.38 SPL vs. .357 Magnum in Back-Up Revolver

[giants1]

I have a serious newbie question here.

For a back-up .357 Magnum revolver ("a get off me gun" as I believe Massad Ayoob terms it), I'm reading that many prefer .38 SPL +P, especially the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel, to .357 Magnums even in their .357 Magnum J-frames, but I'm not understanding why. For example, Massad carries a department-issued S&W M&P 340 as back up while he's on duty which is a .357 Magnum revolver.

I know that Hornady makes a Critical Defense cartridge in .357 Magnum. Because the back-up revolver would be a last resort weapon, you'd want as much stopping power as possible, and it would be deployed only at a very close range, why wouldn't .357 Magnum cartridge be better and preferred by more?

 

[ispcapt]

There's no way to explain it where a person can understand it without experiencing it. We can tell you the answer is because of the recoil of the .357 rd. But until you experience it you really won't understand it fully. The only way to understand the answer is to borrow someone's .357 J frame, load it will full power .357 mag ammo and using a 1 hand close in hold fire off a few rounds. The answer will quickly become obvious.

 

[mikerjf]

Also kinda true, the closer you are the less stopping power you need.

The farther the shot, the more you want something controllable.

 

[Racer X]

I personally, will opt for a .357 revolver over a .38 +P rated revolver, assuming it is the same revolver model, simply because, maybe, someday, I might want to shoot .357 Mag.

But yes, for a medium to small revolver, Get Off Me, .38 +P short barrel formula load. Speer Gold Dots short barrel are a great option for short barrel rounds. I use them in a 3.1" little 9mm KelTec.

 

[Doug M.]

Accurate is more important than raw ballistic power. What you need is functional accuracy under bad conditions, potentially one handed, exhausted from a fight, and likely injured. J frames are not ergonomically friendly, so anything you do to overcome that is your friend. When I had a .38 J frame (or similar) I carried it with garden variety wadcutters and SWC for reloads.

There are people who can perform well with a .357 J frame. I'm not one of them, and the odds of there being as many as 10 members the forum who are one of those people are darned slight.

 

[giants1]

I personally, will opt for a .357 revolver over a .38 +P rated revolver, assuming it is the same revolver model, simply because, maybe, someday, I might want to shoot .357 Mag.

But yes, for a medium to small revolver, Get Off Me, .38 +P short barrel formula load. Speer Gold Dots short barrel are a great option for short barrel rounds. I use them in a 3.1" little 9mm KelTec.

Thanks, everyone!

Racer X, in general (not just talking about J-frames) the .357 Magnums are at most only a couple hundred dollar more when new than .38 SPLs, when .38 SPLs are in stock out here (California).

As a parallel, the barely used 649-5 I bought last week was only $700, vs a used 642 1-3/8" snub nose in .38 SPL for $800.

I figure that another benefit is that the .357s are heavier, reducing recoil when shooting .38 SPL and, like you said, give me the option of shooting .357 Magnum and .38 SPL +P.

 

[Laketime]

I would strongly suggest a .44 special snub nose like a Charter Arms to back up a full size revolver. I know you lose the same ammo argument but none the less.

 

[Marshal Tom]

This is a last ditch effort situation so in reality it probably doesn't matter all that much but, a .38 sp. like the one mentioned above might be the best choice for this situation. The obvious choice is to shoot them better when farther away! If you are more comfortable with a .357 then go for it.

 

[giants1]

I would strongly suggest a .44 special snub nose like a Charter Arms to back up a full size revolver. I know you lose the same ammo argument but none the less.

Thanks. I have never seen .44 SPL ammo available out here, much less .44 Magnum.

However, there's a snub-nose 629 or 29 for sale at the LGS for about $1,400.

 

[Racer X]

Just to clarify, for many who might not know. Many manufacturers make both .38 Special, .38 Special +P, and .357 Mag on the same "frame" or "series" So opting for a .357 Mag isn't going to make it bigger or likely heavier. The cylinder will be chambered longer. I just checked, and a Ruger SP-101 comes in both .38 special +P, or you can order a .357 Mag model, same size/weight, everything. Same MSRP. Actually, there is a .357 mag with a spurless hammer. That's something to think about with a "Get off Me" firearm. Good purse gun, but heavy.

Be safe!

I have a Ruger GP-100 4" .357 Mag that will be shooting .38 Special light target reloads 98+% of the time. We go hiking in Washington bear/cougar territory, my partner will have medium loaded .357 Mag. It's her "Get off me Bear/Cougar" gun. I have 10mm semi autos.

 

[Heinz]

A 629 is a pretty awesome revolver. It would preform well with +P, or magnums if you can. What are you backing up?

 

[Racer X]

A 629 is a pretty awesome revolver. It would preform well with +P, or magnums if you can. What are you backing up?

Oh heck yeah. a heavy 44 SPL slug into the torso anywhere is going to do the job. It's what my brother in law carries. I think it's a short Ruger.

 

[Laketime]

Thanks. I have never seen .44 SPL ammo available out here, much less .44 Magnum.

However, there's a snub-nose 629 or 29 for sale at the LGS for about $1,400.

Those would both make a great primary choice.

 

[Old cop]

I was forced to use my issued .38 more than once during my career & it did its job. In my experience .357 loads are best reserved for K Frames.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I carry a Kimber K6 as a primary. I put 12 rounds of the hottest 357 rounds I could find. While I could control the gun, it hurt like hell.

My job has taken its toll on me over the years. But thankfully I don’t have arthritis in my hands. Yet. And I don’t want it either. So I’m loaded with 38 +P and a couple of speed strips as backup.

I can hit effectively at 15 yards and closer. I’m good with that.

 

[Kanewpadle]

More power isn’t always good.

 

[StakeOut]

Which can "you" use to put the most rounds on target in the least amount of time.
Marksmanship trumps all.

 

[Heinz]

I carry a Kimber K6 as a primary. I put 12 rounds of the hottest 357 rounds I could find. While I could control the gun, it hurt like hell.

My job has taken its toll on me over the years. But thankfully I don’t have arthritis in my hands. Yet. And I don’t want it either. So I’m loaded with 38 +P and a couple of speed strips as backup.

I can hit effectively at 15 yards and closer. I’m good with that.

So, If the Kimber and the Smith as a New York reload, plus 2 speed strips don't work you should have brought a friend.

 

[Pisgah]

Truly, if you have to ask this question there is no way it can adequately be explained. A person can practice enough to overcome some pretty fierce commotion from a handgun, but when things happen fast and up-close -- which they are if you're needing the backup -- most folks will prefer something less-challenging that is still very effective if the right load is used. It's all a matter of comparing the percentages to your own satisfaction. If you know absolutely that the magnum loads will be no problem for you, using them makes sense.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

There are people who can perform well with a .357 J frame. I'm not one of them, and the odds of there being as many as 10 members the forum who are one of those people are darned slight.

My favorite quote of the day!

It was either Massad Ayoob or Clint Smith, I think the former, who said the J-frame type guns, especially alloys, are designed to be shot a little and carried a lot.

Small guns using extra powerful ammunition yields diminishing returns and they hurt your hands, never mind hurting your ability to get off a second shot in a fight.

Whether carried on a belt or in a pocket this M649 can go virtually everywhere and stoked with five rounds of Winchester Silvertip HPs in .38 Special I expect it will be of great assistance in almost any nasty situation that I might encounter.

As noted many times, if I find myself going somewhere that will present a large amount of targets of opportunity to the evil and/or the deranged, think malls, houses of worship, etc., then I switch to a higher capacity 9mm. Otherwise, I'm happy with the .38 Special in an all steel revolver.

As an aside, and I have also often noted that I am not a .44 Magnum fan, but such guns loaded with .44 Specials are awesome self defense guns, they are not, even in the 3" M629 class, readily concealable for most people.

Which brings me to the original post - the OP said "back-up". I'm actually discussing a primary concealed carry gun; I don't tote two guns around as a regular thing and I'm not talking about woods walking or hunting where I would most certainly open carry a K frame or an L frame.

If the J frame is a backup what is the primary weapon?