Cal44
Member
I used some of those as a kid. I think they would be painful, but no way they will stop a determined attack -- unless you were attacked by an hamster.
.380 Not Good Defensive Caliber??
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I used some of those as a kid. I think they would be painful, but no way they will stop a determined attack -- unless you were attacked by an hamster.
deadear dan
Member
Jim Cirillo (NYPD) talks of repeatedly shooting someone with a 38 load and watching him getting closer and closer as he sees the reflection of the blasts in the attacker's eyes wondering "when is this guy going to go down?" That being said, there is no guaranteed one shot stop round, that includes 00 buck. However if the need arises I would want the most significant round I can carry.
Physics.. Dirty Harry movies aside... if a round will knock an assailant down it will knock the shooter down....... " for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"............. the two options is to shut down an assailant's neuro system or a shot that will bleed him/her out....... quickly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..
A .22 or .380 will kill......... but neither will knock an assailant down.......
OK if you shatter the pelvic girdle.... knee or spinal column..................
all that aside there are a lot of variables in how a person will react to being shot......................................
A .22 or .380 will kill......... but neither will knock an assailant down.......
OK if you shatter the pelvic girdle.... knee or spinal column..................
all that aside there are a lot of variables in how a person will react to being shot......................................
Pawatch
Member
For me the 380 that I owned. I didn't group with it to my liking. And it wasn't all that comfortable to shoot.
Currently using compact 9mm or S&W 442 for bug/pocket gun.
I have shot the Glock 42 a couple times and grouped pretty good with it. I wouldn't have a problem carrying one.
My only gripe with the 380 is....that for a while it was impossible to find 380 ammo. I seen shops selling 380's and not have any ammo for the gun. Hopefully them times are over.
Bottom line is...shoot what works best for you!!
Currently using compact 9mm or S&W 442 for bug/pocket gun.
I have shot the Glock 42 a couple times and grouped pretty good with it. I wouldn't have a problem carrying one.
My only gripe with the 380 is....that for a while it was impossible to find 380 ammo. I seen shops selling 380's and not have any ammo for the gun. Hopefully them times are over.
Bottom line is...shoot what works best for you!!
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Force=Mass x Acceleration every action does have an equal and opposite reaction but the opposite reaction is the recoil of the gun which is reduced by the gun's weight and springs if present.
A punch will knock someone down but the opposing force is minimal compared to the acceleration of the fist and what it's punching. Punch a wall and you'll get the full opposing force.
Me too. Fired 20 rds through my P238, chronographed 1079 fps, SD = 8. Awesome!
All 10 rds had dents near or on the case mouth after ejection. I think I need a heavier buffer spring. No failures of any kind though. All my carry magazines are loaded with these now.
That's near 9 mm velocity, but a 9mm wasn't available in such an easy to carry package at the time I bought it. Now I could buy a P938 and have a 9mm in virtually the same package. Still might do that.
I understand the .380+P is not approved for most .380's because there is no SAAMI standard. However the S&W Bodyguard I understand has got the all clear from S&W.
I highly recommend the P938 whether you have a .380 or not.
This is what the PPK manual says:
WARNING: DEATH, SERIOUS INJURY AND DAMAGE
CAN RESULT FROM THE USE OF INCORRECT
AMMUNITION OR BORE OBSTRUCTIONS. NEVER
USE RELOADS OF ANY KIND.
“Plus-P” (+P) ammunition generates pressures in excess of the
pressures associated with standard ammunition. Such pressures
may affect the wear characteristics or exceed the margin of safety.
Use of “Plus-P” ammunition may result in the need for more
frequent service.
“Plus-P-Plus” (+P+) ammunition must not be used in Smith &
Wesson firearms. This marking on the ammunition designates that
it exceeds established industry standards, but the designation
does not represent defined pressure limits and, therefore, such
ammunition may vary significantly as to the pressures generated
and could be DANGEROUS.
Most pistols will shoot +P but I wouldn't recommend that you use it all the time, but it's your decision.
Seems like you have "issues" Bob. Good luck with them.
Remember that one has to actually hit the person to knock them down. Or be able to conduct follow up shots. A bomb will do no one good if it hits the wrong area. A grenade launcher will do no good if shrapnel hits the target and you require a long reload time. They do go big booms, but booms don't matter if it doesn't hit the spot.
Why do I carry a 45acp? Because I haven't found a legal way to conceal a 12ga. 
As for the 380, I sure don't want to get shot with one.
Seriously, 90% of the time these days, I'm carrying my Shield 9mm.
I have a Commander size 1911 (Kimber 4") that I used to carry in the winter and a Model 60 I carried in the summer. Now, the Shield fills the bill most of the time. I carry the 60 and the 1911 from time to time just because I like them but that little Shield is a dandy pistol.
Jeff
As for the 380, I sure don't want to get shot with one.
Seriously, 90% of the time these days, I'm carrying my Shield 9mm.
I have a Commander size 1911 (Kimber 4") that I used to carry in the winter and a Model 60 I carried in the summer. Now, the Shield fills the bill most of the time. I carry the 60 and the 1911 from time to time just because I like them but that little Shield is a dandy pistol.
Jeff
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ChattanoogaPhil
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Knock off the bickering
Fastbolt
Member
There have been so many recent .380 ACP thread topics that I've not been able to keep track of which ones I've read or in which I've posted comments. 
Probably because it's been the fastest growing caliber for sales in the commercial market in the last couple of years, maybe? (According to what we were told in my last Glock armorer recert last year, accompanying the release of the G42.
)
Some random thoughts on .380's ...
I picked up a LCP a couple years ago. Why? Because I'd seen and heard of them doing well in different LE shooter hands. It was marginally smaller than the Bodyguard, and it was easier to conceal in a lot of tighter/shorter jeans pockets which couldn't conceal my J-frames. Up until then, I'd not owned one for something like 25+ years (Beretta M84).
Is the .380 ACP up to the same ballistic performance levels of the standard 9mm? Of course not. Is it equal to the .38 Spl? Probably not, at least when it comes to the .38 Spl being able to fire heavier bullet weights.
Has it still shown it can save the lives of LE when used as a secondary/backup & off-duty weapon? Well, according to the LEOKA (law enforcement officers killed & assaulted) class and a street tactics/ofc survival class I took a couple years ago ... yes, it's been working in that regard.
Personally, I think that once you choose a quality example from among the growing breed of really diminutive .380's ... and confirm your example is reliable with the ammo you use ... it really comes down to how well you can use the little .380, meaning consistently accurately and effectively.
Allowed to choose your own ammunition? Fine. Do your research and make your own informed opinion. Focus on maintaining the little gun properly, and honing your skillset so you can fight with the little gun under stress and difficult conditions.
Restricted to using ammo selected by someone else (policy, etc)? Fine. Focus on maintaining the little gun properly, and honing your skillset so you can fight with the little gun under stress and difficult conditions.
It's a .380 ACP. It is what it is. It's not a 9mm or a .38 Spl (or anything else that's larger, more powerful or fires a heavier bullet).
You see some folks shot and either killed or paralyzed with the .380 caliber, you hopefully realize it's not some leisurely hypothetical "ballistic performance" debate without potential consequences when rounds are fired in the real world.
I often tell some of the folks I help on training & qual ranges that it's less about the particular caliber & ammo, and more about them being able to effectively use it, that really matters when the rubber meets the road.
Probably because it's been the fastest growing caliber for sales in the commercial market in the last couple of years, maybe? (According to what we were told in my last Glock armorer recert last year, accompanying the release of the G42.
)Some random thoughts on .380's ...
I picked up a LCP a couple years ago. Why? Because I'd seen and heard of them doing well in different LE shooter hands. It was marginally smaller than the Bodyguard, and it was easier to conceal in a lot of tighter/shorter jeans pockets which couldn't conceal my J-frames. Up until then, I'd not owned one for something like 25+ years (Beretta M84).
Is the .380 ACP up to the same ballistic performance levels of the standard 9mm? Of course not. Is it equal to the .38 Spl? Probably not, at least when it comes to the .38 Spl being able to fire heavier bullet weights.
Has it still shown it can save the lives of LE when used as a secondary/backup & off-duty weapon? Well, according to the LEOKA (law enforcement officers killed & assaulted) class and a street tactics/ofc survival class I took a couple years ago ... yes, it's been working in that regard.
Personally, I think that once you choose a quality example from among the growing breed of really diminutive .380's ... and confirm your example is reliable with the ammo you use ... it really comes down to how well you can use the little .380, meaning consistently accurately and effectively.
Allowed to choose your own ammunition? Fine. Do your research and make your own informed opinion. Focus on maintaining the little gun properly, and honing your skillset so you can fight with the little gun under stress and difficult conditions.
Restricted to using ammo selected by someone else (policy, etc)? Fine. Focus on maintaining the little gun properly, and honing your skillset so you can fight with the little gun under stress and difficult conditions.
It's a .380 ACP. It is what it is. It's not a 9mm or a .38 Spl (or anything else that's larger, more powerful or fires a heavier bullet).
You see some folks shot and either killed or paralyzed with the .380 caliber, you hopefully realize it's not some leisurely hypothetical "ballistic performance" debate without potential consequences when rounds are fired in the real world.
I often tell some of the folks I help on training & qual ranges that it's less about the particular caliber & ammo, and more about them being able to effectively use it, that really matters when the rubber meets the road.
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Great for snakes and varmints!
stantheman86
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As for the .22 shot shells for defense? No....Just, no...some people buy one of those NAA .22 Magnum or LR mini revolcers and load them with shot shells thinking they've got a Mini Judge but it's far from the case. These barely hurt birds at close range.
I guaranty you've never actually tested this. .22 for defense with right shot placement will do just fine.
Cal44
Member
I think standtheman was talking about the 22 shot shells. These are 22LR sized cartridges loaded with very small pellets like a mini-shotgun.
When I was a kid we call these "Bird shot" -- and shooting birds was about what they were good for.
I used to shoot tin cans with them for target practice and many times they would dent the can and not even penetrate. (Well, 50 years ago cans were stronger than today).
I suspect that if the person were wearing a heavy jacket the bird shot might not even get through to his skin.
If you hit him on bare skin I expect the pellets would penetrate an inch or so and hurt like heck, but not stop -- probably make the BG royally po-ed at you.
Standard 22LR single bullet ammo is a whole other story, as you said.
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