4th gen 4516

[18DAI]

BAM-BAM I recently tried a Sig P245, again. Three things about it I did not care for. The grip is thick. Too thick, for me. There are no thin aftermarket grips available for it either.

I also did not care for the recoil pulse while shooting it. Reminded me why I don't a P220. And the last thing is that it was unpleasantly LOUD. Like 357 out of a 2 inch tube loud. My shooting partner noticed it too.

A nice comapct 45, but not for me. I prefer a 457 to the 245.

I've given some more thought to the "4th gen 4516". Yes, an aluminum frame is probably a better idea. So, lets go with a 457. Shorty 45 slide cuts, Novak night sights, spurless hammer, 8-round mag with 4513TSW rounded base plate, THIN rubber grips AND either checker the front strap at 30 LPI or include finger rests around the frontstrap on the rubber grips. Oh, slant the dustcover like the 3914Nl and make the whole pistol as thin as the original 4516 no dash. Make it as thin as one of those 1911 pistols that everyone who doesn't carry a gun for a living raves about.

Finish? Melonite or stainless. Shouldn't be a problem as the 457 was already offered in both a black "sharpie marker" or stainless finish already. Yea, that would be a very nice carry gun.

BMCM You really shouldn't tease us! Best regards, 18DAI

 

[GaryS]

And don't forget to offer a DAO version.

BAM-BAM I recently tried a Sig P245, again. Three things about it I did not care for. The grip is thick. Too thick, for me. There are no thin aftermarket grips available for it either.

I also did not care for the recoil pulse while shooting it. Reminded me why I don't a P220. And the last thing is that it was unpleasantly LOUD. Like 357 out of a 2 inch tube loud. My shooting partner noticed it too.

A nice comapct 45, but not for me. I prefer a 457 to the 245.

I've given some more thought to the "4th gen 4516". Yes, an aluminum frame is probably a better idea. So, lets go with a 457. Shorty 45 slide cuts, Novak night sights, spurless hammer, 8-round mag with 4513TSW rounded base plate, THIN rubber grips AND either checker the front strap at 30 LPI or include finger rests around the frontstrap on the rubber grips. Oh, slant the dustcover like the 3914Nl and make the whole pistol as thin as the original 4516 no dash. Make it as thin as one of those 1911 pistols that everyone who doesn't carry a gun for a living raves about.

Finish? Melonite or stainless. Shouldn't be a problem as the 457 was already offered in both a black "sharpie marker" or stainless finish already. Yea, that would be a very nice carry gun.

BMCM You really shouldn't tease us! Best regards, 18DAI

 

[armorer951]

I like the stainless steel myself. How about a reversable or ambi magazine release? Is that do-able?

 

[Hill_Country]

And don't forget to offer a DAO version.

No problem. The 4th Gen Smiths are easily re-configurable in the field - DA/SA, DAO, decocker. All it takes is some minor disassembly and installing a spring or something.

How about second gen style grips with changeable backstraps for different size hands. Think wood grip panels and no plastic anywhere - that's the perfect handgun.

 

[Fastbolt]

I like the stainless steel myself. How about a reversable or ambi magazine release? Is that do-able?

Yeah, it would've been nice if they'd gotten around to finding a way to design a reversible mag catch for the single stack .45's, like they did with the double stack TSW's. Instead, they started shipping an extra LH mag catch with the LE 4566TSW's, in case someone wanted to change a gun over.

 

[BAM-BAM]

BAM-BAM I recently tried a Sig P245, again. Three things about it I did not care for. The grip is thick. Too thick, for me. There are no thin aftermarket grips available for it either.

I also did not care for the recoil pulse while shooting it. Reminded me why I don't a P220. And the last thing is that it was unpleasantly LOUD. Like 357 out of a 2 inch tube loud. My shooting partner noticed it too.

A nice compact 45, but not for me. I prefer a 457 to the 245.



18DAI

Of the 3 compact .45s I tried in the 90s.... 4516,4513TSW and the Sig 245... the TSW with a set of modified Hogue Rubber grips (which I think I still have) was my favorite......but lack of magazines was an issue for me.

I like the look of Hogue wood grips on the 245 but tooooo thick; in the end I stippled a set of factory grips to get a good grip on the still "slightly too thick" grips.... the G-10 grips might be an option......

 

[GaryS]

The more I think about it, the more I like the 2nd Gen style grips. Of which there seem to be more options than with the 3rd Gen grips.

I'm sure there was a reason that S&W changed the design, but I have no idea what it was.

No problem. The 4th Gen Smiths are easily re-configurable in the field - DA/SA, DAO, decocker. All it takes is some minor disassembly and installing a spring or something.

How about second gen style grips with changeable backstraps for different size hands. Think wood grip panels and no plastic anywhere - that's the perfect handgun.

 

[Hill_Country]

The more I think about it, the more I like the 2nd Gen style grips. Of which there seem to be more options than with the 3rd Gen grips.

I'm sure there was a reason that S&W changed the design, but I have no idea what it was.

If I had to guess, I'd say cost. The 2nd gen backstraps today cost about forty bucks - twice what the delrin grips go for. Plus the cost of the bushings, screws and grip panels. I'd think the delrin grips were considerably less expensive to produce.

Here's a wild and crazy thought - someone should scan and 3D print the backstraps adjusted for the shorter grips on the compact 3d gens. Once you had something that fit it would be easy to produce a range of sizes for different hands.

 

[GaryS]

You are probably right, but I just didn't want to admit it.

I think that between 3D printing and small home useable CNC machines, an enterprising person could make some nice replacement and repair parts for the 3rd Gen guns.

If I had to guess, I'd say cost. The 2nd gen backstraps today cost about forty bucks - twice what the delrin grips go for. Plus the cost of the bushings, screws and grip panels. I'd think the delrin grips were considerably less expensive to produce.

Here's a wild and crazy thought - someone should scan and 3D print the backstraps adjusted for the shorter grips on the compact 3d gens. Once you had something that fit it would be easy to produce a range of sizes for different hands.

 

[Hill_Country]

I think that between 3D printing and small home useable CNC machines, an enterprising person could make some nice replacement and repair parts for the 3rd Gen guns.

You'd think that with all the talent available around here it would be a piece of cake to make a 3d Gen backstrap.

Think of the possabilities - hand size adjustable - nice *thin* personalized wood grips - grip mounted lasers

AND (best of all) - <drum roll>

NO PLASTIC

 

[GaryS]

I think it's a matter of start up money and market.

I wonder if 3D butt plates and butt plate retainers are possible? I don't see why not, but I know so little about the topic.

What are some of the other common parts that S&W doesn't seem to supply any more? Side plates come to mind, but I'm sure there are a lot of others. Not that you could 3D print a side plate, but there must be a way to make them that doesn't cost a fortune in start up parts.

I seem to remember that Numrich makes some reproduction parts, but probably not for anything as current as a 3rd Gen.

You'd think that with all the talent available around here it would be a piece of cake to make a 3d Gen backstrap.

Think of the possabilities - hand size adjustable - nice *thin* personalized wood grips - grip mounted lasers

AND (best of all) - <drum roll>

NO PLASTIC

 

[Hill_Country]

Actually, I haven't found any normal repair parts that were unavailable if I was willing to wait. There was a rumor at one time that S&W was reducing their stock levels to conserve cash, but I think the delays are more likely due to hoarders like me stocking up on enough repair parts to keep these things running for another century or two.

I know from my foray in to selling laser grips that there is a market in aftermarket accessories for 3d gens. Unfortunately, the price of the modified laser grips often approached the value of the weapon, but I would jump on something that would allow me to replace delrin with some attractive wood grips/laser/size adjustment.

 

[18DAI]

The thing about parts is that while I've picked up some over the last few years, just in case, I have not needed any. My guns run and have not broken anything. But then again they were mostly made in the 90s.

Do the new ones come with return shipping tags? Regards 18DAI

 

[Hill_Country]

The thing about parts is that while I've picked up some over the last few years, just in case, I have not needed any. My guns run and have not broken anything. But then again they were mostly made in the 90s.

Good point about not needing parts. Other than recoil and mag springs, I don't think mine have, either. But I'm working on a very scientific experiment to determine how many little tiny springs I have to launch in to the nether regions of my shop before I find one. I have a lifetime supply if I could find them.

 

[Oldline]

Being a newcomer I confess I am ignorant in the ways of the board, so I don't know if it is verbotten to dredge up zombie threads, but there are some GREAT ideas in this thread, not to mention the whole idea is a great idea in my half-baked estimation anyway.

Here's just one small example from Hill_Country: "Here's a wild and crazy thought - someone should scan and 3D print the backstraps adjusted for the shorter grips on the compact 3d gens. Once you had something that fit it would be easy to produce a range of sizes for different hands."

With CCW all the rage these days I can't believe S&W couldn't produce something like a 4th Gen 4513 TSW to give Sig a run for their money at a competitive price point.

 

[SOTVEN]

You'd think that with all the talent available around here it would be a piece of cake to make a 3d Gen backstrap.

Think of the possabilities - hand size adjustable - nice *thin* personalized wood grips - grip mounted lasers

AND (best of all) - <drum roll>

NO PLASTIC

you have to keep in mind, that 3rd gms were among the first if not the first, with 2 differnt backstraps with their curved or straight grips!!! i tried what you are proposing with a 645 backstrap on my 45xx, but not much of a match. i would like this mod too. hence be able to fit staghorn on it. also, since someone is on it, how about stainless floorplates and aluminum followers for the magazines too?
and threated barrels pliz!

 

[SOTVEN]

I think they used "0" for the last digit if the frame is Scandium.
So, it would likely be a 4510TSWEIEIO.

Or something. It's all a dream, so we can design anything we want since they aren't going to build it.

square triggerguard please. thank you.

 

[GaryS]

How about interchangeable trigger guards?

Seriously though, the grips are the one weak point in the design. At least i think so. The grip tape I posted about a couple of years ago lasted about 18 months before the glue dried out. Since then, I've taken to using the Pachmyar grip sleeves. They have finger grooves and come very close to the Hogue grips for the 6906 in feel and point for me.

The design of the grips makes producing aftermarket grips a bit of a challenge. Hogue did a nice job with the adapter and I find the grips good for shooting, but less so for concealed carry.

It would have been better if S&W had kept the older grip attachment design and produced a variety of grip profiles that could be interchanged.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda, but we're left with the reality.

square triggerguard please. thank you.

 

[SOTVEN]

How about interchangeable trigger guards?

Seriously though, the grips are the one weak point in the design. At least i think so. The grip tape I posted about a couple of years ago lasted about 18 months before the glue dried out. Since then, I've taken to using the Pachmyar grip sleeves. They have finger grooves and come very close to the Hogue grips for the 6906 in feel and point for me.

The design of the grips makes producing aftermarket grips a bit of a challenge. Hogue did a nice job with the adapter and I find the grips good for shooting, but less so for concealed carry.

It would have been better if S&W had kept the older grip attachment design and produced a variety of grip profiles that could be interchanged.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda, but we're left with the reality.

hahaha!!! yes, interchangable triggerguards! i did not think of that! besides, why go cheap with a dream?? lol! as for the grip, it is not that hard to overcome i think. hogue showed the way partially. the main spring could be held in place with a seperate piece, while the grips could be attached with screws on each side. the frame reinforcements are there. the bottom one is drilled already. only a hole above the drawbar, and taping. it has been done by the performance center guys in the past!! i dare not bring in a picture from a European auction site, showing the factory two piece wooden grips

 

[Turn & Bank]

18DAI I like the way you think....but GaryS hit pretty close to my dream gun....a scandium frame shorty 45....slide cuts,no billboards,single side decock/safety lever, low profile tritium sites,yessery bob that would do it......................and now I am going out to get that winning super lotto ticket too

Hi folks
Hey as long as we're buying lottery tickets and smoking heaven knows what, I'll throw out "in 10MM please".
Take Care,
T & B