5 inch barrel
- Thread starter tacticalshooter
- Start date
bondjamesbond
Member
I'll wear a tie when they bury me
Nice looking old Smif. What happened to the screw heads? They are supposed to be round.
As for barrel lengths, there are enough guns in the SWCA database to make some valid observations.
38 M&Ps from 1910 to 1930 have the following percentages listed in the database:
3% - 2"
35% - 4"
20% - 5"
41% - 6"
1% - 6.5"
"S" prefix K frames from 1946 to 1948 have the following percantages:
2" - 18%
4" - 25%
5" - 33%
6" - 24%
Nothing seems to be scarce in the S prefix guns, while the 2" (3%) and 6.5" (1%) guns in the early K frames are likely scarce and the 6.5 might even be bordering on rare. It is my understanding that only a few early 38 M&Ps, 3rd Change revolvers were made with that long barrel, probably leftovers from pre-1910 2nd Change inventory.
38 M&Ps from 1910 to 1930 have the following percentages listed in the database:
3% - 2"
35% - 4"
20% - 5"
41% - 6"
1% - 6.5"
"S" prefix K frames from 1946 to 1948 have the following percantages:
2" - 18%
4" - 25%
5" - 33%
6" - 24%
Nothing seems to be scarce in the S prefix guns, while the 2" (3%) and 6.5" (1%) guns in the early K frames are likely scarce and the 6.5 might even be bordering on rare. It is my understanding that only a few early 38 M&Ps, 3rd Change revolvers were made with that long barrel, probably leftovers from pre-1910 2nd Change inventory.
I agree. Before 1940, I would call the 5" M&P a very common barrel length, perhaps more common than 4". Also remember that it was a popular cop gun length, like the Louisville PD guns we see turn up here.
On another note-
I find it laughable that every 5" Pre 27, 27, and 27-2 on GB has the "RARE" 5" barrel.
I worked in a gun shop in the 70s and actively traded guns on the side then, and ever since. MOST of those models traded at the time were 5". The 3-1/2s were TURKEYS- loud, smoky, twisting, firebreathing little ______ that nobody wanted. You got beat to death when you traded one.The 6s, 6-1/2s, and 8-3/8s were too long to pack handily, so they were less common. Again, MOST of the 27 family floating around back then were 5s.
Lee, I can almost see the sarcasm dripping
, but I'm still learning so I'll bite. From my limited observation, the Model 27 (or pre) in the 3.5" barrel seems to be the most desirable and highly valued. Every time I see one offered the price seems to go up, and they don't last long.
Thanks, Gary.
I'd be interested in knowing how big that sample size is. My database accounts for more than 6,000 examples, and I get a different set of data.
Generally speaking, I would agree. The only caveat is if you break down the 2" guns into RB and SB. The RB examples seem to be far less common.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Sometimes perceptions guide reality
Considering that the SCWA database was accumulated based on input from active members/collectors, there is a good chance the numbers are skewed by what was/is being considered more desirable/collectible.
handejector
Staff member
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2005
- Messages
- 26,134
- Reaction score
- 47,054
Now, yes.Lee, I can almost see the sarcasm dripping
Then, no.
In the 70s, I would decline a trade on a 3-1/2" gun.
A friend brought one into the shop in 75 and wanted to trade it for one of my guns. I declined. He came back with it 3 or 4 days later. I still had the gun he wanted. He'd been trying to sell his 3-1/2. He was a cop and knew how to move guns. He said "Get me out of it." I said "I'm gonna hurt you." He said "Hurt me" and we traded. That was in Atlanta, which is not a small gun market.
They were actually that hard to move back then. Anybody wanting to pack a 357 wanted a 2-1/2" 19 or 66. The publicity given to 3-1/2 Reg Mags packed by G-Men and Lawmen before WW II, to a large extent done on this very board, have added the mystique to the 3-1/2" guns. BUT, don't forget, they didn't have a choice of a smaller, lighter magnum.
How many would have chosen a 3-1/2" N frame to wear with a suit if a 2-1/2" K frame had been available?The Mod 19, a smaller, lighter 357 came about largely through the recommendations of Bill Jordan, just about the LARGEST man that ever packed a gun all day, every day.
Last edited:
Texas Star
US Veteran
I handled a five-inch M-27 at the Dallas FBI field office on a HS field trip. The tour guide agent said the action hadn't been slicked to his knowledge, but it was a delight , a real step up from my only revolver, a Webley MK VI.
He said few agents wore N-frame .357's unless working an especially dangerous case. But he liked the heavy bbl. M-10, M-10-6.
An agent speaking to my class on a career day left his M-49 in his car, but told me it was his average day gun.
He said few agents wore N-frame .357's unless working an especially dangerous case. But he liked the heavy bbl. M-10, M-10-6.
An agent speaking to my class on a career day left his M-49 in his car, but told me it was his average day gun.
The whole exercise is an estimation at best. Whether there were hundreds or a few thousand in the sample size, both offer a small percentage of those models manufactured. It was merely to help the OP with his 5" question and to see if there were any scarce "S" numbered gun barrel lengths.
What is really sad is that people feel they have to keep their own private databases in the first place.
What is really sad is that people feel they have to keep their own private databases in the first place.
bondjamesbond
Member
Don't know about the screw heads, never noticed they were flat, it has been refinished, but only paid a couple hundred for it.
Yeah. I get that. Keep in mind, mine is part of a huge, multi-year research project that is intended to become the basis for a Journal article. Roy agreed to help me with it. Once the research is complete and the article submitted, it is my intent to make the database available to all. Perhaps Lee will provide some space for it here on the Forum, or at least in the members only section.
Making it public now, while the research is ongoing, would simply complicate my work and I don't have enough "spare time" to devote to it is as it is.
Agreed. I was just responding to, 5" barrel M&Ps have always been less common than 4 or 6
This could be correct. As you say, we lack sufficient data to know for sure. But it is easy to get that impression. Available evidence shows a large number of 5" examples hanging around from the 1910 to 1930 period.
Less common are 5" target models, like this one from 1904.
Jack, I never thought I'd see another 1902 Target 5" in close to the condition of the one I have. Mine is worse, if you can fathom it.
Stu
Attachments
Stu
That is cool. I like the fact it has checkered walnut round butt stocks. The stocks on mine, obviously, are newer than the gun by several years. Roy says mine shipped with hard rubber.
That is cool. I like the fact it has checkered walnut round butt stocks. The stocks on mine, obviously, are newer than the gun by several years. Roy says mine shipped with hard rubber.
Walter Rego
Member
I have a 1946 .38 M&P in 5", a 1964 Model 14-2 with a 5" Special Order barrel and a 1972 Model 27-2 with a 5" barrel. They all have handling characteristics that to me are better than the same models with 6" barrels.
You can be sure that when they time comes for me to sell them, I will definitely be asking a premium for that barrel length on the Model 14-2 and Model 27-2. While I dislike the overuse of the word "scarce" the Model 27-2 has a Patridge front sight and judging from all the examples that I have seen on this site of other 5" Model 27's, it certainly isn't as common as the Baughman ramp front sight.
You can be sure that when they time comes for me to sell them, I will definitely be asking a premium for that barrel length on the Model 14-2 and Model 27-2. While I dislike the overuse of the word "scarce" the Model 27-2 has a Patridge front sight and judging from all the examples that I have seen on this site of other 5" Model 27's, it certainly isn't as common as the Baughman ramp front sight.
Hmmmmm ... I zoomed in and now I see it too.
OP
tacticalshooter
Member
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2020
- Messages
- 7
- Reaction score
- 10
Hmm, good catch. It actually is, when i run my fingers over it i can feel it slightly.
Modified
Member
I personally don't have much experience with bulged barrels, but I did want to point it out in case its a safety risk. I expect much more knowledgeable people then myself can fill you in on that.
You might break out a flashlight and see if you can spot how big the bulge is inside the barrel in the meantime.
Gordyf808
Member
VaTom
Member
Agree with the car seat issue. In 1976 when I became a LEO we carried 5" nickel Model 10. Our patrol cars still had bench seats. When we got cars with bucket seats around 1978 not as much a problem as holster could ride down side of seat. In 1979 the department transition to all 4". Much more comfortable. I didn't notice any difference in his they shot as far as accuracy.
