Of course, and performance includes transmission, rear end, fuel, etc. I was only replying to the fact that it is more than cubic inches that makes a difference.
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427 Low Riser Heads On the way!
- Thread starter Ghost Magnum
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Of course, and performance includes transmission, rear end, fuel, etc. I was only replying to the fact that it is more than cubic inches that makes a difference.
A friend of mine ran into a similar problem with a beautiful '68 Camaro he was in the process of restoring, it was originally a 396 SS and he wanted to go the Ralleye Sport way with it, found out about the Nickey cars and decided to build a Nickey tribute car. He put 5 grand into the high rise hood design, then sold off enough hoods to cover his output, the car was simply amazing which is the ultimate goal when building one of those types...they were amazing when new and did something to any motor heads mind that came close to "blowing" it up. I could be in my bedroom and feel that car coming down the street, hoping he would stop...he would stop and wait about a minute and if I didn't come hauling-XXX out to go for a ride he was off, lived two blocks away. I was in my 60's and diving out of bed, it was that cool.
In the town of Ogden, Utah when I was a kid there were few fast Fords, some little Falcons with a 260/4 speed but just about any Nova 327 would walk all over it. The fastest car in town was a Hemi Roadrunner some rich kid got for graduation, a good friend of mine's brother owned the second fastest it was a '68 Camaro 396 SS with 427 fuelie heads, I rode in that car...you could almost think you could watch the gas gauge go down when he really got on it. Another friend of mine had a 67 Fairlane with a 390, his dad sent him a track gear box from Daytona, it was fast on the top end but no quickness.
I don't know if you can keep the old high compression engines running today without being a genious at mixing fuel. The new engine management system do wonders with the garbage fuel today but those older engines of the 60's have problems with new fuel...I remember 12.5:1 compression ratios, my little hopped up .283/bored to 301 with solid lifters had 11:1 compression, it loved the hot Sunoco pump fuel in the day I think it was 100+ octane...I remember that stuff, cherry red and smelled like sin.
I enjoy Fords and have all my life... the continuing saga if your big block monster is fascinating and I am looking forward to the "range report" once back on the street... I understand the new school vs old school battle.. I only resolved my inner battle by having both a 1967 Mustang Fastback & a 2013 Boss 302
I just need to get the Fastback running again...
I just need to get the Fastback running again...
4barrel
Member
a '68 Camaro 396 SS with 427 fuelie heads, [/QUOTE]
I have seen 283 and 327 fuel injection heads but what is a 427 fuelie head? The only ones I remember on a 68 Camaro were the 375 hp with solid lifters and a Holley. The late model Camaro could be ordered with a 427 and one my good friends has one.
I have seen 283 and 327 fuel injection heads but what is a 427 fuelie head? The only ones I remember on a 68 Camaro were the 375 hp with solid lifters and a Holley. The late model Camaro could be ordered with a 427 and one my good friends has one.
REM 3200
US Veteran
But as in life, things usually aren't.
OP
Ghost Magnum
Member
Thanks everyone! It's been a blessing. In fact last year has been a emotional jurney. Getting my hands on some of the stuff and putting some work on my car kinda help take my mind off my problems. I didn't see those heads coming. My house is almost done so that frees up a lot on my budget.
I was originally going for cast aluminum edelbrock heads. But I saw these LR heads at a good price so I jumped on them. I'm going to build the engine. Find a good transmission. Work in the suspension and electrical. After all that is functional. Then I will do the body and paint. I just got to restrain myself.
I'm also going to put wider wheels in the back.
My understanding is tunnel port heads would be terrible to use in traffic. And ford ditchedthe 302 tunnel port when they started using the boss 302.
About the porch winning against all those muscle cars. That's not a car most people can afford. And muscle cars have terrible transfer of power to the rear wheels unless you got the drag pack from the factory. If I remember correctly. In fact that's a mistake I noticed on the clubs. People will build monster engines. But put no effort into upgrading the suspension.
I was originally going for cast aluminum edelbrock heads. But I saw these LR heads at a good price so I jumped on them. I'm going to build the engine. Find a good transmission. Work in the suspension and electrical. After all that is functional. Then I will do the body and paint. I just got to restrain myself.
I'm also going to put wider wheels in the back.
My understanding is tunnel port heads would be terrible to use in traffic. And ford ditchedthe 302 tunnel port when they started using the boss 302.
About the porch winning against all those muscle cars. That's not a car most people can afford. And muscle cars have terrible transfer of power to the rear wheels unless you got the drag pack from the factory. If I remember correctly. In fact that's a mistake I noticed on the clubs. People will build monster engines. But put no effort into upgrading the suspension.
OP
Ghost Magnum
Member
I didn't know there was such thing as chevy 427 fueli heads.
wheelgun28
Member
There isn't...
So-called fuelie heads were originated from the Corvette (and a select few other rare cars) equipped with the Rochester mechanical fuel injection. They had an improved port design and may have bigger valves. They can be seen when on the engine as having a "camel hump" cast into the ends of the heads. These were old old design heads and didn't have accessory holes in them. In Chevy talk, all the iron gets referred to by the last three digits of the casting number. I think the fuelie heads were 461 and 462 castings. They can be had in 1.94 / 1.5 valves or the bigger 2.02 / 1.6 valves.
Lots of these old heads got worked on but they fell out as GM made better and better heads, the O41 then the angle plug heads, and then the best the 292 "Turbo" heads.
Now aftermarket beats them all...
Big blocks, you had oval port and square port, later on, peanut port. Then you had open chamber and closed chamber combustion chambers in the heads. The open was better heads, square port open chamber heads were the ones to have for racing. Also, the square port came in iron and aluminum.
There are more aftermarket heads than can be imagined...
I had a nice 427 with oval ports, mild cam, small tube headers, and a very worked Holley 650dp. It pulled strong to around 5000.
OP
Ghost Magnum
Member
When it comes to heads. Where does good enough comes in?
And please tell more about your car that had that engine!
wheelgun28
Member
Well, this is where things get dicey...
The right way to do things is to work backward, you have a goal of an end result. Sometimes things have to be done in steps mostly due to things like money and time.
So if you want a driveable car that can take highway trips.
So you'll want an engine that can produce the most power in the lower and mid range of RPM. So with that in mind you start to select the components that work well together.
Bigger isnt better when selecting parts, slapping a giant carburetor or big tube headers will only hurt power.
The good news is that none of this is new and these roads are well established. I am sure you can find someone that has built this combination before and had great success with it.
Details are important, carb set up and igntion timing can make giant differances.
I was a Holley carb person, I had tons of parts and a good knowlede of them. I would polish parts, drill holes in areas, and mill off the choke horn. I gave away all the parts years ago and cant remember the details anymore. I could make them idle, have a crisp throttle snap and not kill the spark plugs.
My mildly warmed up 427 was in a 66 Corvette convertible, had a 3:36 axle and a wide ration Muncie. Not the fastest car by any measure, fun to drive, could go anyplace, and pretty good at light to light fun.
My recomendation is to read more, read as much as you can.
I remember some of the first books I read were "How to rebuild you small block Chevy", Then how to hot rod your sbc, and then the big blocks. I built quite a few engines back in the day, fast boats and cars.
wheelgun28
Member
Drag Racing the Porsche, I never considered them fast off the line or 1/4 mile.
The internets say 16.2 et 1/4 I am guessing a trap speed in the low 80's?
A 64 malibu with a 283 runs a 16.8 et, from similar sources.
If we get into later more powerful late sixties cars most would run high 13 seconds in bone stock form with an average driver. Yes, they could go fast add better tires etc and things improve.
Is it possible for a skilled driver with a 16-second car to knock out a car capable of a 13.90, yep... Wheelspin, poor shifting, etc
You tube has lots of muscle car drag racing videos, kinda fun to watch. Also vintage engine dyno tests, shows what things REALLY made...
The internets say 16.2 et 1/4 I am guessing a trap speed in the low 80's?
A 64 malibu with a 283 runs a 16.8 et, from similar sources.
If we get into later more powerful late sixties cars most would run high 13 seconds in bone stock form with an average driver. Yes, they could go fast add better tires etc and things improve.
Is it possible for a skilled driver with a 16-second car to knock out a car capable of a 13.90, yep... Wheelspin, poor shifting, etc
You tube has lots of muscle car drag racing videos, kinda fun to watch. Also vintage engine dyno tests, shows what things REALLY made...
Porsche 904 ran 1/4 mile in 14.5 s @ 103.0 mph, but my 409 ran in the 13s on a good day.
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Yep my first run ever in 67 with my pure stock 67 Dodge RT 440CI auto, produced a 14.30. Got it down to 13.90 by the end of the day and even won my class.
Working par time at my friends speed shop /garage the car produced constant low 12s on the strip with all that was done to it. (Headers,Eldebrock high rise manifold, Holly 3310 carb improved ignition, head work, and getting my hands on a Mopar experimental cam and kit. Tried all sorts of rear end "pumpkins" from 355 to 4,33 some suspension work and the auto tranny rebuilt to race Hemi standards.(slicks used on strip of course!) Car was tough on both street and strip and it was my year around driver for the 3 years I had it.
wheelgun28
Member
The only reason why I know much about the 904 is a high school friend had one, I think it was a 1964-1965 model. He had very rich parents.
Price back then was US$7245 FOB Germany. Only a few hundred were made and it turns out that they are now selling in the millions $$! Interesting that the car was only twice the cost of my 1963 Chevy 409, which stickered at $3500. Attached is what the 904 and my Chevy looked like back in the day.Once a month our local dragstrip had open, no class grudge drags. I went up against him a couple times in the mid-1960s. Pure stock was the only way to run in the grudge matches. My 425HP, dual quad, Powerglide ran strong in the low 14s and so a very even match. Turned out to be exactly true, won one and lost one. I remember it very clearly since he had that puny engine that only made around 150HP, but it was FAST!!
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OP
Ghost Magnum
Member
The only reason why I know much about the 904 is a high school friend had one, I think it was a 1964-1965 model. He had very rich parents.
Once a month our local dragstrip had open, no class grudge drags. I went up against him a couple times in the mid-1960s. Pure stock was the only way to run in the grudge matches. My 425HP, dual quad, Powerglide ran strong in the low 14s and so a very even match. Turned out to be exactly true, won one and lost one. I remember it very clearly since he had that puny engine that only made around 150HP, but it was FAST!!
I wouldn't be to happy that my expensive porch was evenly matched to a car that was half the cost of mine. But the 904 looks like it's a fine car.
I have seen 283 and 327 fuel injection heads but what is a 427 fuelie head? The only ones I remember on a 68 Camaro were the 375 hp with solid lifters and a Holley. The late model Camaro could be ordered with a 427 and one my good friends has one.[/QUOTE]
It was common local vernacular to refer to the heads off a 427 Corvette engine designed for fuel injection to be referred to as "fuelie" heads, much like "camel hump" exhaust. The "fuelie" heads were about the best you could do without doing a bunch of flow work, the L-88 heads were a big improvement. The COPO cars ordered from Nickey, etc. were the only 427 Camaros I saw, I don't know how late your talking. Nickey was the first to put a 427 in a Camaro, on direct order from Chevrolet...in the early years an individual could not order a 427 in a Camaro. In '68 that friend of mine could not get a 427 in a Camaro, ordered the 375 horse 396 and ordered 427 fuel injection heads seperately, it was a great combination and the only thing factory built in the county that could beat him was that special order Hemi Roadrunner...Its hard to imagine how much faster those cars would have been with the great tires they have today.
I remember coming home in '73 and my kid brother had stuck wide radial tires on his '57 TR-3 and was beating the pants off just about everybody in autocross races they used to hold in Safeway parking lots, it was the closest thing to a go-kart I ever drove.
The only reason why I know much about the 904 is a high school friend had one, I think it was a 1964-1965 model. He had very rich parents.
Once a month our local dragstrip had open, no class grudge drags. I went up against him a couple times in the mid-1960s. Pure stock was the only way to run in the grudge matches. My 425HP, dual quad, Powerglide ran strong in the low 14s and so a very even match. Turned out to be exactly true, won one and lost one. I remember it very clearly since he had that puny engine that only made around 150HP, but it was FAST!!
When I was a kid I was into sports cars and there was nothing sexier than a 904 Porsche, my kid brother got an HO scale slot car set for Christmas, I went down to the hobby shop and bought a 904 HO car to race him with...thats as close to a 904 as I ever got.
wheelgun28
Member
You've got it a bit mixed up my friend...
The only fuel-injected engines were 283 and 327 small blocks from 57 to 65. It was a mechanical system made by Rochester, they made several variations of it. "Rochester Ram Jet"
The "Camel Hump head" was a cast in small block head marking
The exhaust was a "rams horn manifold" used on Corvettes and some others at the time.
"L-88 Heads" were aluminum square port heads made in both open and closed chambers depending on the years. Same heads as the L-89.
If you search the phrases I have in "quotes" you'll see photos and find discussion on all of them it's kinda fun to read!
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Ah well, its best to stay out of discussions where I'm confused about technicalities. I appreciate getting straightened out when I'm wrong. Keeps me honest. It was a bitchin engine...
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