38 vs 357 - risk factors

[t0073]

I have a 1992 classic 38 Special (no +P), my one and only, concealed carry 99% of the time. It has come to my attention that a model 640 357 weighs only one ounce more, and of course has considerably more horsepower. I worry, however, about the possibility, with all that extra horsepower, if a 357 JHP might pass through the bad guy and kill a bystander behind him. Would greatly appreciate your input.

 

[superfluities]

Stick with what you have now it has plenty of torque.

 

[Graywolf586]

Hi' I buy all my revolvers in 357 mag and from time to time I shoot 357 mag just for fun and practice, but 99% of the time I carry 38 spl or 38+p ammo usually Hornady Critical Defense or Remington Ultimate Defense.

 

[Fishinfool]

In the .357 mag, stick to 125 grain hollow points. The gold standard for stopping power during the police revolver era, and still at the top of the list. Some guys like heavier bullets, even SWC's, but they increase penetration, something you are looking to avoid, and offer no benefit in stopping power in this cartridge. Often times, a fast, relatively light weight HP bullet will penetrate no more, and sometimes less than a bullet going slower. This is do to rapid expansion, and frontal area slowing the bullet down. To slow a speed, and a bullet may not expand, and instead act like a solid, with increased penetration. There are no guarantees where a bullet will end up in a self defense situation, no matter what the caliber or load. Always keep that in the back of your head.

Bear in mind a .357 mag out of a small frame, lightweight gun is going to kick quite a bit more than the same gun shooting non +p 38's. When you consider recoil, muzzle blast, and controllability, might want to consider a good 38 spl +p load in your 38. If it is steel frame, and of recent manufacture, limited use of +p ammo will not hurt it. Personally, I have never been a fan of small frame, lightweight .357's, for the reasons listed above, though some do like them.

Larry

 

[Sgt.Peck]

Another vote for the Critical Defense. I have both non +P, +P .38 and .357 magnum J frame snubnose's and use the Critical Defense standard velocity load for simplicity sake. If you should choose to go with a J magnum, I have seen numerous recommendations from forum members for the, .357 magnum Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel, ammunition.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! There are many factors that may influence whether a round goes through an intended target - as others above noted, bullet design, velocity are important, but also how much of the target the shot traverses and residual energy it has afterward. Imagine how much momentum a bullet has going across the length of a deer, vs. the old Westerns where gun hands were miraculously shot with high frequency .

The prevailing opinion seems to be a +P expanding .38 Special (that you practice with regularly) will do an adequate job of self-defense if needed. A model 640 in .357 with the most effective full 125 gr loads will be a double handful to control; perhaps finding one to try or rent at a range would be a good idea. Chances are high you'll carry it with a warm .38 Special load, or the Speer Short Barrel .357 (kind of a very warm .38 +P) if you buy one. Hope this is helpful.

 

[bigwheelzip]

Howdy from South Carolina, and welcome to the forum.

As previous post stated, the .357 125gr JHP (my personal favorite), would likely stay where you put it, and has a very good reputation. If the recoil is too much, Winchester makes a 110gr JHP that is milder.

 

[petepeterson]

I have a 1992 classic 38 Special (no +P), my one and only, concealed carry 99% of the time. It has come to my attention that a model 640 357 weighs only one ounce more, and of course has considerably more horsepower. I worry, however, about the possibility, with all that extra horsepower, if a 357 JHP might pass through the bad guy and kill a bystander behind him. Would greatly appreciate your input.

Why is your 1992 .38 "no +P"? Is that your choice, or a manufacturer's call?

In regards to your other question, while pass-thru's have happened and are dangerous, the biggest threat to a bystander is a miss by the shooter.

 

[Edmo]

I have a 1992 classic 38 Special (no +P), my one and only, concealed carry 99% of the time. It has come to my attention that a model 640 357 weighs only one ounce more, and of course has considerably more horsepower. I worry, however, about the possibility, with all that extra horsepower, if a 357 JHP might pass through the bad guy and kill a bystander behind him. Would greatly appreciate your input.

Over penetration...

I don't discount the risk of over penetration to bystanders behind the bad guy, especially with a higher velocity round like the 357 Magnum. However, bad guys come in different thicknesses and some of your shots might not be placed perfectly.

What about the risk to bystanders of a standard pressure 38 Special round from your current gun that isn't a center-of-mass hit? What about the risk posed by that same round after a complete miss?

Bad guy aren't required to be the standard 12"-18" of ballistic gel behind 4 layers of denim, so every round from any caliber could potentially end up down range, especially misses.

Reference the 640...

I own the 640-1 pictured below and find it is a good choice when I want to carry an all steel J frame. It is capable of firing full power 357 Magnums, but like others above I generally carry it loaded with 38 Special +P rounds.

Firing 357 Magnum rounds out of a J frame can be a handful for some. For general carry the extra recoil, blast, and flash are more than I want. However, I do like the 357 Magnum option in the woods where the extra zip might be desired for a 4-legged threat.

It is good to have options. YMMV...

Edmo

 

[Pisgah]

You need to be aware that depending on the load your .38 may be more prone to pass through than a .357. Be aware of it, but don't put a whole lot of worry in to it -- the far greater risk to bystanders comes from misses, not pass-throughs.

 

[Arik]

Speer Gold Dots 135gr +P 38spl. Ment for short barrel revolvers.

Remember that bullet performance is usually shown when shot out of a 4in barrel, sometimes a 6 inch. So the numbers you see don't translate to snub nose revolvers. For that they make a bullet that uses the most of those 2 inches of barrel. This is why I mentioned that specific load.

Same with 357. Out of a short barrel revolver you won't get 357 balistics. You'd have to find a,company that makes shot barrel specific ammo.

 

[Rick_A]

.38 Special out of a snubby tends to be a little underpowered. 357 Magnum has an unbelievable noise and blast.

I'd shootl J Magnum and see how you like it.

Most people do not.
Screenshot_2015-06-01-14-33-16 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

 

[Graywolf586]

Speer Gold Dots 135gr +P 38spl. Ment for short barrel revolvers.

Remember that bullet performance is usually shown when shot out of a 4in barrel, sometimes a 6 inch. So the numbers you see don't translate to snub nose revolvers. For that they make a bullet that uses the most of those 2 inches of barrel. This is why I mentioned that specific load.

Same with 357. Out of a short barrel revolver you won't get 357 balistics. You'd have to find a,company that makes shot barrel specific ammo.

Good point barrel length does made a difference in the performance of whatever load you use

 

[bananaman]

Welcome to the FORUM! I have 4, .357 magnum Smiths. I do not shoot magnum loads in them. (but I CAN) There are so many good .38 choices out there! Some were already mentioned. Bob

 

[BE Mike]

Frankly, I'd be more worried about a miss hitting an innocent bystander than a .357 mag. passing through and injuring an innocent bystander.

 

[Old cop]

I tried a couple of the J frame .357 models and found them all to be difficult to get accurate follow up shots with. While I may surrender my man-card I'll stick w/the +P. It worked fine during my LEO time and see no reason to change now.

 

[fedoff]

38 vs 357

A 1992 S&W 38 classic should be more than capable of firing a 38 +P. A good round is the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point. Excellent ballistics at 10 feet.

The 357 is a handful when firing with a J frame. Even firing the 357 with my model 19 is not pleasant and in most cases the extra punch is not necessary. According to FBI stats most handgun encounters happen within 7 to 21 feet; being a retired officer, I can attest to that.

 

[andyo5]

I recently watched a video by Massad Ayoob, in which he discussed ammunition choices. For snub nosed 38 specials he recommended +P lead semi wadcutters. His reasoning is that shot from a snubby, hollow points are unlikely to expand so they offer none of the advantages of a JHP round. Buffalo Bore makes such a load and that is what I carry. 158g +P semi wadcutters.
I have fired .357 rounds through an airweight J frame. You will not want to shoot many of these as they beat the heck out of your hand. So if you carry with them, practice with .38 specials instead.

 

[kaaskop49]

attn OP

Welcome to the Forum. Always great to have new members. The weight difference between the 36 and 640 Magnum is greater than one ounce: more like 4-5 ozs. Also, the 640 Mag is bulkier than the .38 cal Chief. While I adore the snub mags, the 36 is much handier to carry and shoot, IMO. Previous posters have suggested ammunition selections for the Chief.

As to risk, touching off a round in a SD situation is risky for many reasons, regardless of caliber and/or penetration. I might consult a qualified criminal law attorney to learn what those risks are in your state. Good luck and good shooting.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[John R]

Gold Dots in +P for carry is not going to hurt the gun you have, these rounds have plenty of horse power.