3rd Gen Smith's...or where the hell was I?

[GaryS]

Good call actually. When I got my pre rail 3913TSW it had Hogue grips on it that had been modified to fit. The were nice, except that the pushed my middle finger into the edge of the trigger guard. Not very comfortable and it led to me shifting my grip.

I took those off and put stock grips on. Better on my finger, but loose in my hand.

Then I saw your post and had a "Duh!" moment. I actually used the Pachmayr version. Feels pretty good, but I'll have to see about trying the Hogue version. It's cheap enough to tack on to my next Brownell's or Midway order.

What about Hogue Handall on the 9mm Compact?

 

[timn8er]

The 3913 is not DOA, that would be the 3953. 3913 is TDA.

You are exactly right, sir. I stand infected...

 

[James&theGiant1911]

I know that this will cause the vapors among some people, but the 3rd generation guns are far superior to the 1911. I have never owned a 1911 and don't have any plans to.

What? Ever shot a Colt Gold Cup National Match, Nighthawk custom, ever seen any Novak's guns? I love Smiths and they made some great 3rd gen pistols but there are benchmarks of certain guns that each company represents. Sig makes a great .357 sig weapon, Smith makes a great 40 caliber (4006 based weapons) and Colt makes an awesome 45 caliber (1911) that can be made better with a little gunsmith work.

Ever shot the Browning Hi Power? IMO the best 9mm ever made as far as feel and balance go. I love Smiths do not get me wrong and the LEO pieces hit the market and they are a good deal but to say a 3rd gen 45 Smith is better than a 1911 is like saying a Toyota is better than a Lexus or a Chevrolet is as good as a Cadillac.

 

[TTSH]

I know that this will cause the vapors among some people, but the 3rd generation guns are far superior to the 1911.

I love Smiths... but to say a 3rd gen 45 Smith is better than a 1911 is like saying a Toyota is better than a Lexus...

If I were a smarter man, I'd stay wide & clear of this dubious debate. But whoever said I was smart?

I think it all boils down to one's personal definition of the word "superior" as it applies to .45 ACP handguns... and, specifically to 3rd Gens vs. 1911's.

On the one hand, you could legitimately declare the 1911 the superiority winner just based on the fact that S&W gave up on its 3rd Gens and now makes and sells 1911's instead.

On the other hand, while the 1911 is truly a timeless, classic design (and we should all own at least one!), I think you can make a good case that the 3rd Gen .45's are a whole lot more modern, advanced and practical, especially for carry. And while in production, before cheap plastic guns became all the rage, I'll bet a lot more cops were carrying 3rd Gens than 1911's.

Truth is that you are both right. Just depends on what your priorities are. I own a couple of Colt 1911's but I can't wait to get my hands on a 4506-1. And if S&W ever re-introduced a special edition 4513TSW, I would get a third mortgage on the house just to be able to own one.

Can't honestly say I'd ever do that for another 1911.

 

[GaryS]

I've shot a couple of 1911s. They were nice. They were also twice what I'd pay for a 45xx gun.

Since the 1911 was never designed or intended to be a highly accurate competition gun, the good ones require a ton of custom work and money to be the great shooters they are.

Is a S&W 1911 out of the box more reliable or accurate than say, a 4506 out of the box?

The best 1911 I've shot was an Ed Brown custom that a friend of mine bought directly from the company. 3.5 pound trigger pull, very accurate, and fun to shoot. I forget what he paid for it, but it was in the low four figures.

My 5906 is just as accurate and a lot of fun to shoot without any custom work.

Brownells has page after page of custom parts for 1911s. There's a reason for that.

What? Ever shot a Colt Gold Cup National Match, Nighthawk custom, ever seen any Novak's guns? I love Smiths and they made some great 3rd gen pistols but there are benchmarks of certain guns that each company represents. Sig makes a great .357 sig weapon, Smith makes a great 40 caliber (4006 based weapons) and Colt makes an awesome 45 caliber (1911) that can be made better with a little gunsmith work.

Ever shot the Browning Hi Power? IMO the best 9mm ever made as far as feel and balance go. I love Smiths do not get me wrong and the LEO pieces hit the market and they are a good deal but to say a 3rd gen 45 Smith is better than a 1911 is like saying a Toyota is better than a Lexus or a Chevrolet is as good as a Cadillac.

 

[18DAI]

Unlike most 1911's, the 3rd gen 45's "break-in period" (a term coined by Kimber to excuse their shoddy QA/QC) ends when you take it out of the box.

DanHend welcome to the forum! Regards 18DAI

 

[GaryS]

Fortunately, I didn't have any liquid in my mouth or you'd owe me a new keyboard!

Unlike most 1911's, the 3rd gen 45's "break-in period" (a term coined by Kimber to excuse their shoddy QA/QC) ends when you take it out of the box.

DanHend welcome to the forum! Regards 18DAI

 

[Texas40]

Bought my two 4006s as leo trades for 250 ea less than 2yrs ago.

 

[Jaymo]

Well, everyone else is doing it so I may as well. I'm going to urinate in someone's Cheerios.
I love 1911s and SIGs.
That said, I've always found 3rd gen Smiths to be better looking than 1911s (even when I was a S&W hater).

I also consider 3rd gen S&Ws to be equal to SIGs, but more affordable due to the lack of German/Swiss arrogance.

I've never seen the reliability issues in 3rd gen Smiths that I've seen in 1911s. (Did I just say that?)

I grew up a Colt fan. You couldn't give me a Smith, etc, etc, etc.

Then, I grew up and realized I could like several brands.

To me, there's never been a better looking autopistol than a 3904/3906 or 5904/5906 with a SQUARE triggerguard.
There, I said it. I stand by it.

I love 1911s and BHPs. Great guns.
But my 3rd gen Smiths make me feel like a giggly schoolgirl.

Then, there's my 52-1.
That was my grail pistol for 34 years. Even when I hated S&Ws. Go figure.
I never claimed to make any sense.

I even like the way my 5946 looks. And I love the way it feels.

Hell, I think the break-in period for a 3rd gen Smith is racking the slide to chamber the first round so you can take it's virginity.

None of my 1911s would ever chamber empty brass and they all needed work to reliably cycle HP ammo.

The one place a 1911 has it all over the vast majority of SA pistols (except my 52-1) is trigger pull.

All you on this forum have corrupted me into a S&W fan.
Congratulations.
9 S&W revolvers ad 5 S&W autos.
I hope y'all are really damned proud of yerselves.
Ya done corrupted me and violated my Colt-ish-ness.

And, it all started with a 31-1 I got a year (or so) ago, because I figured I might as well own one S&W.

 

[DanHend]

Minor drift, but if I had to name my favorite handgun that wasn't a 1911 (they're like F1 cars, so far in their own league they can only compete against each other), it would be a Stainless Sig. What makes me love the 3rd Gen Smiths (namely the TSW line), is they're about 90% what I love about Stainless Sigs at a much better price used.

The main things that keep them from advancing is I do like any kind of safety/decocker on the frame instead of the slide. For me, it takes up too much of the slide and limits you to how much serrations you can have. S&W did it much better than Beretta in that there's no way you can accidentally hit the safety. The other part is the rail does strike me as a "F--- you, give me money" upgrade.

I would certainly be all in for a 4566 Melonite, and I wouldn't care if it had the WVSP billboard on the slide. I do really like the integrated frame rail.

The biggest question I still have is what were the Alloy TSW going for compared to the Steel version? I remember the Value Line being about $450 new in my area (KCMO), but I never knew Alloy versions existed until I started digging.

The other part I still don't get is why are the new S&Ws more expensive than Sigs? In the used market, Sigs hold their value a lot better, but the 3rd Gen guns were MSRPd more than the Stainless Sigs until about right now. S&W's 1911s run higher than Sigs, but S&W doesn't have to import anything from Germany where everything is more expensive.

I also saw a 4026 that had the KCPD logo laser etched. Anyone know where I could score one for a reasonable fee?

 

[GaryS]

What about Hogue Handall on the 9mm Compact?

You mean like this?

I ordered both a Handall and a Handall Jr. The Handall Jr. was too small for my liking. The Handall required some trimming around the bottom of the grip, but seems to work OK.

I carry it this way until the next time I can get to the range and see how I like it.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I have said before, and will say again. S&W should make a small run every so often of the latest (real Picatinny rail) version of the 3rd Gens. For example, the 4006CHP, the 4566 and the 5906 and 5946NY. The compact 3953 would go over well also, made in limited numbers.

If they can make, and sell, small runs of certain other models, it seems like they could do a small run of these every so often.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with the M&P line that nearly a decade of product improvement has not mostly corrected, but the 3rd Gens had 50 years of development behind them, and their reliability and dependability was beyond question. I suppose it could be argued that the 1076 is the one exception, but on the other hand, prepping the trigger is just plain BAD training, and the only people who had issues were people who insisted on pulling the trigger part of the way back and holding there in times of trouble. Works fine on a square range, but not so much in "real life." Operated correctly, the S&W 3rd Gens are very fine.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

I am sure if we could come up with enough people on here to get a 30-50 grand order in then they would build us any third gen we want. They will still build them for the right price and the right department.

 

[shotguntom]

I believe you are looking for a 3906 or 3904, but they are steel framed. The 3913 fits your criteria, but it's DAO.

The 3953 is a DAO gun. The 3913 and 3914 are single action pistols.
I own all 3 models, and you cant go wrong with any of them.

 

[BAM-BAM]

The idea of Special order/ limited run guns ...... comes out of the shadows if you visit Wilson Combat and/or the Beretta Forum........

Wilson is offering a "Special Tactical 92" put together at his specs. He had to order 1000 guns to get Beretta to build them...... they are selling for $1,200; so I guessing it was a "Million Dollar order!!!"


I stopped buying at the 3rd Generation Smiths....... 3913/14, 6906/04, 59xxs and 4566...... love the value for the money of the 915s ....... and the 4 PC guns..... 2 Shorty style 9mm's an SD-9 and a IDPA 5906 are the best of the breed!

Through the late 90s and early 21st century....... I accumulated my current primary carry guns (3913/14 and PC 6906) plus back-up and back-ups to the back-ups.......LOL ........... at great prices. Extra mags could be picked up for as little as $10-14......... so I'm GTG

 

[TTSH]

The idea of Special order/ limited run guns ...... comes out of the shadows if you visit Wilson Combat and/or the Beretta Forum........

Wilson is offering a "Special Tactical 92" put together at his specs. He had to order 1000 guns to get Beretta to build them...... they are selling for $1,200; so I guessing it was a "Million Dollar order!!!"

So do you think we can get together enough interest here for a WVSP special order 4566TSW?

 

[rags]

We're done with the bickering.

Thank you. Carry on...calmly please. I "like" third gens!

 

[GaryS]

I think the problem is that there is basically only one model of 92, although there are some variations.

There are a couple of dozen, at least, 3rd generation models. The 4566TSW is nice, but I wouldn't be interested. Others would like a 4006TSW as used by the CHP. And so on.

So do you think we can get together enough interest here for a WVSP special order 4566TSW?

 

[TTSH]

I think the problem is that there is basically only one model of 92, although there are some variations.

There are a couple of dozen, at least, 3rd generation models. The 4566TSW is nice, but I wouldn't be interested. Others would like a 4006TSW as used by the CHP. And so on.

Oh man! And here I was counting on you to take at least two!

 

[4506517]

Wasn't this recently discussed here? I think someone even contacted a noted distributor about handling a "special order". I can't recall what the minimum piece count was, but I remember thinking it would take every active member here to buy one to make it feasible.

Don't get me wrong......I forked out $1600 for a pristine WVSP 4566TSW......it is unreal.

Smith & Wesson is NOT going to bring back the 3rd gennies.

I think we have just about beat this topic to death. They aren't gonna do it.

The few people in the shooting world that would pay $1500+ for one all post on this forum......and even that might be optimistic.