5 Shot Snubby of CCW?
- Thread starter Dump1567
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Double-O-Dave
US Veteran
With respect, I think your list is incomplete. How about:
Are you disabled?
Are you aged?
Are you female?
Are you a member of a ethnic minority?
Are you someone that some idiot(s) doesn't like and decides to target for an attack?
Are you _________ (fill in the blank)
Luckily, I've never been involved in an armed encounter, but I've been able to walk away or otherwise avoid attacks on several occasions. At times, people didn't like my appearance - I'm a short, fat, Asian dude. I'm also disabled, so yeah, I've been viewed as a target, but luckily haven't been hit yet. My point is that sometimes, despite your best efforts or intentions, someone decides they have a reason to attack you.
I carry concealed whenever possible. I recall an old saying I never understood when I was young: "Never get into a fight with an old man. He can't run, and he can't fight, so he'll just kill you." Now that I'm an older guy (62), that saying describes me quite well.
Regards,
Dave
SquarePizza
Member
I predominately spend my time between this message board and glocktalk. Though occasionally I wander over to the sig and HK forums... and one thing that I find very interesting, is that more glock guys shoot revolvers than the sig and HK guys.
That mirrors my own personal preferences too. After 20 years of being a revolver guy, the only bottom feeders I will carry/play with are glocks.
As to the J-frame being enough, honestly it is my last line of carry when I cannot carry anything else. I would prefer my 657 UDR, glock 26, Glock 17L or a 3" 686+. Generally in that order.
In my day-to-day home life I don't give a dang if I print, I live in the country and nobody cares out here. But in my work life with a polyester uniform, printing has to be avoided so I am limited to pocket carrying a J-frame. Do I feel under gunned? Not really. Am I happy about a 5 shot J? Not really. I would prefer a larger gun carried AIWB for no other reason that I like the other guns more.
I only carry when I take my trike on select trails where there is a risk of wildlife interaction. I currently can only carry my Governor and it is loaded with 000 buck and the first two rounds are rubber. The trike carries the burden of the weight which is mounted on the boom in front of me. After trying the shoulder rig for the Governor (too uncomfortable in reclined position) and then mounting it on the boom I have found that my 5 shot 460V will not fit in the allocated space on the trike. This means I have to buy a replacement, it pains me to have to get the 3 inch 460XVR, darn the bad luck.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Friend, questions like this are why the internet exists. There will be those that don't like it and those that do. It's the endless caliber/capacity/type/oil debate; there is no correct answer.
Statistics say that only two or three shots are enough. Alas, there is always a chance you'll need another round. No one ever left a gun fight thinking, "Man I wish I had brought less ammo." But those who say 5 is enough are not wrong either.
I choose to look at it a different way; which gun do you shoot best? If it's a 1911, then carry that. If it's a NAA micro gun, carry that. If it's a .38Spl snubby, carry that. The gun you shoot best, or feel best with, is the gun that you'll be more able to defend yourself with when you're panicked, stressed and just trying to live to tomorrow.
These days in some areas the bad guys aren't man enough to confront you one on one. They come in pairs. Or more.
Therefore i always carry a reload. Doesn't cost me anything but a few more ounces in the pocket. And I would rather be over prepared than not.
I carry a Kimber K6 with a speed strip.
Therefore i always carry a reload. Doesn't cost me anything but a few more ounces in the pocket. And I would rather be over prepared than not.
I carry a Kimber K6 with a speed strip.
I think the snub revolver makes a whole lot of sense in those circumstances in particular.
Age and the Snubnose
Why Carry a Revolver?
Marshal Tom
Member
I am very divided about this issue. While working in LE for many years I carried a 1911 with a couple of extra mags and never felt under gunned. Now that I am retired but still carrying a gun for my present security position I often carry a Glock 19 with an extra mag. When off duty or at home I often carry my Shield 9mm or an M&P 340. I have multiple revolvers and semi autos to choose from so I change as needed. I do think that the statements made regarding the typical number of rounds expended in a civilian encounter are generally true, no one has ever wished for less rounds in a gun fight. There are times when I feel that a 5 shot snub is adequate but usually I want for more ammo on hand, just in case.
HardToHandle
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Change
War Story - 20 years ago or so, I joined a department that had recently transitioned from S&W Model 66 to the then newer 4043. The predominant off-duty gun was the J Frame and a few of the most tactically minded guys had purchased 4053s.
There were some mostly younger, more tactically aligned guys who lobbied for allowing personally owned Glocks and SIGs. Two years later, 75% of the officers were carrying something other than Smith & Wesson. Most of the off-duty guns were Glock 23s, SIG P229s and a few G27s. The old guys with mortgages and kids in college were the only guys who didn't switch. The dozens of guys and gals that switched wanted more rounds, less weight and better ergonomics - on duty and off.
I had a J Frame then with speed strips. I carried a J Frame last week on vacation out of state (swimming pool) and frequently as a winter pocket gun. My frame of reference is five-round J Frames are dated, but nothing carries quite the same.
To the original posters question, I switched to a Glock 26 years ago, which has more than twice as many of a more effective cartridge at an equivalent size to a J Frame. Now I have 12round Magpul magazine that allows 13 to be carried and a tactical light on the Glock. No way a G26 is as comfortable to carry as a J Frame but the additional capacity and speed of reloading were major determinants for me. Bonus is that the G26 shot better for me out of the box and requires less practice to remain proficient.
On capacity, the Trolley Square incident in SLC is what I think of when someone says X-amount of rounds are enough off-duty or in a civllian scenario. Same for the Skokie IL shootout where more than 15 .45ACP rounds did not get the job done against a determined felon.
I am here because I am just old enough to appreciate classic Smiths. My guess is most of the folks speaking up for the five-shot J Frame are over 40 and predisposed to be good shooters.
War Story - 20 years ago or so, I joined a department that had recently transitioned from S&W Model 66 to the then newer 4043. The predominant off-duty gun was the J Frame and a few of the most tactically minded guys had purchased 4053s.
There were some mostly younger, more tactically aligned guys who lobbied for allowing personally owned Glocks and SIGs. Two years later, 75% of the officers were carrying something other than Smith & Wesson. Most of the off-duty guns were Glock 23s, SIG P229s and a few G27s. The old guys with mortgages and kids in college were the only guys who didn't switch. The dozens of guys and gals that switched wanted more rounds, less weight and better ergonomics - on duty and off.
I had a J Frame then with speed strips. I carried a J Frame last week on vacation out of state (swimming pool) and frequently as a winter pocket gun. My frame of reference is five-round J Frames are dated, but nothing carries quite the same.
To the original posters question, I switched to a Glock 26 years ago, which has more than twice as many of a more effective cartridge at an equivalent size to a J Frame. Now I have 12round Magpul magazine that allows 13 to be carried and a tactical light on the Glock. No way a G26 is as comfortable to carry as a J Frame but the additional capacity and speed of reloading were major determinants for me. Bonus is that the G26 shot better for me out of the box and requires less practice to remain proficient.
On capacity, the Trolley Square incident in SLC is what I think of when someone says X-amount of rounds are enough off-duty or in a civllian scenario. Same for the Skokie IL shootout where more than 15 .45ACP rounds did not get the job done against a determined felon.
I am here because I am just old enough to appreciate classic Smiths. My guess is most of the folks speaking up for the five-shot J Frame are over 40 and predisposed to be good shooters.
All in the tactics
J frames make ideal personal defense weapons but you need to think twice should you find yourself in the middle of a small riot or robbery in progress.
For a tragic case of how not to use a J frame, Google the Sgt. James O'Sullivan shooting at a lower Manhattan (NY) Radio shack.
J frames make ideal personal defense weapons but you need to think twice should you find yourself in the middle of a small riot or robbery in progress.
For a tragic case of how not to use a J frame, Google the Sgt. James O'Sullivan shooting at a lower Manhattan (NY) Radio shack.
Telecaster
Member
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Why not have two spare tires in your trunk instead of one?
Why not install a sprinkler system in your house in case of fire?
Why not wear body armor 24/7?
Why not put bullet resistant glass in your home's windows?
These are all things you can do, but few do them. Wonder why?
Why not install a sprinkler system in your house in case of fire?
Why not wear body armor 24/7?
Why not put bullet resistant glass in your home's windows?
These are all things you can do, but few do them. Wonder why?
snowman.45
Member
As an old retired cop, like so many others here, I have found my armaments needs/desires have evolved over time. I've always been a "gun guy" and was a firearms instructor and SWAT for most of my 37 years. I started with revolvers and found the j-frames met most of my off-duty and BUG needs most of the time. If circumstances or locale dictated that I carry more rounds or higher capacity, I always had a 1911 in the 70's and 80's that I could carry in place of the j-frame.
However, as many have said in this thread, the j-frame is just an outstanding option for a large part of the time. I've been retired for 4 years now, and find I have moved away from the Glocks and similar guns over time. The j-frame, Glock 43, Shield or a CCO version of 1911 most often gets the nod. I feel quite comfortable with the j-frame and a couple of speed strips or speed loaders most of the time, whether in a pocket or at 3:00 OWB.
Just to clarify that I have not totally abandoned my training and tactical mindset, I always have a Glock 19 with extra mags in a armored lock box concealed in my truck, so there is more armament available if it gets weird. It's always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
However, as many have said in this thread, the j-frame is just an outstanding option for a large part of the time. I've been retired for 4 years now, and find I have moved away from the Glocks and similar guns over time. The j-frame, Glock 43, Shield or a CCO version of 1911 most often gets the nod. I feel quite comfortable with the j-frame and a couple of speed strips or speed loaders most of the time, whether in a pocket or at 3:00 OWB.
Just to clarify that I have not totally abandoned my training and tactical mindset, I always have a Glock 19 with extra mags in a armored lock box concealed in my truck, so there is more armament available if it gets weird. It's always better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
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RGVshooter
Member
I've seen a lot of surveillance videos posted on youtube showing armed civilians legally defending themselves against armed an attacker/s. 99% of them either get dropped or run away after the first or second shot. There is an argument whether capacity is an issue or not. Is a 17 round magazine better than a 5 shot revolver? Probably, however as I pointed out most civilian armed encounters are resolved within 1-3 shots fired. There have been times when LEO or civilians have fired more than 3 rounds. Fired up to 15-20 rounds, but that is a question of shot placement & training rather than a major gun battle.
I feel perfectly fine with my 642 and a speed strip of Remington G&W box of 38 special +P in my pocket.
I feel perfectly fine with my 642 and a speed strip of Remington G&W box of 38 special +P in my pocket.
Mainsail
Member
The phrase "suit you fine" indicates the minimum necessary or desired. When I'm running (up to 4+ miles now!) I carry a snub, any other time I carry something more than the minimum.
Ingramite
Member
Let me set finances aside for a moment to consider if I would wear a Rolex or a Timex wrist watch?
If I still had an "outside job" working with my hands I would probably be practical and pick the budget timepiece.
But I'm at a place in my life where I enjoy the touch of nice things. I would probably chose a Rolex today. I would enjoy looking at it. Cleaning it and fondling it. They are beautiful, classic, and something to pass to one of my sons.
I don't wear a watch though. I have a smart phone that I can't escape. My job requires that I'm always in contact. So I carry that cellphone in a fine leather case instead of in a Wal*Mart toe sack stuck up under my belt.
If I want to know what time it is....I whip out that fancy cellphone of mine.
I carry my weapon everyday. I don't get into a gunfight everyday.
When my feet hit the floor I think about the Lucchese elephant boots that I'm going to slip my feet down into. I think about the Ranger belt with the silver buckle set and the starched jeans with creases. The starched roper long sleeve shirt. The Resistol or Stetson hat of the day.
Right then I decide if I'm going to want to carry a beautiful, classic S&W revolver or a sharp stick. I hold it up and admire the classic lines. The heft is comforting. It's cool steel from spending the night on the bedside table will soon be my own body temperature from the most intimate and personal contact with me. All day long I will be enjoying the comfort and luxury of that fine firearm next to me.
Why?
Because I can.
I have some semi-autos that I can shoot much further much more accurately. My finger gets tired pulling the trigger before I run out of rounds. I just don't get the same esthetic feel from them that I get from my steel S&W revolvers. They lack the beauty and feel of quality that my revolvers give me.
So what I'm telling you is that I could run a foot race better in sport trainers or tennis shoes but I feel better in a nice pair of boots. It's about what I do. The accessories that I choose for my mission.
Either you dig this trip or it's blowing past ya.
I'm not going to worry about shooting 5 guys tomorrow or 19 guys. I'm gonna worry about "The Total Package" of being outfitted with gear that will fit my needs, with style and class.
So is 5 rounds enough for what I have to do tomorrow?
I'm really thinking about this silver rodeo buckle that I saw last week end. It had this chrome plated, pearl handled one shot derringer mounted to it on a spring loaded hinge. You mash a hidden button on the top of the buckle and it springs out into action, firing a shot into the gut of the person standing in front of you.
Yeah, the longer I'm studying on this....I could probably get by tomorrow with just one bullet.
If I still had an "outside job" working with my hands I would probably be practical and pick the budget timepiece.
But I'm at a place in my life where I enjoy the touch of nice things. I would probably chose a Rolex today. I would enjoy looking at it. Cleaning it and fondling it. They are beautiful, classic, and something to pass to one of my sons.
I don't wear a watch though. I have a smart phone that I can't escape. My job requires that I'm always in contact. So I carry that cellphone in a fine leather case instead of in a Wal*Mart toe sack stuck up under my belt.
If I want to know what time it is....I whip out that fancy cellphone of mine.
I carry my weapon everyday. I don't get into a gunfight everyday.
When my feet hit the floor I think about the Lucchese elephant boots that I'm going to slip my feet down into. I think about the Ranger belt with the silver buckle set and the starched jeans with creases. The starched roper long sleeve shirt. The Resistol or Stetson hat of the day.
Right then I decide if I'm going to want to carry a beautiful, classic S&W revolver or a sharp stick. I hold it up and admire the classic lines. The heft is comforting. It's cool steel from spending the night on the bedside table will soon be my own body temperature from the most intimate and personal contact with me. All day long I will be enjoying the comfort and luxury of that fine firearm next to me.
Why?
Because I can.
I have some semi-autos that I can shoot much further much more accurately. My finger gets tired pulling the trigger before I run out of rounds. I just don't get the same esthetic feel from them that I get from my steel S&W revolvers. They lack the beauty and feel of quality that my revolvers give me.
So what I'm telling you is that I could run a foot race better in sport trainers or tennis shoes but I feel better in a nice pair of boots. It's about what I do. The accessories that I choose for my mission.
Either you dig this trip or it's blowing past ya.
I'm not going to worry about shooting 5 guys tomorrow or 19 guys. I'm gonna worry about "The Total Package" of being outfitted with gear that will fit my needs, with style and class.
So is 5 rounds enough for what I have to do tomorrow?
I'm really thinking about this silver rodeo buckle that I saw last week end. It had this chrome plated, pearl handled one shot derringer mounted to it on a spring loaded hinge. You mash a hidden button on the top of the buckle and it springs out into action, firing a shot into the gut of the person standing in front of you.
Yeah, the longer I'm studying on this....I could probably get by tomorrow with just one bullet.
