3913NL Engineering version

[RacinbobSW]

I have a 3913NL build it 1991. I am selling it and had a gentleman contact me and discuss something I never heard before and I wanted to get your opinion here.

He asked if it was the early engineering version or later. I go 'HUH?' He went on to say that on the early engineering versions the flat on top was narrower than the later versions. He said the early versions still used some Gen 2 engineering and were unreliable. I measured mine and told him it was 7/16". He said he didn't know the dimensions (??) and needed to see it so I took a picture and texted it to him. Early version per him.

Now, the question here isn't about the gentleman I talked to. He was a nice guy and I'm sure he had only the best intentions. Can anybody enlighten me on this? I've never heard of it in all the decades I've been a S&W nut.

 

[petepeterson]

Perhaps he was asking if it was a 1st or 2nd Gen S&W auto. Or maybe if it was a "value-line" gun. Those are a little flatter on top. I think we take for granted here that everyone knows what we're talking about.

 

[RacinbobSW]

No, he clearly understood the difference between the generations. He sounded pretty knowledgeable. Being a NL he surely knew that it wasn't one of the value versions. Thanks for getting back so quick. This could be interesting when more folks wake up.

 

[TTSH]

He asked if it was the early engineering version or later. I go 'HUH?' He went on to say that on the early engineering versions the flat on top was narrower than the later versions. He said the early versions still used some Gen 2 engineering and were unreliable. I measured mine and told him it was 7/16". He said he didn't know the dimensions (??) and needed to see it so I took a picture and texted it to him. Early version per him.

Is this alleged engineering change supposedly unique to the 3913NL (and, presumably, to its sister 3913LS)? Or is it supposedly an engineering change to the plain vanilla 3913's as well?

Do I need to go pull my 3913's out of the safe and measure them to see which ones might be "unreliable"?

 

[RacinbobSW]

Yea, do that. Being the nice guy that I am I'll take those unreliable things off your hands so you don't have to bother with them.

He was referring to all of them. He talked a great story and, as I said, was a nice guy, but I was pretty dumbfounded. It wasn't all that long ago that I would have confronted him but I guess I've mellowed. I do want to arm myself with info from the knowledgeable folks here and I'll email him....I'll be nice. The bottom line is that he won't even consider buying the older engineering 3rd Gens.

 

[BAM-BAM]

I think there were some "transition" guns between the 2nd and 3rd Gen....... but I think they were all full size models...... as S&W never throws anything away...... IIRC .......659 uppers on 5906 frames.

The NL's were what 3-4 years after the first 3913/14s ????

 

[18DAI]

I just moved and cant find a ruler or calipers. But eye-balling my 1991 3914NL, 1988 3914 "prototype", 1990 3914, 1991 3954 and 1989 3913 - side by side - I see no difference in the slide width or the flat on top of the slide.

Hope this helps. If I can find my toolbox or a ruler in this mess, I will edit and provide measurements. Regards18DAI

Edited to add: I disagree strongly with the assertion that ANY 39XX pistol, from any engineering batch, is unrelible. I have almost 5000 rounds through a 1989 3913 with absolutely zero malfunctions. I now have 2400 rounds through my well used and previously neglected 3914NL without a single malfunction. All my other 39XX series guns have less than 1000 rounds through them, by me, and again there has not been a single stoppage with any of them. They are bet your life reliable in my experience.

 

[Big Cholla]

IMHO, he was 'running' a sandy on you in a feeble attempt to barter you down. In all my years pistolsmithing S&Ws and the ownership of at least 10 individuals, I have never heard of any reliability issues with any 'class' of the 39XX models. Another 'YouTube' expert. ......

 

[beuford]

Engineering batch?

He may be referring to the early 3rd gens that had the AIP serial number prefix (serial number of the form AIPXXXX). These were some of the earliest 3rd gens. I was told that AIP stood for Automatic Improvement Program.

There were also some guns between the 2nd and 3rd gens that had 2nd gen part numbers but used 3rd gen frames.

Beuford

 

[GaryS]

I think that the only unreliable thing is the buyer's information.

 

[TTSH]

IMHO, he was 'running' a sandy on you in a feeble attempt to barter you down.

I think that the only unreliable thing is the buyer's information.

I may want to use that "engineering change" thing as a future negotiating point myself so don't spread it around. Hey, what the heck? All's fair in love and 3rd Gen collecting!

 

[BAM-BAM]

I may want to use that "engineering change" thing as a future negotiating point myself....................................................

Don't wait too long!!!!!!!!

 

[TTSH]

Don't wait too long!!!!!!!!

Yes, I know. 4-1/2 years left and fast slipping away.

 

[Ross3914]

I measured the three of mine. One 3913, one 3914, and one pre-rail 3913TSW. None are NL. All three are the same as your's, 7/16th, and look the same as your's in the pic.

 

[JohnHL]

Just a guess.
Perhaps he was referring to "Barrel hood width".
The narrow hood belonging to the early models and the wider hood being on the later models.

John

 

[Fastbolt]

Having gone through the 3rd gen pistol armorer class 4 times, and having spoken to different folks from the factory over the years, I've heard my fair share of stories and trivia regarding the AIP, including the introduction of the 3913. I've personally never heard anything similar to the reported "info" in the OP's post, though. (Which doesn't mean anything more than that.)

I think one of the first things I heard was how S&W had asked Wayne Novak to help them in the design and development of the 3913, based upon the popularity of the ASP (and other customized versions of earlier versions of S&W 9mm pistols), and their desire to create a compact single stack 9mm that would appeal to a wider market.

The usual stories I heard about the early 3913, from factory folks, was how it had more than lived up to its expectations regarding reliability and sales. It was easily one of their strongest sellers for some time, resulting in different model variations that did very well.

I'd also wonder if the gentleman might've been thinking about the time in the later 90's when the ongoing manufacturing and production revisions resulted in the introduction of the slide with the wide breech face cut, versus the original narrow one, and the way the slide machining changed for the slide profile and sights.

The wide breech face vertical cut eliminated the rounded machined 'shoulders' on the breech face, making them straight vertical cuts, and also required the barrel tab to be correspondingly widened.

There were a number of minor revisions to any number of things over time, including extractors and extractor spring tension on different models.

FWIW, as the TSW's became a standard line, there was a 'standard' production extractor spring listed (1st one on parts list, in order of springs listed, I was told), but 1-2 optional springs were also listed on most models. Those optional springs were listed to allow for armorers to address any potential production, ammunition and shooter variables.

In the early gen guns armorers were given a list of extractor spring numbers for various models/calibers, and a reference to them being standard, light, extra light, heavy and extra heavy for calibers/models. There were other springs available at times, and some overlap. Extractors and ejectors were revised and refined, too.

 

[mbliss57]

Thanks 18DAI and Fastbolt for another lesson in 3rd gen-ology. I always appreciate your knowledge and experience.

 

[5Wire]

There seems to have been only one version of the NL acknowledged in the SCS&W:

Model 3913NL Caliber: 9mm Parabellum. Traditional double-action. Model 3913 with an angled profile frame and slide rather than the straight cut frame. Identical to 3913LS without the "LadySmith" markings, .260" bobbed hammer, .304" smooth trigger, Novak Lo-Mount sights, 3rd trigger guard. Weight is 25 oz. "TEExxxx" serial number prefix. [the serial number on mine is VJA5028, quite a way from TEExxxx]

Produced 1991 – 1994.
Product Codes and Features by Year
103913 3-1/2" S TDA FS TDA 8SH MNSF AA SB, 1991-94.
Supica, Jim; Nahas, Richard (2006-12-20). Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson 3rd (Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson) (pp. 287-288). F+W Media, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

 

[N4KVE]

IMHO, he was 'running' a sandy on you in a feeble attempt to barter you down.

It doesn't seem like it was a ploy to get the gun for less. It seems the buyer just didn't want that variant, whether the reason was valid or not. GARY

The bottom line is that he won't even consider buying the older engineering 3rd Gens.

__________________

 

[RacinbobSW]

All you folks are great and I appreciate the information. I really don't think this guy was playing games. He was just sorely misinformed. Once he saw the picture he simply said not interested. No $$ were discussed and I wouldn't have budged anyways. I did send him another email and explained things. I have no clue if he believed me because he didn't respond.