.45 ACP: What is it good for? Absolutely nothing?
- Thread starter Echo40
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notsofast
Member
I have one .45 cal handgun, it’s a 1933 Colt 1911. I always look forward to shooting it.
Bill Lear
Member
In keeping with your opening request I'd like to advance my own positives about the 45 auto cartridge.
Being relatively low pressure, but large bore with a huge bullet, even in FMJ profile, the round is powerful enough. It's worth nothing that the specification for the 45 auto cartridge - 230 grain "ball" at 840 fps is almost spot on to that of the Schofield cartridge almost a half century earlier - 230 grain "ball" (lead) at around 800 fps. Even better, is that while the original spec 45 Colt loads were 255 grain slugs over 40 grains of FFFg Black in a balloon head case, the Army soon thereafter "de-rated" it to a 230 grain "ball" (lead) over just 28 grains of FFFg black! Bear in mind these loads reflect the thinking and experience of people who saw them used in action. Back then, a SAA could find itself used in a primary role due to it's ability to fire six shots before reloading, compared to the single-shot Trapdoor that lasted almost into the 20th Century.
The bottom line of this is, a 45 auto is a potent cartridge WITHOUT any modern "bullet magic." Something to think about. Those big, blunt FMJ bullets displace a lot of tissue, and though the military uses FMJ bullets, there is no reason one cannot just as easily use cast lead slugs which feed just fine, and again, in the 45 auto, don't even have to be pushed to get power! So basically, you can think of a 1911 as an 8-shot version of the venerable 45 Colt! Of course today we have higher capacity, lighter pistols chambered in the 45 Auto - Glock 21 with 14 rounds standard comes to mind.
In head-to-head comparisons, the 45 auto gives a very good showing compared to the 10mm - as they say in drag racing, "there ain't no substitute for cubic inches!"
In the modern world, with modern bullets such as the Hornady XTP, the 45 auto produces some of the best expansion possible in gelatin tests! Even so, if all you had was "ball" ammo, few would feel under-armed. With the smaller bores, this is not the case.
Plus, the 45 is an excellent foundation cartridge for adding more power - 45 Super, and even the 460 Rowland with appropriate gun mods or setup. Consider the tremendous difference in ballistic power when the 45 auto is loaded to chamber pressures equal with the 9mm! Then consider how drastic would be the loss of power of the 9mm if loaded down to 45 auto pressures! Oh wait, that's the 38 Special!
Way back during the Federal magazine ban, 9mm handguns became a lot less popular for one reason - and we all remember the phrase: "If I can only have 10 shots I want 10 BIG shots!" For many people, if they can only carry 10 shots in a 9mm, versus just 8 in a 1911, they'll take the 1911. That's the "comfort" of the bigger bore.
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Many accounts by GIs of .45 picking a man up off his feet and knocking them down. Too many one hit stops to ignore. Too many failures of 9mm by our servicemen to ignore.
BLUF, the .45 ACP is the best manstopper yet and the M1911A1 the greatest warsman's pistol in human history. Nothing since has equalled the effectiveness of that combo. PERIOD.
BLUF, the .45 ACP is the best manstopper yet and the M1911A1 the greatest warsman's pistol in human history. Nothing since has equalled the effectiveness of that combo. PERIOD.
As Paul Harvey would say, "... and now for the rest of the story."
Yes, many types of US issued ammo proved ineffective against the Moros, but ...
From what I remember from my history classes:
1) the Moros were more indigenous Indians common to the Philippines, not a super race.
2) before the Moros attacked an enemy, they tied a damp leather-like constriction band at each joint to minimize blood loss, and keep them in the fight.
3) before engaging in any type of fight with an enemy, they indulged in some form of ceremonial drug use that "numbed their body" so they never felt or acknowledged wounds, even fatal hits and their bodies maintained momentum to continue the attack.
Today, we can compare our resident drug addicts to the Moros. How effective are the garden variety self defense rounds in the US against drug crazed attackers? If the garden variety druggie was as smart as a Moro, would your self defense cartridge of choice be as effective as FBI studies suggest, or any of us want to believe.
Personally, I will opt for either a 45 or 357 Magnum aimed center of mass against a drug crazed attacker any day, and throw in a pelvis shot for good measure!
I spent a few years in the military, and I can certainly believe that some folks, particularly those who had never seen anyone shot, would tell such stories. It is a little harder to fathom that anyone who had gone to high school would believe such tales, yet I'm sure that that is true, also.
Still doesn't change the facts. Never happened.
Starting in the 60's, Moro-like adversaries reappeared in the U.S. in the form of crazed drug addicts and complaints about a .38 started up again; this time the.38 Special. Nothing disables these people unless a very important structure is penetrated by whatever, service caliber, handgun bullet. I doubt that a .45 caliber bullet would have any measurable increase in effect on individuals who are, in effect, anesthetized. Because of bad timing, the .38 caliber bullet was given a bad reputation it never deserved.
It's hard to imagine that someone would actually think that the thread title represented what the thread was about.
The nerve of some people!
EarlB
Member
I don't really care what any gun writer ever writes when it comes to caliber selection or what's "hot".
My first self defense pistols were 9mm. When 40 S&W became the new thing I moved to that caliber. Somewhere afterwards I bought my first .45 acp. Since that day, I've never been without one or more. I do still have 9mm in the rotation when I need something really small in my pocket that can still get the job done. But other than that it will always be a .45
I don't care what is ever written. All it takes is a few range sessions and shooting things to see the difference between a 9mm, .40 S&W and a .45 If I have to shoot someone (and thank God I never have) - I want a massive wound channel created by a nearly 1/2" 230gr slug that expands larger than any 9mm can ever dream of.
I just bought my latest .45 this past weekend. A FNX 45 Tactical...16 rounds of flying ashtrays to throw at whatever needs killing...I have got to get out to the range with this thing.
Earl
My first self defense pistols were 9mm. When 40 S&W became the new thing I moved to that caliber. Somewhere afterwards I bought my first .45 acp. Since that day, I've never been without one or more. I do still have 9mm in the rotation when I need something really small in my pocket that can still get the job done. But other than that it will always be a .45
I don't care what is ever written. All it takes is a few range sessions and shooting things to see the difference between a 9mm, .40 S&W and a .45 If I have to shoot someone (and thank God I never have) - I want a massive wound channel created by a nearly 1/2" 230gr slug that expands larger than any 9mm can ever dream of.
I just bought my latest .45 this past weekend. A FNX 45 Tactical...16 rounds of flying ashtrays to throw at whatever needs killing...I have got to get out to the range with this thing.
Earl
...
I just bought my latest .45 this past weekend. A FNX 45 Tactical...16 rounds of flying ashtrays to throw at whatever needs killing...I have got to get out to the range with this thing.
Earl
Ohh, you're going to love that gun. I've had my FNX 45T for over three years, with 6,700 rounds through it. It's totally reliable and extremely accurate, especially with a red dot. I put a Vortex Venom 3 moa red dot on mine, and the bullet goes where the dot is. If I don't hit what I'm aiming at, it's my fault, not the 45T's or the Venom's. The trigger in DA is a long reach, but in SA it is just right for me with a reasonably short 4.5 lb pull.
My 45T has been totally problem-free. The only glitches I experienced were during my first shooting session. The low-powered Lawman and Winchester White Box ammo I started with, failed to cycle properly in the new, tight gun, resulting in some failures to eject and lock back on empty. I switched to stronger ammo, American Eagle, and Winchester Service Grade, and everything went perfectly after that. By 500 rounds it was completely broken in and it has shot all manner of ammo, even the weaker stuff, without issue ever since. So be sure to take some hotter rounds with you for use in your first session.
Enjoy your new FNX 45T!
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Echo40
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The thread title is posed as a question, so folks taking it as a statement is bad enough.
However, what really bothers me are the folks who are so incredibly lazy that they post without reading anything more than the thread title.
So yeah, I take offense to someone who:
- Apparently does understand the purpose of question marks.
- Has such an absurdly short attention span that they overlook bold, color-coded text.
- Posts in threads without actually reading the opening post.
Shame on me for expecting people to actually read on a web-forum, I suppose.
.45 ACP is accurate, easy to load and a pleasure to shoot. Aside from that, if 230 grains of GI hardball from an M1911A1 had not saved a young tanker's hide some fifty years ago there would be no old tanker. More than enough reason to appreciate John Browning's pistol and cartridge.
jwk
Member
No handgun round is a 100% stopper. 45 may be better than 9mm (I think it is) but if averages say a 2nd shot required, that 2nd shot usually comes faster w a low recoiling 9mm.
FBI choice is based on not hiring gunfighters anymore. 9mm is easier for non-gun people to qualify with. 9mm ammo also costs less.
Personally if I knew I had to go to a gunfight w a handgun I want 2 1911s and some spare magazines. If I can't have a 1911, give me a couple of 625s or 629s w Specials or M27s. Only if I can't have those do I want a 9mm. For a 9mm I want a BHP or a Sig 250 because it has a trigger close to a DA revolver.
Why 2 pistols? I can draw faster than I can reload. Arm or hand hit, gun gets dropped maybe. Easier to draw weak hand than look for 1st gun on ground.
Finally if I knew I was going to have to go to a gunfight I would raise hell w the guy who wouldn't let me have a long gun.
FBI choice is based on not hiring gunfighters anymore. 9mm is easier for non-gun people to qualify with. 9mm ammo also costs less.
Personally if I knew I had to go to a gunfight w a handgun I want 2 1911s and some spare magazines. If I can't have a 1911, give me a couple of 625s or 629s w Specials or M27s. Only if I can't have those do I want a 9mm. For a 9mm I want a BHP or a Sig 250 because it has a trigger close to a DA revolver.
Why 2 pistols? I can draw faster than I can reload. Arm or hand hit, gun gets dropped maybe. Easier to draw weak hand than look for 1st gun on ground.
Finally if I knew I was going to have to go to a gunfight I would raise hell w the guy who wouldn't let me have a long gun.
HamHands
Member
Bullet profile plays a real factor as well. While a ball/round nose pill pushes and nudges tissue aside... A flat and wide meplate tends to crush tissue, stays nose forward, and pounds thru bone well especially when in a hard cast construction. A .45ACP moving 900fps with a meplate of 75% or greater than the total diameter of the bullet makes for a damned good projectile when put into center mass!
6.5 grains of Unique will drive a 230 grain lead truncated cone bullet at 910 fps from my Combat Commander. The load has proven accurate and reliable in all my pistols. I used this load to shoot IPSC and club officials never had to check the chrono to know it made major.
It's only been used to kill a couple of whitetails, and some nuisance critters around the farm, so far. I am confident it will do what it needs to do when called upon.
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max503
Member
I've only had 45's all my life. I've never had a 9mm. Last time I went to the range and shot a box of 45's out of my Commander my hand was fatigued. I'm 64.
Reduced recoil don't sound like such a bad idea to me.
I know where there's a CZ 75B in good shape for $450 and I'm thinking of getting it.
Reduced recoil don't sound like such a bad idea to me.
I know where there's a CZ 75B in good shape for $450 and I'm thinking of getting it.
mike from st pete
Member
Any bullet over .36 is a waste of lead.
I.E. 9mm, 38, 357, I just round up to the near hundredth
I.E. 9mm, 38, 357, I just round up to the near hundredth
As far as 9mm pistols go, the CZ75 has a LOT to recommend it. You ought to give it a good try. I am 70, no arthritis in my hands, yet, but I picked up a CZ-75 in Germany many years ago. I will likely go to it if I ever put up the Commander.
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For concealed carry I generally use a subcompact 9mm, for woods-bumming I'll carry either a .357 or .44 magnum revolver, but for sheer shooting enjoyment I'll take the .45 ACP every time. No other pistol caliber provides me as much enjoyment, especially in a finely tuned 1911 or in either my S&W 25-2 or S&W 625 JM. In addition, the .45 auto is a joy to handload for, with an almost endless variety of suitable powders and lead and jacketed bullets for making wonderfully accurate loads.
I'm willing to accept that there is likely little difference in stopping power between a 9mm, a .40 S&W, or a .45 ACP when using modern defensive ammunition, but I'm also aware that all three are woefully underpowered compared to a defensive shotgun load or to most centerfire rifle calibers.
For me the .45 Auto is very accurate, easy to shoot, has relatively mild recoil, and delivers a satisfying thump to anything I'm likely to shoot at.
I'm willing to accept that there is likely little difference in stopping power between a 9mm, a .40 S&W, or a .45 ACP when using modern defensive ammunition, but I'm also aware that all three are woefully underpowered compared to a defensive shotgun load or to most centerfire rifle calibers.
For me the .45 Auto is very accurate, easy to shoot, has relatively mild recoil, and delivers a satisfying thump to anything I'm likely to shoot at.
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