4516-1 vs 1911 ??

[cherrypointmarine]

I know it's out of your price range , but look at a 945 . Not the same , but a lot alike . I have several , and they shoot like you wouldn't believe . I don't know if Colt even makes a 1911 that compares with them or an 845 .

 

[clang444]

If I was going to carry a .45 that size, I would seriously consider the Sig P220. Mine is an older West German made gun. The alloy frame saves weight and it is absolutely reliable with any ammo I've tried. Accuracy is also top of the line.

For S&W 3rd gens, I would look at the 4513 to save some weight. I almost bought a 4513TSW several years ago at a gun show, but the guy in front of me beat me to it.

 

[smithra_66]

You will not be sorry with the 1911. It is the best 45 Auto platform ever developed.

You don't have to fumble with decocking levers and you get a brilliant, consistent trigger pull for every shot.

There are plenty of 1911s in the sub 1000 area, Springfield comes to mind.

If you get a quality 1911 running well, you'll forget all about any other 45 you have.

 

[smithra_66]

In your listed price range, no 1911 will compare to your 4516 in terms of reliability and durability. Especially if you're looking for a compact similar to the 4516. I say this as someone with 35 years of professional 1911 experience. If nothing else, don't get rid of the 4516 to pay for the 1911, you'll regret it.

I would disagree with this. Durability? An all steel 1911 is about as durable as it gets. It also has probably the most parts availability and gunsmith know-how of any pistol in history. It's super simple to work on anything you need at home too. You can get a pretty nice one for his stated max of a grand.

Reliability? Well, you need to make sure you get the right mags and such, but once you do, the 1911 is EXTREMELY reliable.

The 4516 is a nice gun. The 1911 is a legend. There's a reason for that.

 

[18DAI]

"IF you get a quality 1911 running well..." Big IF.

 

[Tntcwg3]

I know it's out of your price range , but look at a 945 . Not the same , but a lot alike . I have several , and they shoot like you wouldn't believe . I don't know if Colt even makes a 1911 that compares with them or an 845 .

I've got a couple of 945s, and prefer them over the 1911, trigger is a little light for my taste as a defensive carry and i often have an issue with the grip safety when shooting with a two-handed hold. For those reasons, my choice would either be my 645 or SiG P220s for carry use. i have P220s in both .45 and 10mm, both steel frames so the extra weight makes them very comfortable for extended range sessions.

 

[smithra_66]

"IF you get a quality 1911 running well..." Big IF.

I think this is more blown out of proportion than reality, really.

Remember, the 1911 is a platform. There are all sorts of magazines floating around, all sorts of other parts, etc.

It's not nearly as controlled a product as say, a Glock.

Every 1911 I've ever had has been reliable with good magazines. People that try to use 8 round cheapo magazines are probably the biggest culprit for "the 1911 isn't reliable" wives tales!

 

[jjfitch]

De-cock lever fumble!!??

You will not be sorry with the 1911. It is the best 45 Auto platform ever developed.

You don't have to fumble with decocking levers and you get a brilliant, consistent trigger pull for every shot.

There are plenty of 1911s in the sub 1000 area, Springfield comes to mind.

If you get a quality 1911 running well, you'll forget all about any other 45 you have.

I've shot 10's of thousands of rounds in competition with 45 and 9mm 1911's. I also carry and train with 4566 and 5906.

What is the "fumbling with de-cocking levers"?

As far as I know the de-cocking lever is an administrative tool used to render the firearm safe when holstering. Once the firearm is returned to D/A and holstered the de-cock lever is returned to OFF! No fumbling. If the firearm was not fired the firearm remains in D/A mode. No fumbling!

Both my Gen III's have the LEO feature that has spring loaded de-cock levers so they cannot be left ON! No fumbling!

Smiles,

 

[smithra_66]

I've shot 10's of thousands of rounds in competition with 45 and 9mm 1911's. I also carry and train with 4566 and 5906.

What is the "fumbling with de-cocking levers"?

As far as I know the de-cocking lever is an administrative tool used to render the firearm safe when holstering. Once the firearm is returned to D/A and holstered the de-cock lever is returned to OFF! No fumbling. If the firearm was not fired the firearm remains in D/A mode. No fumbling!

Both my Gen III's have the LEO feature that has spring loaded de-cock levers so they cannot be left ON! No fumbling!

Smiles,

Just saying there's no need to "decock" a 1911. Its decocking lever is the trigger, after it's been emptied. Otherwise just switch the thumb safety on.

 

[stansdds]

Probably the one big factor that gives 1911's a bad reputation for reliability is its magazine. Genuine GI magazines are almost always reliable with ball ammo. Quality civilian magazines are usually reliable with ball, hollow point, and semi-wadcutter ammo. Cheap magazines might be reliable with ball ammo, but are far more likely to cause rounds to nose dive into the feed ramp or pop up vertically and jam in the ejection port. Extra round magazines that use the standard dimension magazine body often have feed issues. That's based on my experience with 1911 for both defense and competition.


I have used both the 39-2 and the 439 for defensive carry. I never fumbled the decocker. Safety on when loading the pistol, safety off just before holstering the pistol. I see no point in carrying the TDA pistols with the safety engaged.

 

[Trooper224]

I would disagree with this. Durability? An all steel 1911 is about as durable as it gets. It also has probably the most parts availability and gunsmith know-how of any pistol in history. It's super simple to work on anything you need at home too. You can get a pretty nice one for his stated max of a grand.

Reliability? Well, you need to make sure you get the right mags and such, but once you do, the 1911 is EXTREMELY reliable.

The 4516 is a nice gun. The 1911 is a legend. There's a reason for that.

I've been shooting, carrying and working on 1911s for over thirty years, so I don't need a lecture from anyone on its legendary status. Take away the nostalgia and the hyperbole and everything I stated is factually true from a standpoint of engineering. You find this out if you actually spend some time in the muck really running the thing, instead of waving the flag from your couch.

 

[Jim PHL]

Long ago I decided to go to 1911's pretty much as the only platform for .45 ACP. At the time I had a 4506 and a 4513 as well as a full-size, steel and 3" aluminum framed 1911. (A carry and a range/house gun in each platform.) All four were reliable and accurate. The 1911's felt better in my hand and I shot them better. They're slimmer, too, which makes them carry better in my opinion. I loved those 3rd gens but back then I accepted the fact that I can't have or keep all the guns I want. I've stuck with that decision and not regretted it. Bought, sold and traded a few 1911's over the years and still have a few. My 3913's and 3953 aren't going anywhere soon, but after a lot of years it's still the 1911 for me for launching .45's.

 

[Jimmy4570]

Too many people are too bamboozled by marketing to realize the superiority of the 1911 design. Despite its age it truly is the best thing in a fighting handgun. All the complaints surrounding the platform are the need for fitting its parts, manufacturing process and its age. The thumb safety is a non issue and actually a life saver for anyone unfortunate enough to have their piece taken from them by an attacker. With all the modern trigger cockers and striker fired pieces without a thumb safety all the thug has to do is press the trigger. Studies have proven multiple times that the average goon can't operate a 1911 and are left standing there just yanking on the trigger while our hero can either stick them, shoot them with a second piece or disengage if they opt to do so. Somehow, someone along the way succeeded in convincing people that something so old cannot be good and useful. Well, it's just not so. If someone opts for a lesser piece, then fine, that's what freedom of choice is all about. But please let's not continue the odd criticism trying to make other pieces feel better about themselves. Lest we forget, when Tacoma PD actually conducted blind tests among officers of varying statures and builds using several available service pistols they wound up choosing the 1911 platform. Qual scores went up and people probably had their lives saved for it. Tacoma PD wound up opting for Kimbers in both 5" and 4" formats. Not sure what they're using now. Perhaps bean counters and haters have taken over since the early 2000's. Pity if they did...

 

[quikdraw67]

I have both but carry neither.

I'm not a LEO so I don't carry a service weapon, I carry a 442-1 no lock.

I like both. Nothing else to add really, previous post covered everything.

Being a southpaw, I do appreciate the ambidextrous safety of the 4516-1.

 

[yeti]

I like both.

For CCW use, going to give the edge to 1911 options like Colt Officer (3.5" bbl, 7+1, ~3oz less) or Commander (4.25" bbl, 8+1 similar weight) or Colt Lightweight Commander (4.25" bbl, 8+1, ~6oz less). If you train on the 1911 you get a slimmer carry profile, a much, much better trigger, current parts availability (ability to customize to fit your needs) and an extra rnd in CMDR style models.

 

[ladder13]

Thousands of rounds through my CGM, runs pretty darn well.

 

[smithra_66]

I've been shooting, carrying and working on 1911s for over thirty years, so I don't need a lecture from anyone on its legendary status. Take away the nostalgia and the hyperbole and everything I stated is factually true from a standpoint of engineering. You find this out if you actually spend some time in the muck really running the thing, instead of waving the flag from your couch.

1. I wasn't "lecturing" anyone. I was providing information for the OP.

2. You have absolutely no idea when, where or how I've used 1911s.

Simmer down. If you don't like 1911's that's fine.

 

[CJSmith]

I knew how this thread would go as soon as I read the title. The OP didn't specifically state he wanted to use a 1911 as a carry piece. It sounded to me like he was just interested in another 45ACP gun and the 1911 intrigued him. If that is the case, you can find many reliable 1911s with great triggers in your price range. If by on par, you mean something in 45ACP you would enjoy shooting that is of similar quality to your gun then I think you will find that in your price range. Then you can buy a Model 625. Then you can buy.....

If I misread your intent and you plan to carry a 1911, then as discussed there is much to consider.

 

[Doc1500]

Hey guys, I appreciate all the comments, experiences and information that you guys have shared. As mentioned in the OP my 4516-1 is my EDC.
For me, from the beginning of CCW I've only carried DA/SA.
As mentioned earlier I am intrigued buy the 1911 platform and thought I might like to have one and even possibly CCW it.
I'm not a bull's eye shooter, and when I train I train for self-defense only. I Draw from the holster, two shots on target
reholster every time.
I'm very comfortable with DA first shot and have trained that way.
At this point in my life switching over to the 1911 platform of cocked and locked I don't think I'm comfortable with and not ready to spend the time of training and changing from what I've always known.
For me , it would be kind of like a person who's only ever driven automatic transmission , now having to learn a manual transmission that they have never driven.
I personally don't like the idea of me having to switch off a safety to make the first shot, and yes I know if I train to carry that way and it can be learned but I'm not willing to go that far, and really have no desire to make that change.
For right now knowing that I know that I know and just do it, is comforting.
Thanks again guys for all the input.
DOC

 

[KurtC]

I have always felt that a pistol with 2 different trigger pulls was the most retarded thing ever conceived for a semi automatic.

When the Europeans came up with it, the pistol was primarily a symbol of rank. It wasn't a serious defensive tool. Most police were still carrying rifles.

In 1946, some fool in the US Army asked for proposals based on the P38 design. One answer was the Model 39, and it was a down hill spiral for 40 years.

A defense (or offensive) pistol should have 1 trigger pull for every shot. Either get a 1911 and train extensively in the use of the safety or get a DAO and learn how to shoot.

I carried the 4556 and 4553TSW models for years. Now I carry either a Beretta PX45C or 8045D mini Cougar.

I carried a 1911 in the Army and still qualify with a Colt Government Model regularly.