good design for the regular 38 special in a snub nose.
Paul5388, a huge THANK YOU for the link. I have a '61 M10, was iffy on +p. You sir, have made my night.
I had purchased Hornady 125 gr XTP for standard pressure as it was the best non +p I could find locally, and then was gifted with a couple boxes of Nyclads this weekend from my dad.
I had purchased Hornady 125 gr XTP for standard pressure as it was the best non +p I could find locally, and then was gifted with a couple boxes of Nyclads this weekend from my dad.
David Sinko
Member
My Model 64 snub prefers rather sedate loads and I find that I get highest velocity with plated bullets. I can exceed 900 FPS with the Frontier 158 gr. FP and Power Pistol and still get easy extraction. Accuracy is outstanding. This is a +P load but your 37 is definitely tougher than my 64.
Dave Sinko
Dave Sinko
Broker50
Member
I'm an old Geezer, & I have come to the conclusion the one & only 38 Spl load I load anymore will do anything I need a 38 Spl to do. It's kind of a mild +P load, a 158 gr hardcast SWC over 5.0 gr Unique & a std primer. I don't worry about it expanding, the sharp shoulder is enough to do the job, with the proper shot placement, & there's ample penetration to get to an off switch.
Broker50
Member
What am I missing? Isn't a 64 an steel stainless K-frame, & a 37 an airweight J-frame?
Paul5388
US Veteran
Elmer Keith made the comment that 5 shot J frame is tougher than its K frame counterpart mainly due to the cylinder having the locking notch placed other than over the chamber. He didn't see anything wrong with .38/44 loads in the J frames and actually tested a couple of them for wear with heavy loads. It's in Sixguns, if you care to look.
I think the strength issue with alloy j-frames is cracking the frame
rather than actually blowing up the cylinder. I have a cigar box full of
148gr cast BBWCs of unknown make that resemble the Speer BBWC
and load to a similar OAL. So I worked up a couple of loads with the
goal of 820fps from my 37-2 at standard pressure. Federal brass, 4.0
grs Bullseye, Win SP primer = 819fps avg with ES of 10fps. 4.3grs of
Win 231, Win SPM primer = 817fps with ES of 12fps. Velocities are
at about 10 1/2ft from the muzzle of my 37 using a Pro Chrono
digital chronograph. Both loads are well below the maximum standard
pressure loads in the Speer # 13 manual for their BBWC.
rather than actually blowing up the cylinder. I have a cigar box full of
148gr cast BBWCs of unknown make that resemble the Speer BBWC
and load to a similar OAL. So I worked up a couple of loads with the
goal of 820fps from my 37-2 at standard pressure. Federal brass, 4.0
grs Bullseye, Win SP primer = 819fps avg with ES of 10fps. 4.3grs of
Win 231, Win SPM primer = 817fps with ES of 12fps. Velocities are
at about 10 1/2ft from the muzzle of my 37 using a Pro Chrono
digital chronograph. Both loads are well below the maximum standard
pressure loads in the Speer # 13 manual for their BBWC.
David Sinko
Member
As Paul5388 says, your J Frame .38 is tougher than my K Frame 38. I have done a lot of loading for both of these frame sizes and the Model 64 is definitely the weak link. In the long run, the Airweight frame will probably wear more quickly but the five shot steel cylinder is stronger than the six shot steel cylinder. Your Model 37 can safely handle ANY .38 Special factory loads, to include +P and +P+.
If you are willing to carry handloads for self defense, the two reasons I can think of are to save money and improve on the performance of factory loads. All factory loaded .38 Special that I have ever shot over the chrono (with the exception of the magic Buffalo Bore +P load) have produced very low velocities out of a 2" barrel. You will be able to gain quite a bit in velocity through careful handloading. Frankly, it's not worth the effort with many of the later cartridges, but I believe it's still a worthwhile endeavor with the .38 Special.
Dave Sinko
If you are willing to carry handloads for self defense, the two reasons I can think of are to save money and improve on the performance of factory loads. All factory loaded .38 Special that I have ever shot over the chrono (with the exception of the magic Buffalo Bore +P load) have produced very low velocities out of a 2" barrel. You will be able to gain quite a bit in velocity through careful handloading. Frankly, it's not worth the effort with many of the later cartridges, but I believe it's still a worthwhile endeavor with the .38 Special.
Dave Sinko
acl864
Member
+1
I use a similar load except with a 148 gr. DEWC.
I'm also of the opinion that "old Geezers" sometimes know a thing or two if you take the time to listen
Broker50
Member
Hard for me to wrap my head around that, Dave. While I agree in theory abut the cylinder, I believe the Airweight frame will not hold up to a steady diet of heavy loads as well as the steel K-frame. I think the Airweight will stretch &/or crack at the barrel threads way before the steel frame will. I'm not a huge fan of trying to make one caliber do more than it should either. My feeling, if you need more than a 38 Spl has to offer, go to a bigger caliber, but that's just me.
Paul5388
US Veteran
A self defense load really isn't something that needs to be shot with great frequency. As many do with K frames, use lesser loads for the bulk of their practice.
The way the S&W manual is written, the only prohibited guns for +P are the pre-model number K frames. The rest are good to go with +P.
The way the S&W manual is written, the only prohibited guns for +P are the pre-model number K frames. The rest are good to go with +P.
Paul5388: I agree with you but will a jury of your " peers ". I had some fired/expanded black talons at a gun show and had many comments that " shooting someone with that would really hurt them ?? " You Think?? I asked if they shot their friends for fun?? These were "gun" people!!! It defies logic until you remember that logic/common sense has nothing to do with it, like the anti gunners arguments. Be Safe,
Paul5388
US Veteran
We've had this argument many times on this forum and it all has to do with where you are and whether the Grand Jury will even indict you. They don't jump through hoops around here to indict people for things like shooting intruders, so I'm not real concerned about the scenario.
48 spl
Paul: It is very unlikely that a grand jury would indite here, I look at the civil suit where the "cracked actor" gets by my Rotts and forces me to defend my self- and the attorney makes the case that he was the sole "provider" for his family!! I figure with all the good factory options available , this just removes one more- "hair trigger" "malice" etc. I do respect and understand your opinion. Be Safe.
Paul: It is very unlikely that a grand jury would indite here, I look at the civil suit where the "cracked actor" gets by my Rotts and forces me to defend my self- and the attorney makes the case that he was the sole "provider" for his family!! I figure with all the good factory options available , this just removes one more- "hair trigger" "malice" etc. I do respect and understand your opinion. Be Safe.
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