.38 Super questions

[tlawler]

I will be getting my first .38 Super pistol in a few days and picked up some dies and brass to start loading for it. I wanted to start out with a 124 grain lead flat point that I’ve had good luck with in .357sig. I picked them because I have a good supply of powder coated projectiles on hand. Everything else I have in LRN .356 is “as cast” and I’ll need to powder coat first.

Anyway, my question is: Can I seat the FP 124 gr. shorter than a LRN as long as I maintain the same case volume?

The FP measures .032” shorter than the LRN. My Lee manual calls for an O.A.L. of 1.27” for the LRN, so I should be able to seat the FP to 1.235”-1.24” and have the same usable volume as the LRN, and I’m assuming similar pressures. I sized and loaded a .357 Golden Saber 125 gr.I had lying around and seated it using Hornady data for the XTP which shows an O.A.L. of 1.20”. The GS is only .013” shorter than the LRN, so more case volume is used and pressures would be higher. At what point does case volume vs pressure become an issue?

My reason for asking is that to get a good crimp, I need to seat it to just above the top lube groove, otherwise I crimp into the groove and it doesn’t look right. I’m using a Lee taper crimp.

Are these projectiles ok to use in this application? Or should I just PC some .356 LRN and stick with them? You guys that shoot .38 Super, what projectiles do you use? And what powders do you like? I was going to start with 5.5 grains W231 under these powder coated FP’s.

 

[scott1970]

My Lyman cast bullet manual shows an OAL of 1.250" for a cast 124 gr. FP, so I don't see where there'd be any issues going just below that. I've loaded that particular bullet in .38 Super in the past and had no issues. I checked to see if I have any on hand right now, but everything I have loaded is cast 130 gr. RN.

I'm a huge Super fan. It's always been the easiest loading caliber I've worked with. And every powder I've tried has always performed very well. So, what .38 Super have you acquired?

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The .38 Super Auto cartridge is pretty easy to load for as long as some basics are understood:

1. The case body is truly cylindrical, not tapered as most semi-auto cartridges are.

2. The .38 Super is a semi-rimmed design, having a case head rim larger than the case body diameter. This can allow for two different methods of establishing headspace; (a) headspace on the case mouth, as is common for most semi-auto straight cases, or (b) headspace on the case rim. Choosing between the two methods should probably be based on actual performance in your individual pistol, but headspacing on the rim would allow greater flexibility in case mouth crimping which might be advantageous with some powders and bullet combinations.

3. Considerable variations will be found in actual bore and groove diameters. While SAAMI specs call for .355" jacketed bullets, and .356" lead bullets are commonly used, some pistols may do very well with .357" or .358" bullets (my own pistol handles .358" cast SWC designs intended for .38/.357 revolver loads, but others may not accept such loads).

4. Crimping may or may not be a significant factor with your pistol and load combinations. As mentioned above, having two choices in headspacing methods allows you a great deal of flexibility. My personal approach has always been to crimp only sufficiently to remove the flaring required for bullet seating and restore case mouth diameter to proper specification, and that allows me to headspace on the case mouth without dealing with headspace at the rim (which can be problematic with some pistols; that "semi-rim" is not as effective as a full rim design in revolver ammo).

I think you are basically correct with your assumption that differing OALs with lead bullets of RN or FP design will provide comparable pressures as long as internal case volumes remain the same, however the best approach will be to work up each load separately before arbitrarily deciding that the same powder charges can be applied. Any time a component is changed it is best to start over at the bottom of the charts and work up to a load that is functional, safe, and accurate.

As with any other production handgun, variations in chamber dimensions, bore and groove dimensions, and other critical machining results will have to be accounted for when loading ammunition for that pistol. Modern handguns are usually quite uniform, but all will exhibit some degree of manufacturing tolerances. Best to use what you have to best advantage rather than relying on published "nominal" dimensions.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Look at Hodgdons for a 124gr plated FP @ 1.250": by loading 5.1gr WIN 231 you are right in their middle range.

Depending upon how they feed in your new pistol(?) I wouldn't think you have to worry about finding an OAL that will work, + or - a bit...?

Cheers!

 

[tlawler]

Thanks for the quick replies. I know I can always count on you guys for good information. The gun is a 1981 Colt 70 series 1911 built by Wilson Combat. It comes with the comp, VZ grips and Zeiss red dot...and hopefully in my hands by Wednesday!

 

[jcelect]

Bullets

For those that are shooting the 38 Super and are having trouble finding .356 bullets, go to Lee for a push thru sizing die! If you get one you can use any bullet made for the .357/38 guns! I use 160gr lead TC powder coated! Resizing will not do anything to the powder coating but shine it up a little!
My 38 Super for bowling pins!

You were expecting a bottom feeder? Not from me!
jcelect

 

[Cdog]

Congratulations on your Series 70.

I've owned several 1911's chambered for your round. The majority of them have been versatile in their acceptance of a wide selection of bullets. Mostly for improved load densities I've always used powders on the slower side of the burn rate spectrum. They also tend to be more forgiving.

Due to the wide selection of projectile shapes, sizes and weights my seating depth is seldom based on overall length. As you posted, actual bullet depth inside the brass is my first concern. I want enough inside to ensure reliability without crowding my combustion chamber. Flat nose projectiles are usually easy to work within your magazine's preferences too.

I don't recall loading any .358", but I've successfully used from 115 gr .355" through 158 gr .357" in the Super.

Handloading has offered me the ability to enjoy the .38 Super and other fine calibers I may have otherwise passed over.

 

[Cdog]

For those that are shooting the 38 Super and are having trouble finding .356 bullets, go to Lee for a push thru sizing die! If you get one you can use any bullet made for the .357/38 guns! I use 160gr lead TC powder coated! Resizing will not do anything to the powder coating but shine it up a little!
My 38 Super for bowling pins!

You were expecting a bottom feeder? Not from me!
jcelect

"Like" just ain't nearly enough for your post.

I love it!

 

[scott1970]

Thanks for the quick replies. I know I can always count on you guys for good information. The gun is a 1981 Colt 70 series 1911 built by Wilson Combat. It comes with the comp, VZ grips and Zeiss red dot...and hopefully in my hands by Wednesday!

That's a sweet looking gun.

I did some horse trading a couple of months ago, and I ended up with a total of $425 in this 1975 production Colt Series 70 .38 Super.

My favorite Super is probably my Sig P220, though.