5906 failure to extract

tuj

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Hi all:

bought a 5906 used a few months ago and this week while at the range it had two failures to extract while my wife was shooting it. I thought maybe she was just limp-wristing but I took the gun home and ran about 100 snap caps through it and sure enough, eventually I ran into the same issue.

It seems as though the extractor is slipping off the rim well before the case can be extracted from the chamber. The worst thing about this type of malfunction is that the next round rides up right behind the stuck empty and binds up the action of the gun. A mag will not drop free; it has to be pried out before the slide will close and give a second chance at extraction.

Obviously not a good situation to have if a defense situation arises.

What do you guys think? Do I need a new extractor spring? I pushed on the extractor and from the rear fulcrum I couldn't even move it. When I pushed on the extractor tip from the breech face, it felt very stiff, but did move. There doesn't appear to be excess carbon build-up around the mechanism.

Thoughts?

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5906

Take the extractor out, clean extractor and replace spring. Brownells has the spring.
 
Send it in to S&W for service.The bill for shipping and repair will run about $200 bones total.

Fasbolt knows more about this than I do,but my experience comes from having bought a 5906 which had the same issue yours has.Replacing the magazine and recoil spring reduced the frequency of the three-point failures from once a mag to once every 70 odd rounds.Repair likely means changing the extractor along with the spring,and properly gauging the extractor requires tools only a rare gunsmith and S&W factory repair has.It sucks,but you'll have to just bite the bullet and send it to the factory.Don't expect a 'warranty repair' if you aren't the original owner.
 
If this were my FTE...I would do as Markfi advised prior to sending the gun in to S&W.
Does the extractor move smoothly when you push on it?
What does the business end of the extractor look like? Any damage?
My guess would be that your extractor spring is shot.
Also how clean is the chamber? Do rounds slide in and out well?
 
A 5906 is a 3rd generation gun and should have a lifetime warranty. I would send it to S&W and let them deal with it instead of trying to solve it myself.

Randy
 
I had the same issue with my 4506 no dash. It got especially bad as the gun got dirtier from firing. A new extractor spring fixed it up, but I did get the malfunction one more time out of 100 rounds fired at the range. I did blame that one on limp-wristing though, my friend was trying to rapid fire his first time shooting a .45... Now, I did notice that the chamber in this 4506 isn't as smooth as those on my 4506-1's. Might be that some casings are expanding slightly more as the load might be slightly heavier, thus causing it to bind up in the chamber. That shouldn't happen with a snap cap though, just some food for thought anyways. Hope you get it worked out!
 
You really cant tell anything with dummy rounds, the rims arent right get worn etc. Action proving rounds slightly better, but still running the slide by hand isnt quite the same as firing it.
How does it work when you shoot it, does it behave the same?
Look at the extractor is it chipped, sometimes they are , mostly because someone has been loading the gun by dropping a round in the chamber and then dropping the slide , forcing the extractor over the rim.
If its chipped, I would think the warranty would cover it. Fitting and dressing an extractor on a S&W isnt for the untrained, and its alot easier with the proper extractor and gauges.
If it isnt chipped, try cleaning,especially the extractor and breech face, and lubing the gun and you test fire it.At least 60% of these problems I see are cleared up by that. Hopefully you wont need an extractor. Good luck.
 
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I think the other posters have covered most of the things that might be said ...

The typical probable causes of failures-to-extract in S&W 3rd gen's are a damaged extractor (chipped/broken), a damaged or weakened extractor spring; and a damaged or worn recoil spring.

Trying a new factory recoil spring is the easiest and quickest thing to try.

The extractor typically has to be fitted (filed and checked with a Go/No-Go gauge).

The extractor spring can vary, depending on the particular slide. There are a few different springs available for an armorer/tech/gunsmith to use in order to get any particular gun's extractor tension to fall within the recommended range. That can vary depending on a couple of things, one of which is whether the breech face is the older machined style (rounded shoulders for case base) or the straight (vertical) cut. Also, the way the spring well was machined can have an effect on this, and older 59XX guns might require a different spring depending on whether the hole was drilled by equipment operated by hand, or by computer. Guess which offered more potential for variance?

The tension is checked by use of a light weight force dial gauge, using a special attachment to hold the extractor hook and looking for the force required to cause deflection of the extractor tail (with the slide in a vise).

Of course, the final "check" occurs out on the firing line, after the bench checks are completed. Too much tension and you can get feeding problems. Too little and you get failures-to-extract (when the extractor spring is overcome by the recoil forces during what's sometimes called "moment of mass", and the recoil bounces the extractor hook up & over the case rim ... instead of remaining on the rim).

The lifetime warranty wasn't offered for private buyers until after it had been in place for a while for LE buyers of 3rd gen guns. The warranty is technically only for the original purchaser, or, for purchasers of demo/T&E guns that were sold used, but with a factory warranty offered. Sometimes the company doesn't ask ... and sometimes they do. It's their call whether they choose to ignore or invoke their stated warranty policy.

Doesn't hurt to ask, though.

Naturally, the ammunition being used (and its own potential tolerance issues) and the cleanliness of the chamber ... or even a "tight" chamber among an older 59XX barrel ... can also have an influence on "sticky" extraction.

Also, the older barrels marked "9mm Parabellum, in small font, instead of the more recent "9MM stamping", in larger numeric/alpha stamping, had some minor changes to their chambers. The 5906TSW barrels with the newer barrel hood markings supposedly had a slight change in their inside chamber wall angles, if I remember right, straightening them by something like 1 degree.

I've seen what happened when someone tried to remove an extractor pin in the wrong direction, using the wrong tools. It permanently ruined the slide. Extractor replacement isn't something I'd ever recommend be attempted by someone who does have the knowledge, tools and some actual experience.

Sure, you can always find someone, somewhere to managed to remove one of the tightly pressed solid extractor pins (in the right direction, using the right couple of pin punches), and who happened to use just the right extractor spring for their particular 59XX gun. Depending on luck isn't the best of plans for diagnosing and repairing a firearm, though. Nor the safest. ;)

Once an extractor and/or extractor spring is requires replacement in an older 59XX, I typically like to also replace the ejector. The older ones had short tips and a sharp corner angle under the rear of the tip that could sometimes develop a stress riser. The revised ejectors had longer tips for faster ejection (especially with hotter duty ammunition) and a curved angle to help prevent a stress riser from occurring. The ejector works just as hard as the extractor, working in combination each time the gun is fired, you know. It's a drop-in part (presuming knowledge of frame disassembly), as long as the right one is used, of course.

Try calling the factory, or seeing if there's a local gunsmith familiar with S&W pistols. The extractor & spring are pretty inexpensive (something like $20 for the extractor & a buck for whichever spring is appropriate). It's the labor that costs (and any shipping).

After all is said and done, it's not a difficult thing to check and correct/repair for an armorer, tech or gunsmith familiar with S&W pistols. Once it's done it's probably good for many more years and more rounds than you might be able to afford to shoot through it. ;)

Just my thoughts.
 
Silversmok3 is right: Call S&W. Tell them that it has an issue. They should send you (via e-mail) a FedEx shipping label.

Call FedEx: They will come to pick it up at your home/work. S&W is VERY good about fixing stuff.

I have used them a lot in the last few months to customize my 3rd Gens. If you run into issues, call Jim Rae ([email protected]). He's a VERY good man who is customer-oriented.

Be sure to leave a lengthy note (don't rely on your telephone message) with the gun detailing WHAT has happened. My guess is that it is either magazine-related or extractor/ejector-related. The ejectors on the 3rd Gens can get fouled up if they are a little off kilter. BE SURE TO INCLUDE THE MAGAZINES that were shot when the malfunctions occurred.

Don't worry: They'll sort it out. I'll bet that there will be no cost, or if there is, it will be nominal. The 3rd Gens are covered under the Lifetime Warranty. Hope this helps!
 
A dry slide or limp wrist could cause this problem. Cycling snap caps through it is not a great test. I would oil the slide and test fire it, with a firm grip, before going any farther with repairs.

It is a great gun and will give you a lot of good shooting time once this is sorted out.
 
Before you send it in and have to do with out it for a couple weeks, Take the extractor out and clean the slot, clean the extractor, inspect the extractor and spring, lube, and reassemble. If that does not correct the problem then send it in.
 
How do you get the extractor out? I took a punch to the pin that the extractor pivots on from the underside of the slide and it wouldn't budge.

I did take the gun out myself and put 200 rounds through it at a brisk pace without any issues.
 
The solid extractor pins are driven out from the top to the bottom (and installed from the bottom), and generally require the use of a beefier, tapered "starter" pin punch to break them loose, and then a regular 1/16" straight pin punch to complete removal once they're loosened ... and a 4 oz ball peen hammer. Slightly tapered pin hole, and the pins are installed using a heavy press during production. Older guns usually have the pins really tightly fit in the slides.
 
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Ahh driven out top to bottom... ok. I was confused because the bottom of the pin looks like a smaller diameter than the top side, so I thought they were driven out the other direction.

Thanks!

Edit: after reading everything by Fastbolt, I might just leave this job to the pro's. My 5906 is a TSW model. It has a new recoil spring. The mags I am using are mecgar which are brand new. The extractor's edge looks pretty good; it doesn't appear rounded and its definitely not chipped or anything like that.
 
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Out of curiosity, what ammo was being used when your wife experienced the couple of FTE's? Sometimes an ammo QC issue can make it seem as if there's a "gun problem", you know ...
 
I've shot more tens of thousands of rounds of their 147gr White Box" load over the years than I can remember, and almost as much is their .40/.45 JHP versions. For the most part, it's decent bargain grade ammo. Price reduction can often mean cost reduction (in components), though, and sometimes you may not get quite the same QC as you might in some of the more expensive lines.

I remember some years ago when I was told that one of the gun companies had discovered a tolerance/dimension issue with some of their budget ranger .40 loads. In that instances it supposedly involved the case rims being just a bit too large, and was thought to have contributed to some feeding issues. The velocities were observed to be down in the 700fps range, which was much slower than the factory specifications stated.

If the gun runs fine on different boxes of the same ammo (bought at different times, from different production lots(, and fine using a couple of other brands of 9mm ammo, I'd not be surprised if you just had a couple of ammo, less-than-sufficient grip stability conditions come together at the wrong time.

Especially if it didn't happen if/when you were shooting the same ammo through the same gun.

You could still call the company and explain that you have a 5906TSW that exhibited some failures-to-extract, and that it concerns you. See what they say.

I came across a relatively brand new production 4006TSW that had an apparent issue with the depth of the extractor spring hole, causing FTE's because the spring tension was below the stated factory range. A new spring (same part number) gave the same results ... too light of tension. It required the use of an optional heavier factory extractor spring to get the tension up to gauge properly (within the recommended range for a .40), and then the gun ran normally, just as intended.
 
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