3rd Gen Withdrawal Syndrome?

[TTSH]

I think there is some validity to this. A lot of newer gun owners aren't what I call "gun people". They see guns as tools for self defense and care about function more than anything else. We all love our 3rd generation guns and do what we can to keep them in good condition. In my case, a 3913TSW is my primary SD carry firearm. I wouldn't recommend that to my friend who has guns, but isn't really all that much interested in guns.

I think that's typical of a lot of newer gun owners. If he wanted a semi auto, I'd probably recommend a M&P 9mm. Or maybe even a Glock or Ruger. Something that is relatively low maintenance and for which parts are plentiful and getting repairs done is easy.

Understood. These are the people plastic was made for. It's cheap. It works. It's low maintenance. And it comes with a lifetime warranty. What's not to like? And if you get bored with it, you can always melt it down and make it into something else!

Just kidding, of course... but why should we share our beloved 3rd Gens with folks who might not appreciate them so much? Or be willing to put up with the sometimes disappointing hunt for parts? And backorders of parts that may never even come in? That sort of thing is not for everyone.

There are a lot of reasons to like 3rd Gens. To me, they are the last great semi-autos to come out of the company I grew up admiring. They are the last DA/SA and DAO semi-autos out of Springfield that still represent the traditional gunmaker's art... and not just the "art" of computer-aided design, injection molded plastic and stamped metal parts. These guns are craftsmanship, tradition and artwork to me in a way that plastic guns can never be.

Anyway, I'm glad I found the addiction. Without these 3rd Gens I'd probably be back to collecting pre-IL S&W revolvers... and you know how crazy expensive those dang things can be!

 

[nocents]

But you are right. New England is an expensive place to live. Too bad for me that we are more-or-less stuck here. For us, it's just a matter of finding a place in a town and state where we can survive okay without too much of a tax and living cost burden. But as time goes on, our good options seem to be fewer and fewer.

southern Ohio has relatively low cost of living..and Ohio is a pretty free state firearm wise.....BUT the weather still sux 4 months out of the year....you know what is said about the "grass being greener".......but Florida is looking better to me everyday this time of year

 

[legelegel]

There have been a number of 3rd gen guns popping up in the PRM. None that I've been interested in, though. Some Value Line guns as well.

No one seems to be interested in my 3904, at least not at a price I'm willing to take.

I saw a kind of beat up 469 at a LGS yesterday, but the 2nd gen guns don't hold much interest for me.

Me too, except for my major upgrade of in the style of my S&W Model 39-2, the early S&W Model 639. It has the rounded trigger guard, fixed sights and single thumb safety.

 

[BAM-BAM]

legelegel....... the only 2nd gen gun that ever caught my attention was the 639...... with the round trigger guard.......haven't seen one in decades....LOL

Pension..... what's a pension........ should have been a school teacher!!!!LOL.....80-something percent at 55 ( 30 years).

I need to consolidate soon...... smaller than the Pittsburgh home (w/o the local/school taxes) ....... and bigger than the "cabin" in the Allegheny's....and I have the same winter/weather issues as "nocents"...... more slush than usable snow......not sure about Fla. in the summer though !!!!!!

 

[GaryS]

I traded off a fair amount of other stuff (money) for the pension. That being said, when I started in EMS, the pension wasn't on my mind. Unlike some public employees I know, who thought of little else from the day they started.

New England is expensive, and except for CT, MA is probably the most expensive place to live.

Since I don't like cold weather, NH is not a first choice. It's a possibility, but only if we can't move south. VT and ME have fairly high tax rates, CT and RI even more so.

The legal, cultural, and political atmosphere in MA disagrees with my personal values more and more with each passing day.

Well, first off, you are DAMN fortunate to have a pension. In my chosen profession, those went away 30+ years ago. Having a pension in retirement changes everything... especially if it is a tax-exempt pension.

But you are right. New England is an expensive place to live. Too bad for me that we are more-or-less stuck here. For us, it's just a matter of finding a place in a town and state where we can survive okay without too much of a tax and living cost burden. But as time goes on, our good options seem to be fewer and fewer.

 

[GaryS]

As mentioned above, I've already got a fine example of a 4516-1 with lots of magazines and spare parts. On top of that, I found another nice one just the other day. It's more expensive than what I paid for mine and only comes with 2 magazines (and no box), but it's also in great shape!

If I win the lottery before it sells, I'm all over it!

To drift back on topic a bit, is there any reason other than the all stainless construction that th 4516 would be preferable to a 4513TSW? Well, scarcity of the latter, maybe.

There are a lot of reasons to like 3rd Gens. To me, they are the last great semi-autos to come out of the company I grew up admiring. They are the last DA/SA and DAO semi-autos out of Springfield that still represent the traditional gunmaker's art... and not just the "art" of computer-aided design, injection molded plastic and stamped metal parts. These guns are craftsmanship, tradition and artwork to me in a way that plastic guns can never be.

Anyway, I'm glad I found the addiction. Without these 3rd Gens I'd probably be back to collecting pre-IL S&W revolvers... and you know how crazy expensive those dang things can be!

Expensive indeed. I spent more on my 13-4 than I did on any of my 3rd gen guns. I expect the prices on 3rd gens to rise in the future as people start to appreciate their virtues.

As I've said before, I think Smith could make money and make people happy if they reintroduced a 3913 with a frame mounted decocker. A 4513 built the same way too. No reason for Sig to get all of that market.

southern Ohio has relatively low cost of living..and Ohio is a pretty free state firearm wise.....BUT the weather still sux 4 months out of the year....you know what is said about the "grass being greener".......but Florida is looking better to me everyday this time of year

I hate cold weather. I want to live somewhere that snowblowers aren't even recognized!

Me too, except for my major upgrade of in the style of my S&W Model 39-2, the early S&W Model 639. It has the rounded trigger guard, fixed sights and single thumb safety.

To be clear, I have no distaste for the 2nd gen guns. It's just the I like the 3rd gen guns, especially the single stack compacts.

 

[timn8er]

"To drift back on topic a bit, is there any reason other than the all stainless construction that the 4516 would be preferable to a 4513TSW? Well, scarcity of the latter, maybe." Gary S.

To me that would be the only reason. I have both of them, & like both of them, but if one absolutely had to go it would be the 4516-1. The 4513TSW...I just shoot it a lot better, & I've been known to take it out of its case & just admire it. Its like a fine watch, small, compact, & well made. The 4513TSW, the 3913TSW, the 4506-1...I might have them buried with me! It would be a shame to take them out of circulation like that though. We'll see.

 

[GaryS]

Thanks. If I were ever to see one for sale, I'd be hard pressed to bypass a 4513TSW. I just like my pre rail 3913TSW so much.

"To drift back on topic a bit, is there any reason other than the all stainless construction that the 4516 would be preferable to a 4513TSW? Well, scarcity of the latter, maybe."

To me that would be the only reason. I have both of them, & like both of them, but if one absolutely had to go it would be the 4516-1. The 4513TSW...I just shoot it a lot better, & I've been known to take it out of its case & just admirer it. Its like a fine watch, small, compact, & well made. The 4513TSW, the 3913TSW, the 4506-1...I might have them buried with me! It would be a shame to take them out of circulation like that though. We'll see.

 

[TTSH]

Suffice it to say that it's hard to find 3rd generation guns for sale in MA. I think most of the trade ins are from people who are either giving up their licenses or people "upgrading" to Blocks, M&Ps, Sigs or some other brand of firearm.

Don't know of anyone who is dissatisfied with their 3rd Gen or is bored with it or who doesn't see it as a sound investment. Studying the local used gun market can tell you a lot about what people value and what they don't. A 3rd Gen collector in MA is very lucky if he/she can stumble across someone who must trim back or liquidate their S&W collection for whatever reason. Even the dealers are complaining about the sparse supply of used guns of 3rd Gen quality. Lots of used plastic and uninteresting junk around but folks liquidating truly worthwhile collections are few and far between.

Some FFLs know that there is a small cohort of 3rd generation aficionados and price accordingly. Other FFLs take them in and put a price on them to see if anyone is interested.

I think we need to be more discrete. The dealers aren't fools. They see the demand for nice used 3rd Gens is there and rising prices are reflecting that. My very first 3rd Gen was a true bargain. My second one was damn close. Since then, I can't say I've done nearly so well price-wise. No more bargains for sure and one that I clearly overpaid for.

These days, a "fair" price is a fantastic find and $50-$100 overpriced (by earlier standards) seems to be the rule. Then go to a show and see some as much as $150-$250 overpriced! Mama Mia!

Let's face it: I started my 3rd Gen collecting at least a year too late and maybe as much as 3 to 5 years too late. Dang!!!

 

[TTSH]

Me too, except for my major upgrade of in the style of my S&W Model 39-2, the early S&W Model 639. It has the rounded trigger guard, fixed sights and single thumb safety.

I could definitely go for a nice 639 at the right price!

 

[TTSH]

Pension..... what's a pension........ should have been a school teacher!!!!LOL.....80-something percent at 55 (30 years).

Who knew 40 years ago that pensions would disappear in the private sector and only survive intact (and even flourish!) in the public sector? Damn! If only I had a crystal ball that could foretell the future all those many years ago.

New England is expensive, and except for CT, MA is probably the most expensive place to live.

Since I don't like cold weather, NH is not a first choice. It's a possibility, but only if we can't move south. VT and ME have fairly high tax rates, CT and RI even more so.

The legal, cultural, and political atmosphere in MA disagrees with my personal values more and more with each passing day.

Yep! You got that right. As bad as MA is, CT is even worse.

NH is cold with crazy high property taxes and RI is totally bankrupt & corrupt.

I could never see myself living in loony lefty VT, so that leaves only ME as a semi-reasonable retirement alternative to MA, at least for now.

The real answer is to get the heck away from New England altogether. If only we could.

 

[TTSH]

Expensive indeed. I spent more on my 13-4 than I did on any of my 3rd gen guns. I expect the prices on 3rd gens to rise in the future as people start to appreciate their virtues.

No question in my mind that it is already happening... and I don't see the trend reversing or even stabilizing anytime soon. Wish I was wrong about that but the evidence I'm seeing says otherwise.

 

[GaryS]

No question in my mind that it is already happening... and I don't see the trend reversing or even stabilizing anytime soon. Wish I was wrong about that but the evidence I'm seeing says otherwise.

Of course it will be worse here in the People's Republic of Mass because of the aforementioned restrictions.

 

[TTSH]

Of course it will be worse here in the People's Republic of Mass because of the aforementioned restrictions.

For the most part, yes. When that elusive Model 4506-1 of mine finally makes its appearance, I fear that 3rd Gen price inflation is going to be a problem I'll have to address. It's already happened with the 10mm models (within MA, I am priced totally out of the market) so can the full-size .45 be far behind?

I really should have bought that 4506 "no dash" out in Worcester when I had the chance. It had been there a while and they were begging me to take it. They spoke of a substantial discount off the $575 asking price. But the sights weren't Novak and for sure they would have had to have been changed (they really sucked!). Add cost of new sights and slide machining and I couldn't bring myself to do it.

I thought a 4506-1 would come along soon enough. But so far, I am still waiting.

 

[GaryS]

I think 10mm 3rd gen guns are much more rare than any of the others. I don't know that I've ever seen one for sale in MA.

While the widest variety of 3rd gen guns is in 45, I think the largest quantity was 9mm. Maybe 40 was next, but I'm not a .40 guy, so I don't follow it too closely.

I see 4006s pop up fairly often (relative term) and there are a couple of 4516s floating around in gun shops.

I know that one very busy shop has a 908, but since I have two 3913s and a 3913TSW, I'm not interested.

At this point, a 4513TSW would be about all I'd really want. I don't expect to see one soon. Of course you never know what's going to pop up, so who knows?

For the most part, yes. When that elusive Model 4506-1 of mine finally makes its appearance, I fear that 3rd Gen price inflation is going to be a problem I'll have to address. It's already happened with the 10mm models (within MA, I am priced totally out of the market) so can the full-size .45 be far behind?

I really should have bought that 4506 "no dash" out in Worcester when I had the chance. It had been there a while and they were begging me to take it. They spoke of a substantial discount off the $575 asking price. But the sights weren't Novak and for sure they would have had to have been changed (they really sucked!). Add cost of new sights and slide machining and I couldn't bring myself to do it.

I thought a 4506-1 would come along soon enough. But so far, I am still waiting.

 

[TTSH]

I think 10mm 3rd gen guns are much more rare than any of the others. I don't know that I've ever seen one for sale in MA.

While the widest variety of 3rd gen guns is in 45, I think the largest quantity was 9mm. Maybe 40 was next, but I'm not a .40 guy, so I don't follow it too closely.

I see 4006s pop up fairly often (relative term) and there are a couple of 4516s floating around in gun shops.

I know that one very busy shop has a 908, but since I have two 3913s and a 3913TSW, I'm not interested.

At this point, a 4513TSW would be about all I'd really want. I don't expect to see one soon. Of course you never know what's going to pop up, so who knows?

I have no immediate interest in a 4513TSW (which, by the way, is on the "list" and is importable) so if I come across one in my travels, I will let you know.

Now, if I find a 4566TSW, that's a different story!

That 908 you mentioned is in damn good shape. If only I had just a little bit more money...

If time goes on and that pristine clean 4006 is still available, I may try to talk them (or, more precisely, the consignment owner) down on price. $500 is too much money, even for its very nice condition. It's a .40 after all.

Owners of 10mm 3rd Gens know they have something special and aren't going to part with them easily or cheaply, especially in MA. Not holding my breath for a 10mm. If it happens, in happens... but paying a king's ransom is not really my thing.

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

Ya'll need to move down to NC! We have beaches and mountains with flat land in between. Granted where I live it can snow one day and the next be 70 degrees and cost of living ain't to bad just stay away from the big cities like Chapel Hill, Cary and Durham. Oh, and did I mention the FOOD!

The 3rd gens are "plentiful" do to a lot of PD's having used them you just have to look for them or go online.

 

[timn8er]

Gary, I feel extremely confident in saying that when you you do find a 4513TSW, you're going to snap it up as quick as you can. I say that because you seem to be a BIG fan of the 3913TSW & the 45 will appeal to you for the same reasons. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll find one soon!

 

[GaryS]

Thanks. Although my bank account might not thank you!

Gary, I feel extremely confident in saying that when you you do find a 4513TSW, you're going to snap it up as quick as you can. I say that because you seem to be a BIG fan of the 3913TSW & the 45 will appeal to you for the same reasons. I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll find one soon!

 

[GaryS]

We need to move a bit further south. Son, daughter in law, grand kids in the Mobile area. Daughter and future son in law (we hope) in Austin.

Both are nice areas in which to live and AL is incredibly 2A friendly. Not that Texas isn't. The problem with AL is that it's not a travel hub and getting in an out is a task.

We're going next week and flying from Boston, to Chicago, to Birmingham, and then driving down to the Mobile area.

At least I'll get to look at some nice guns as my son and I like to cruise the pawn shops and window shop.

Ya'll need to move down to NC! We have beaches and mountains with flat land in between. Granted where I live it can snow one day and the next be 70 degrees and cost of living ain't to bad just stay away from the big cities like Chapel Hill, Cary and Durham. Oh, and did I mention the FOOD!

The 3rd gens are "plentiful" do to a lot of PD's having used them you just have to look for them or go online.