427 Low Riser Heads On the way!

[wheelgun28]

Drag Racing the Porsche, I never considered them fast off the line or 1/4 mile.

The internets say 16.2 et 1/4 I am guessing a trap speed in the low 80's?

A 64 malibu with a 283 runs a 16.8 et, from similar sources.

If we get into later more powerful late sixties cars most would run high 13 seconds in bone stock form with an average driver. Yes, they could go fast add better tires etc and things improve.

Is it possible for a skilled driver with a 16-second car to knock out a car capable of a 13.90, yep... Wheelspin, poor shifting, etc

You tube has lots of muscle car drag racing videos, kinda fun to watch. Also vintage engine dyno tests, shows what things REALLY made...

 

[glowe]

Drag Racing the Porsche, I never considered them fast off the line or 1/4 mile.

The internets say 16.2 et 1/4 I am guessing a trap speed in the low 80's?

A 64 malibu with a 283 runs a 16.8 et, from similar sources.

Porsche 904 ran 1/4 mile in 14.5 s @ 103.0 mph, but my 409 ran in the 13s on a good day.

 

[NYlakesider]

Drag Racing the Porsche, I never considered them fast off the line or 1/4 mile.

The internets say 16.2 et 1/4 I am guessing a trap speed in the low 80's?

A 64 malibu with a 283 runs a 16.8 et, from similar sources.

If we get into later more powerful late sixties cars most would run high 13 seconds in bone stock form with an average driver. Yes, they could go fast add better tires etc and things improve.

Is it possible for a skilled driver with a 16-second car to knock out a car capable of a 13.90, yep... Wheelspin, poor shifting, etc

You tube has lots of muscle car drag racing videos, kinda fun to watch. Also vintage engine dyno tests, shows what things REALLY made...

Yep my first run ever in 67 with my pure stock 67 Dodge RT 440CI auto, produced a 14.30. Got it down to 13.90 by the end of the day and even won my class.

Working par time at my friends speed shop /garage the car produced constant low 12s on the strip with all that was done to it. (Headers,Eldebrock high rise manifold, Holly 3310 carb improved ignition, head work, and getting my hands on a Mopar experimental cam and kit. Tried all sorts of rear end "pumpkins" from 355 to 4,33 some suspension work and the auto tranny rebuilt to race Hemi standards.(slicks used on strip of course!) Car was tough on both street and strip and it was my year around driver for the 3 years I had it.

 

[wheelgun28]

Porsche 904 ran 1/4 mile in 14.5 s @ 103.0 mph, but my 409 ran in the 13s on a good day.

Interesting, I never knew about the 904, Wikipedia has a long write up.
Thanks!

 

[glowe]

Interesting, I never knew about the 904, Wikipedia has a long write up.
Thanks!

The only reason why I know much about the 904 is a high school friend had one, I think it was a 1964-1965 model. He had very rich parents. Price back then was US$7245 FOB Germany. Only a few hundred were made and it turns out that they are now selling in the millions $$! Interesting that the car was only twice the cost of my 1963 Chevy 409, which stickered at $3500. Attached is what the 904 and my Chevy looked like back in the day.

Once a month our local dragstrip had open, no class grudge drags. I went up against him a couple times in the mid-1960s. Pure stock was the only way to run in the grudge matches. My 425HP, dual quad, Powerglide ran strong in the low 14s and so a very even match. Turned out to be exactly true, won one and lost one. I remember it very clearly since he had that puny engine that only made around 150HP, but it was FAST!!

 

[Ghost Magnum]

The only reason why I know much about the 904 is a high school friend had one, I think it was a 1964-1965 model. He had very rich parents. Price back then was US$7245 FOB Germany. Only a few hundred were made and it turns out that they are now selling in the millions $$! Interesting that the car was only twice the cost of my 1963 Chevy 409, which stickered at $3500. Attached is what the 904 and my Chevy looked like back in the day.

Once a month our local dragstrip had open, no class grudge drags. I went up against him a couple times in the mid-1960s. Pure stock was the only way to run in the grudge matches. My 425HP, dual quad, Powerglide ran strong in the low 14s and so a very even match. Turned out to be exactly true, won one and lost one. I remember it very clearly since he had that puny engine that only made around 150HP, but it was FAST!!

I wouldn't be to happy that my expensive porch was evenly matched to a car that was half the cost of mine. But the 904 looks like it's a fine car.

 

[Kinman]

a '68 Camaro 396 SS with 427 fuelie heads,

I have seen 283 and 327 fuel injection heads but what is a 427 fuelie head? The only ones I remember on a 68 Camaro were the 375 hp with solid lifters and a Holley. The late model Camaro could be ordered with a 427 and one my good friends has one.[/QUOTE]

It was common local vernacular to refer to the heads off a 427 Corvette engine designed for fuel injection to be referred to as "fuelie" heads, much like "camel hump" exhaust. The "fuelie" heads were about the best you could do without doing a bunch of flow work, the L-88 heads were a big improvement. The COPO cars ordered from Nickey, etc. were the only 427 Camaros I saw, I don't know how late your talking. Nickey was the first to put a 427 in a Camaro, on direct order from Chevrolet...in the early years an individual could not order a 427 in a Camaro. In '68 that friend of mine could not get a 427 in a Camaro, ordered the 375 horse 396 and ordered 427 fuel injection heads seperately, it was a great combination and the only thing factory built in the county that could beat him was that special order Hemi Roadrunner...Its hard to imagine how much faster those cars would have been with the great tires they have today.
I remember coming home in '73 and my kid brother had stuck wide radial tires on his '57 TR-3 and was beating the pants off just about everybody in autocross races they used to hold in Safeway parking lots, it was the closest thing to a go-kart I ever drove.

 

[Kinman]

The only reason why I know much about the 904 is a high school friend had one, I think it was a 1964-1965 model. He had very rich parents. Price back then was US$7245 FOB Germany. Only a few hundred were made and it turns out that they are now selling in the millions $$! Interesting that the car was only twice the cost of my 1963 Chevy 409, which stickered at $3500. Attached is what the 904 and my Chevy looked like back in the day.

Once a month our local dragstrip had open, no class grudge drags. I went up against him a couple times in the mid-1960s. Pure stock was the only way to run in the grudge matches. My 425HP, dual quad, Powerglide ran strong in the low 14s and so a very even match. Turned out to be exactly true, won one and lost one. I remember it very clearly since he had that puny engine that only made around 150HP, but it was FAST!!

When I was a kid I was into sports cars and there was nothing sexier than a 904 Porsche, my kid brother got an HO scale slot car set for Christmas, I went down to the hobby shop and bought a 904 HO car to race him with...thats as close to a 904 as I ever got.

 

[wheelgun28]

It was common local vernacular to refer to the heads off a 427 Corvette engine designed for fuel injection to be referred to as "fuelie" heads, much like "camel hump" exhaust. The "fuelie" heads were about the best you could do without doing a bunch of flow work, the L-88 heads were a big improvement.

You've got it a bit mixed up my friend...

The only fuel-injected engines were 283 and 327 small blocks from 57 to 65. It was a mechanical system made by Rochester, they made several variations of it. "Rochester Ram Jet"

The "Camel Hump head" was a cast in small block head marking

The exhaust was a "rams horn manifold" used on Corvettes and some others at the time.

"L-88 Heads" were aluminum square port heads made in both open and closed chambers depending on the years. Same heads as the L-89.

If you search the phrases I have in "quotes" you'll see photos and find discussion on all of them it's kinda fun to read!

 

[Kinman]

Ah well, its best to stay out of discussions where I'm confused about technicalities. I appreciate getting straightened out when I'm wrong. Keeps me honest. It was a bitchin engine...

 

[wheelgun28]

Ah well, its best to stay out of discussions where I'm confused about technicalities. I appreciate getting straightened out when I'm wrong. Keeps me honest. It was a bitchin engine...

Don't give it a second thought, time plays tricks on us all.

I am an old Chevy guy I spent too long studying part numbers and years made. Years ago I could give you the casting numbers of heads, blocks, and years that they were used on what, I have forgotten most of it.


According to my wife, I get everything mixed up, all the time.

Reminds me of a story my dad would tell. He had a 76 Cadillac back in the day. It was a the peak of Caddy size and had a 500 cid engine. Anyhow, he would tell on how long highway trips it would get 17mpg, eventually, over the years it worked up to over 20, then 24 mpg.

I said, Dad in a few more years you'll be telling how your car was making gas as you drove down the highway. You'll be saying how you had to take the gas cap off to let the gas out as you drove down the road and how it left a trail of gas down the highway. Needless to say, he didn't appreciate my attempt at humor...

He wasn't fibbing to the story, things just change over time. For dad, the problem was he was only in his forties when telling the story...

 

[Ghost Magnum]

Don't give it a second thought, time plays tricks on us all.

I am an old Chevy guy I spent too long studying part numbers and years made. Years ago I could give you the casting numbers of heads, blocks, and years that they were used on what, I have forgotten most of it.


According to my wife, I get everything mixed up, all the time.

Reminds me of a story my dad would tell. He had a 76 Cadillac back in the day. It was a the peak of Caddy size and had a 500 cid engine. Anyhow, he would tell on how long highway trips it would get 17mpg, eventually, over the years it worked up to over 20, then 24 mpg.

I said, Dad in a few more years you'll be telling how your car was making gas as you drove down the highway. You'll be saying how you had to take the gas cap off to let the gas out as you drove down the road and how it left a trail of gas down the highway. Needless to say, he didn't appreciate my attempt at humor...

He wasn't fibbing to the story, things just change over time. For dad, the problem was he was only in his forties when telling the story...

Lol. I bet that car only got 12 miles per gallon at the most!

My heads comes in today. I will post pictures soon!

 

[Doug M.]

FWIW, I saw a video on youtube today that had a Shelby aluminum block for the FE series. I'm sure it is a lot of money ... but fascinating.

 

[4barrel]

I laughed to myself at the post about the power glide 425 hp 409. 340 hp low compression was all you could order with a power glide. Maybe someone trashed the tranny and installed a power slide. I know a guy that ordered a 426 Hemi and drove a few months and installed a 318 wrecking yard motor and let it go back. The motor ended up in a 1940 Willis drag car with a clutch flight.

 

[4barrel]

Lol. I bet that car only got 12 miles per gallon at the most!

My heads comes in today. I will post pictures soon!

Mine got 13.5 mph if I went to church and drove slow.

 

[glowe]

I laughed to myself at the post about the power glide 425 hp 409. 340 hp low compression was all you could order with a power glide. Maybe someone trashed the tranny and installed a power slide. I know a guy that ordered a 426 Hemi and drove a few months and installed a 318 wrecking yard motor and let it go back. The motor ended up in a 1940 Willis drag car with a clutch flight.

I owned it, the car was refitted with a Powerglide at the dealership by the previous owner before I bought it. The car had been to the dragstrip since it was new with that owner. Dealer said they replaced the 4 speed with a Powerglide at the owners request a year before I bought it. I assume that he wanted better times. After all, the Powerglide was considered to be the ultimate in those days and decades after dragsters were still using Powerglide transmissions.

Hardly ever had a problem with the car, except one cracked piston that made you think the engine had blown until the mechanic found the problem. Transmission never had any issues and yes 13 MPG was a good day. I recall my first set of rear tires lasted 3,000 miles!!

 

[NYlakesider]

I owned it, the car was refitted with a Powerglide at the dealership by the previous owner before I bought it. The car had been to the dragstrip since it was new with that owner. Dealer said they replaced the 4 speed with a Powerglide at the owners request a year before I bought it. I assume that he wanted better times. After all, the Powerglide was considered to be the ultimate in those days and decades after dragsters were still using Powerglide transmissions.

Well anything is possible if you have the money to do it. The power glide was a strong transmission and the fact it only had to make one shift per run helped get a time.

As far as the ultimate I along with many old times will tell you that the Chrysler torgueflite was the best auto trans out there in that era. Once GM came out with a 3 speed box they put it in more and more cars.

They made a few different models of that torgueflite box and if you had one for a big block car it was very strong and dependable.

I had two dodges I ran in the 60s one a 383 and of course my modded 440 and I loved my torguflite. As I said before in another post I had my trans built to race Hemi specks to build a even better box. My car was quite powerful and I ran it hard, the race Hemi was its best and last trans I had to get. It was still running great when I got rid of my Mopar! (got married)

 

[Retired W4]

In 1970 I would run my 69 Roadrunner at the NHRA track in Dothan, AL 383 with 440 heads and a 4-speed ran in F Pure Stock. The one car that would eventually kick my butt was the Torino Cobra, 428 CobraJet. Some body was stretching the truth on power to weight. Then in the 80's I bought one of the machines that always beat me, a 69 Torino Cobra, 10 bolt top loader. It was a screamer. Sold it last year to an old high school buddy of mine who is in the process of restoring it. Here it is going to it's new home in TN.

 

[glowe]

We can go on and on claiming what is best, but in reality, there are way too many variables to make a determination of Torqueflite vs Powerglide. Put the cars on the track or strip and that is reality. I do know that power loss is less with Powerglide than almost any other auto transmission. From the chart below, Powerglide loses 18 HP and the 727 Torqueflight loses 45 HP and that difference is substantial, but all data is subject to caveats and criticism.

Powerglide--18
904---------25
C4----------28
TH-350------36
TH-400------44
727---------45
Ford C6-----55

Personally, I found the PG excellent at the dragstrip, but would have preferred a three or four speed for driving. RPMs at highway speeds were high. Can't remember exactly, but want to say 3000 RPMs at 60 MPH?

 

[4barrel]

We can go on and on claiming what is best, but in reality, there are way too many variables to make a determination of Torqueflite vs Powerglide. Put the cars on the track or strip and that is reality. I do know that power loss is less with Powerglide than almost any other auto transmission. From the chart below, Powerglide loses 18 HP and the 727 Torqueflight loses 45 HP and that difference is substantial, but all data is subject to caveats and criticism.

Powerglide--18
904---------25
C4----------28
TH-350------36
TH-400------44
727---------45
Ford C6-----55

Personally, I found the PG excellent at the dragstrip, but would have preferred a three or four speed for driving. RPMs at highway speeds were high. Can't remember exactly, but want to say 3000 RPMs at 60 MPH?

I like the blue car. Who installed the vinyl top? Glad all that is straightened out. 3000 rpms at 60 means it had a 370 rear end. A 425 hp probably had a locking rear. Power glides had a 170 low gear and the 4 speed had a 256. They were all the same in high gear.

 

[Ghost Magnum]

I got them in yesterday while I was at work.
I pulled them out and looked at them just morning. I never seen a FE head in person off a engine. So I don't know what they look like raw and unpolished. But the ports are rough and the thumb prints are crisp. There is groves that are not machine out. Ford stamps still on it. I can tell that these were very high quality heads back in the day. All and all. I am excited I got my hands on them. This 427 will be a monster!
These things are heavy. A cast iron timing chain cover came with my engine. I might track down a cast aluminum cover. And try to cut back on wight.
Gasket prints are still on them. I grease them up to provent rust. I don't know what I'm going to do with those spark plugs. I thought about removing them myself. But I might let a machine shop deal with them.

 

[glowe]

All I know is that it was very noisy at 70 mph on the expressway, especially with the windows down. The car had a standard painted top at the lot and the salesman talked me into a spray vinyl top since by 1966 vinyl tops were getting popular with the option being put on quite a few early Mustangs. Since the roof style was that of a convertible hardtop, it seemed appropriate. Did look good and lasted for years. Unlike true vinyl tops, it actually protected the paint, so no rust and could be blasted back to metal if wanted.

All in all, it was a great car. Dealer replaced the console so the auto shifter fit correctly and of course removed the clutch and bracket. Had the proper small shifter lever with a little white plastic knob.

It also had cut-outs just behind the front wheels so, at night the blue flames ware very impressive.

 

[4barrel]

Let the plugs soak with wd40. The plugs are steel and the heads iron. Use an impact socket and start slow. I broke 3 plug sockets on one 390 motor. The rear plugs on cylinders 3 & 4 were always the hardest to break loose for me. For some reason the large thread plugs in a big block Ford are the hardest to remove than any motor unless you change them often.

 

[Ghost Magnum]

Let the plugs soak with wd40. The plugs are steel and the heads iron. Use an impact socket and start slow. I broke 3 plug sockets on one 390 motor. The rear plugs on cylinders 3 & 4 were always the hardest to break loose for me. For some reason the large thread plugs in a big block Ford are the hardest to remove than any motor unless you change them often.

I know a guy that had the same problems with those two plugs on a 352. I just want to be careful.
Thank you!

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