44 Crimp and Xtreme Plated Bullets

[radtuck]

I've been reading a bit about the crimp on plated bullets, and I have a question. I'm planning on buying 500 plated 240 gr. FP from Xtreme Bullets. My load will be 7 grains of Universal, using a Winchester LPP. I have a pretty heavy crimp set for jacketed and SWC. Will I have to adjust the crimp for the plated bullets, or will it work at the same setting?

 

[Nemo288]

I would not use a heavy crimp.
I actually use a taper crimp on plated bullets, even the Xtreme that has a cannelure.
Using a separate crimp die makes things a lot easier to set up.
With sufficient neck tension the crimp is not really needed.
I know this opinion may be controversial but I have never had a bullet pull out
and I have been backing off on crimps for years until they are pretty token efforts.
Just enough to get rid of the bell mouth.
For a full magnum: yeah, but target loads: not so much.
Check your expander stem and make sure it's in the -.002" range.

Good luck with your loads and let us know how they turn out.
7gr Universal and a 240 has worked well here BTW.
In fact 6.5-7 grains works well in the 44 special as well under a number of bullets.
Notice the 696-1 shoots better than the 624 due to smaller chamber throats.

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Nemo

 

[SLT223]

You can use more than a taper crimp on those. I've shot thousands of them. I use a slight roll crimp. I inadvertently used a heavy roll crimp on some because I forgot to reset the crimp die after loading full power XTP's. No ill effect observed on accuracy or leading, but totally unnecessary and I wouldn't do intentionally for the sake of the brass.

 

[radtuck]

Thanks, guys.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Like Nemo said, don't use a heavy roll crimp. I too use a taper crimp die & just enough to eliminate any flare. About .449-.450" at the case mouth. Their cannelure is mainly to reference seating depth & add a bit of grip, not a groove.

Extreme's website says to use a light taper crimp. Don't forget to keep them below 1200fps.

I just bought a box of those 240gr RNFP Extremes & they seem like they'll be good for the range. I've liked all the ones I've gotten so far from them.

.

 

[MJFlores]

I've been shooting a lot of Berry's plated over 8 grains of HP38 in my .44 mag. I started with a very slight crimp, and kept slightly increasing until I could load 6 in the cylinder, fire 5 and measure the remaining unfired 6th round and see no growth or up to a thousandths or 2. MY die is a Redding taper crimp die. I like to use just enough crimp and not too much...so you don't crush the thin plating or over work the case mouth. You could probably crimp tighter than I am, but why would you as it's not needed. I get excellent accuracy with the load and crimp tension I'm using too.

 

[Erich]

These are not .44s (they're .38s), but I thought folks might be interested to see the crimp I apply to my plated bullet loads. This is a comparison photo of a pretty light roll crimp from the Lee FCD (what I use with light, plated bullet loads - on the left), and an uncrimped, just-loaded bullet (on the right). You can see there's a crimp, but it's not so bad that it'll mess with the integrity of the plating.

 

[Nemo288]

Cool. Although I would call the LFC more of a collet crimp.
That looks to be similar to what some of the rest of us are doing too.
My camera being an early digital SLR has trouble getting that close to stuff.

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Nemo

 

[scooter123]

I actually tried to mess up the plating on an Extreme bullet when I first started loading with plated bullets and it was a total failure. Even when the crimp was hard enough to buckle a 38 special case the pulled bullet from that experiment resulted in a bullet with a groove about as deep as the cannelure on an XTP but no lead showing under a 20X loupe.

Since that experiment I use the same crimp on my plated bullets as I would with a jacketed bullet and have not had one single indication of any loss in the integrity of the plating. No loss in accuracy and no sudden emergence in leading in many thousands of rounds sent downrange.

Note, I do not normally use what some might consider a "heavy" crimp because use of a heavy crimp will accelerate the work hardening at the mouth of the case. So, I don't disagree with those advising a somewhat light crimp except in my case it's due to my trying to extend case life rather than any concern about damaging the plating on a Rainier, Berry's, or Extreme plated bullet. All of these makers take the time to apply a good effective layer of plating that is probably nearly as durable as traditional jacketing.

I will also note that there is one exception to my use of rather light crimps and that is with my 357 Magnum loads using H110. My experience with H110 is that a fairly heavy crimp is needed to establish a good burn and produce accurate ammunition.

 

[Magload]

In a email with Berry's I was told that my crimps should not even dent the plating as it may effect accuracy. Don

 

[edmeloy]

I use W296 28.0grs with 200grs. X Tremes. I also apply a decent crimp. (roll) These fly pretty good.
However can't find a powder to make them flying good on less power.
Last I used 10.8grs N320. Chronometer said 56 feet difference between fastest and slowest round. (20 shots) Deviation 23. However the group has horrified. A circle of 7". Despite shooting out of ransom rest. (25m)
Can't make them good. Tried already many thngs. Guess I'll go back to W296.

 

[Rule3]

Cool. Although I would call the LFC more of a collet crimp.
That looks to be similar to what some of the rest of us are doing too.
My camera being an early digital SLR has trouble getting that close to stuff.

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Nemo

LFCD die for revolvers roll crimps. For semi autos it taper crimps just like a seating/crimp die. The LFC die for rifles is a collet crimper.

For the roll crimp and taper it can be set from little to heavy.

 

[Magload]

Setting the LFCD from little to heavy and checking velocity and accuracy is one thing I have not done. I try to set it at a point when it doesn't indent the bullets I am using. Don

 

[Rule3]

You can indent the bullet a little, just do not crack the plating. In a plated bullet using either the dreaded LFCD or a regular die in a revolver the die roll crimps so you can in effect make your own shallow cannelure.
Crimp some test rounds and pull the bullet see how much indent you made.

It's not rice paper grasshopper

 

[aurora40]

I also crimp them reasonably hard, and also see no cracking of the plating or really even crushing of the cannelure with a 10x loupe.

 

[Magload]

You can indent the bullet a little, just do not crack the plating. In a plated bullet using either the dreaded LFCD or a regular die in a revolver the die roll crimps so you can in effect make your own shallow cannelure.
Crimp some test rounds and pull the bullet see how much indent you made.

It's not rice paper grasshopper

When I contacted Berry's they told me any time I could see any indent in the plating it could effect accuracy so to take no chances for target rounds i back of slightly normally only crimping till the bell is gone and you can run your finger from bullet to case with out feeling a sharp edge. For my revolver loads it a different crimp. Don

 

[e3mrk]

I Set My Lee Die for a mild Roll Crimp and have had great success with My reloads.