.38 Spl. vs 9mm for CC

[white cloud]

I am constantly amazed by how much energy goes into the caliber-revolver vs auto CCW debate. It seems to me that tactics, awareness and marksmanship are the most important things to get nailed down. Obsessing over equipment choices cuts down on the time one has to practice your draw or reloading skills. If I had a choice between the latest "whatever" and some more ammo to practice with, I would chose ammo. But then again I am old and probably getting soft in the head.

 

[Tanners Owner]

For me, it's less the caliber (9mm or 38 spl) than it is the platform. Have compact 9mms and revolvers that I am comfortable hitting where I aim. There are guns in either caliber that just don't work for me, given my carry style, adequate grips for my hands, and adequate sights for my eyes. If "man and machine" don't mate, then it's irrelevant what caliber it is.

I'm comfortable with either caliber for my self defense

 

[pittpa]

For me the issue is crystal clear. I prefer the snubby to any semi-auto for the obvious reason there are no failures to feed... ever.

Look up "bullet jump", which was a factor in my 9mm revolver Ammo selection. One particular round was most of the way out of the case after 4 rounds fired. It

could have easily pulled it right out.


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[forrestinmathews]

I am constantly amazed by how much energy goes into the caliber-revolver vs auto CCW debate. It seems to me that tactics, awareness and marksmanship are the most important things to get nailed down. Obsessing over equipment choices cuts down on the time one has to practice your draw or reloading skills. If I had a choice between the latest "whatever" and some more ammo to practice with, I would chose ammo. But then again I am old and probably getting soft in the head.

Practice a smooth draw that allows you to get on the sights and trigger quickly for a first round hit. This doesn't take a hundred years of constant practice. I have a variety of carry guns that are all very similar. The holsters are also very similar. 9mm is a seasonal choice for me as is .38. Reloading is a very polished skill of mine as is malfunction clearing.
Basically it's a forum and folks like to talk about things. If they don't then it's boring. When I get tired of the same old story I go out back and shoot a little. Then I come back and post my results for the educational​ benefit of the curious.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Look up "bullet jump", which was a factor in my 9mm revolver Ammo selection. One particular round was most of the way out of the case after 4 rounds fired. It

could have easily pulled it right out.


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To be fair, you're using a 9mm as an example. Not exactly a revolver cartridge. Valid information for the snubnosed shooters. I crimp the heck out of my 9mm in a revolver. Mine have to ride seven shots without pulling and i still get slight pulling in an N Frame 929.

 

[pittpa]

To be fair, you're using a 9mm as an example. Not exactly a revolver cartridge. Valid information for the snubnosed shooters..

That's what the owner of the Ammo company said. He also said they glue the bullets in 357 Sig, IIRC. But they won't do it for 9mm for revolvers due to the low demand.


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[growr]

This has been written about in every gun magazine (not clip) for over 50 years or more....seems like in every other issue...

Use what you are competent with and move on!

Randy

 

[forrestinmathews]

That's what the owner of the Ammo company said. He also said they glue the bullets in 357 Sig, IIRC. But they won't do it for 9mm for revolvers due to the low demand.


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And NO. They don't glue them. The taper crimp them because in a magazine fed gun they are down much lower in the weapon, below the reciprocation and not subject to the same torque as in a revolver.

 

[pittpa]

And NO. They don't glue them. The taper crimp them because....

How would you know this , not knowing the company and their process?
EDIT: I looked up the email. It was from Peter Pi, the president and CEO of Corbin/Glaser. Here is what he had to say, in response to my inquiry about bullet pull in a revolver-
"The 9mm cartridge is designed to head space on the case mouth. That means you cannot put a heavy crimp on the bullet to eliminate bullet pull. Actually the round is designed to eliminate bullet setback during feeding in an auto pistol. Revolver cartridges like the 38 Spec and 357 Mag headspace on the rim and you can put a heavy crimp on the case mouth to eliminate bullet pull. The only way this can be totally eliminated is to glue the bullet in place and we have to do this with the 357 Sig because it has a short neck and headspace on the case mouth and cannot use a crimp. As 9mm revolvers become more prevalent we may have to resort to glueing the bullets, but we are currently not doing it. "




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[Walkingwolf]

You should be able to use a 38 S&W roll crimp die to put a roll crimp an any 9mm round. I have not had a problem .40 S&W in a CA Pitbull, not sure why there would be a difference between the 9mm, and the 40.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Sorry I didn't realize that you were talking about a boutique manufacturer. Maybe if you had told me I couldn't roll a semi auto case 80,000 rounds ago I'd believe it. I've run way too many 9/40/45's rolled to even care. As long as you don't cut the plating you're fine.

 

[TomkinsSP]

1. Dave shoots a M38 better than a G26, Earl shoots a G26 better than an M38. Adam can't hit the broadside of a barn with either. Steve hits all tens with both. So..... Dave should CCW the 38, Earl the 26, Steve should buy the one he likes most and Adam should pal around with Dave, Earl or David. Carl should try 'em all and decide for himself rather than watching youboob.
2. Cartridges should be roll crimped (especially if fired in revolvers) the crimp provides a gentle brake when the powder is ignited allowing for a consistent pressure to be reached before the bullet begins its journey down the barrel. If you have ever used a single stage reloading press you would have noticed the inconsistent amount of pressure required to seat bullets. If you have taper crimped ammunition you would also note the inconsistent amounts of pressure required on your lever to complete each round. A roll crimp into a groove or over the end of a wadcutter simply provides a consistent start. Obviously you cant roll crimp ammo you feed to any firearm that headspaces on the case mouth. But feeding taper or uncrimped ammo to a revolver (especially a light revolver, in a load with brisk recoil) is an invitation to an ammunition caused malfunction.

 

[fdw]

I thought this was a good video and enjoyed it. I have a Ruger SP101, shield 45 and LCP custom that gets carried depending on where I'm going and what I'm wearing. Used to have a M&P 9 Compact (wish I still had it). If it's the SP101 it is loaded with 38s.

In regards to the video, the power of the cartridge is really not a factor for me. I feel like the 38 or 9 will get the job done. On the accuracy, I feel comfortable shooting any of the guns mentioned above so that is not really a factor.

Regarding reliability of an autoloader vs a revolver. Revolver would be my choice. In the end though, the determining factor for me is capacity and reloading. So my choice is an autoloader most of the time. Although it is very unlikely that I will ever have to use my gun and even more unlikely that I'll need more than 5 rounds... with the way things are today in this world, I feel better with more rounds and a quicker reload...

 

[fatcat3]

what are you doing in you pocket that makes you afraid of a long double action 5-8 lbs trigger pull

 

[forrestinmathews]

what are you doing in you pocket that makes you afraid of a long double action 5-8 lbs trigger pull

When you're smiling...the whole world smiles with you...

 

[gsn]

For civilian self defense the revolver is the perfect gun and the 9mm is the perfect caliber however, ANY revolver in any caliber will have at least twice the amount of ammo anyone would ever need (you more than likely will need none) and any revolver will be deadly accurate at the usual distance which is roughly arms length.

The revolver is always ready, always reliable and can always be effectively and responsibly used by anyone, myself included.

For civilian self defense NOT law enforcement or military use/ gun battles the above cannot be intelligently disputed.

With regard to jump crimp in light 9mm revolvers-we have been unable to experience or even cause this phenomena in many many rounds of all makes-brass/steel or aluminum.

Not disputing anyone who says it happens its just that we cannot get it to, and by the way-if you will never need a full cylinder of any caliber what difference does it make anyway.

 

[shouldazagged]

I've carried both, and .40. For some years now I've felt quite comfortable with .38 Special, the FBI load or its equivalent. I like revolvers.

 

[rwsmith]

Some things to factor in....

The chance of multiple attackers seems greater these days.

Often people are very wired on drugs.

Both revolvers and semis have a few great advantages over each other and more small ones.

Probably the two biggest differences is that a revolver is much more reliable and the semi has more capacity.

I think it somewhat depends on the situation you are likely to encounter in your environs.

Any gun is better than none.

 

[TomkinsSP]

For civilian self defense the revolver is the perfect gun and the 9mm is the perfect caliber however, ANY revolver in any caliber will have at least twice the amount of ammo anyone would ever need (you more than likely will need none) and any revolver will be deadly accurate at the usual distance which is roughly arms length.

The revolver is always ready, always reliable and can always be effectively and responsibly used by anyone, myself included.

For civilian self defense NOT law enforcement or military use/ gun battles the above cannot be intelligently disputed.

With regard to jump crimp in light 9mm revolvers-we have been unable to experience or even cause this phenomena in many many rounds of all makes-brass/steel or aluminum.

Not disputing anyone who says it happens its just that we cannot get it to, and by the way-if you will never need a full cylinder of any caliber what difference does it make anyway.

I agree with most of what you say. My question is how is 9mm (Parabellum I assume) perfect. Around here you can buy 9Para FMJ for cheap. But the quality stuff is about the same as 38 and 357. The bullet doesnt know if it was loaded in a .380, .38 (spl or super), 9mm, or .357 case...

 

[gsn]

Perfect in our opinion for a few reasons:

the 9 is shorter than the .38/.357-shorter, I think, means that the round develops all or nearly all of its energy inside rather than producing a spectacular flame ball with the .38 and a truly spectacular flame ball with the .357

we can buy about 1.5 9mm for the cost of a .38 and two 9mm for the cost of a .357-even more if I get the Buffalo Bore stuff.

9mm is still the most popular caliber on the planet-availability has been and should remain much better than all others.

I certainly could be in error with regard to caliber though what we see with .38/.357 that is not present with the 9mm makes me believe we are correct.

What I am certain of is that all 'we' need is a revolver, any caliber up to and including the fine 9- to be as protected as any civilian can be.

 

[gsn]

I can't help but to wonder how different the recent events would have turned out if only one person had been armed and had the resolve to act.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Perfect in our opinion for a few reasons:

the 9 is shorter than the .38/.357-shorter, I think, means that the round develops all or nearly all of its energy inside rather than producing a spectacular flame ball with the .38 and a truly spectacular flame ball with the .357

we can buy about 1.5 9mm for the cost of a .38 and two 9mm for the cost of a .357-even more if I get the Buffalo Bore stuff.

9mm is still the most popular caliber on the planet-availability has been and should remain much better than all others.

I certainly could be in error with regard to caliber though what we see with .38/.357 that is not present with the 9mm makes me believe we are correct.

What I am certain of is that all 'we' need is a revolver, any caliber up to and including the fine 9- to be as protected as any civilian can be.

I am totally on-board with a 5 shot, 2 inch revolver with a .357" bore. And if you love the 9. Cool, I have a 940, love it. But not any more than my 640. If the price of commercial ammo is lower enough to justify the higher cost of the lower sales volume firearm, then that makes economic sense for you. Since I reload, I can tell you there is no difference in cost of reloading .38 or 9mm. The amount of powder used to achive the maximum possible performance in 2" bores in either is virtually the same. The amount of fast burning powder doesn't come near filling Georg's case. Doesn't come near filling the 9 Kurtz (.380) either. Since I am not going to put them in one of those fad auto-loading-pistols, I roll crimp all 3. I do have a Taurus 380, its cylinder is considerably shorter making it lighter and more compact. I load 75 and 100 grain with the same quantity of BE as the same projectiles in 38 or Parabellum. And get the same results from 2 inch barrels. There is one thing you can do with the .38 spl or .357 cases you can't do with 9. Use a bulky powder like TB or 2400. But I just see 'em as pretty much the same. (But better than .311 .400 or .421.);-)

 

[ISCS Yoda]

An endless debate. Always fun, especially if someone waxes emotional.

I do think I could shoot one of my snubby .38s as well, if not better, than any 9mm I own of similar size. But I don't compare the two; I prefer revolvers but, presently, with some back and hip issues, I switched to a flat gun.

As a matter of fact, I was in a hurry the other day so the first gun I grabbed was a Walther P-22. It fits nicely in the Bianchi #100 holster designed for my CS-45. Ten rounds, and I wasn't worried about being under gunned.

When I had time I got my recently acquired CS-9 out. Seven plus one so I can't argue that it doesn't beat my K frame snubbie in the firepower department. But when I feel better the 2" wheelgun will be back on my hip.

38 Special versus 9mm doesn't really cause me to think much one way or the other.

 

[TomkinsSP]

Having 8 rounds (1911) or 14 (P35) or 13 (G26) is an advantage over having 5 (J) or 6, only if you miss a lot. Unless you get jumped by BOTH the Jets and Sharks.

 

[forrestinmathews]

Having 8 rounds (1911) or 14 (P35) or 13 (G26) is an advantage over having 5 (J) or 6, only if you miss a lot. Unless you get jumped by BOTH the Jets and Sharks.

I hear snapping in the distance and it's getting closer.

 

[johnnyappleseed]

Since I don't own a 9mm but do own a 38+p snubbie it's the snubbie for me. In reality I carry a palm sized 22 magnum revolver more than anything because of comfort and ease of concealment. If I figure I need more power I can go with a 357 magnum.