617 excessive leading around forcing cone

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GT_80

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Hey everyone, I have a 617 that shoots great, but when I got it it had "mountains" of lead around the forcing cone, probably from the bullets shaving as they go into the forcing cone. I cleaned it really well, got all the lead off, and shot about 100 rounds through it, and had a little leading again. I looked at the face of the forcing cone very closely, and it looks like there are some burrs or rough surfaces on the entry to the forcing cone, also looks like the face of the barrel/forcing cone is really rough when I zoom in on the picture of the forcing cone.

I emailed S&W and they said .22LR is dirty, especially lead ammo, and you should clean the pistol every 50 rounds, and certainly every hundred, but if I want to I can ship the pistol back and have a gunsmith look at it.

I think cleaning every 50 rounds is bull****. I had a H&R 930 and a Charter arms Pathfinder and both of those I would put 200-300 rounds through, and not have this level of leading...

What do you all think? Should I try to knock the burrs down on the forcing cone with like a countersink bit by hand (just to take the rough edges off) or just send the gun back to S&W?

Photos coming...
 
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I have a 617 that I shoot a lot and have never seen leading like that. Something definitely needs to be looked at.
Did you send those images to S&W?
 
SS336 said:
I have a 617 that I shoot a lot and have never seen leading like that. Something definitely needs to be looked at.
Did you send those images to S&W?
Click to expand...

yes I did. Which is why I was surprised they didn't immediately ask for me to send it back...

Maybe they are inundated with service and are triaging new cases... I hate sending stuff back to the factory, especially when they are only 90 min from my house, but I feel I may need to in this case...
 
I agree with SS336, I think you might have a timing problem. The top strap and frame leading from just 100 rounds indicates to me there may be a timing problem. I also see machine marks in the forcing cone. I would contact S&W again and send these pictures to them explaining from just 100 rounds. This isn't right. I haven't had this much lead in my 617-6 in well over 1000+ rounds.
 
H Richard said:
I agree with SS336, I think you might have a timing problem. The top strap and frame leading from just 100 rounds indicates to me there may be a timing problem. I also see machine marks in the forcing cone. I would contact S&W again and send these pictures to them explaining from just 100 rounds. This isn't right. I haven't had this much lead in my 617-6 in well over 1000+ rounds.
Click to expand...

to be fair, these pictures of the leading were not after 100 rounds... this is what it looked like when I bought it. I have no idea how many shots were fired through it before I bought it. It was obvious the previous owner probably shot several hundred rounds through it, saw the leading, cleaned it as well as they could, and sold it. The gun was less than a year old when I got it.

I put about 100 rounds through it and the leading was much less than these pictures show, but it was very noticeable.
 
What type of ammo are you using?

I saw a 22 pistol that never had any trouble with leading until my friend that owned it bought a bunch of Remington Thunderbolt ammo. The lead was everywhere with that ammo. If you have or can find some CCI Minimags, or some other type of good quality plated ammo, try that before sending the gun back.

If it isn't ammo I am not sure what would cause that. You would think a timing issue would result in one side of the forcing cone having worse leading than the other and that does not seem to be the case.
 
that is NOT leading, thats shaving, plus I dont like the mangled corners of the forcing cone. You would never have that kind of lead buildup outside the forcing cone with a gun properly timed with a properly cut forcing cone.
 
Dave Lively said:
What type of ammo are you using?

I saw a 22 pistol that never had any trouble with leading until my friend that owned it bought a bunch of Remington Thunderbolt ammo. The lead was everywhere with that ammo. If you have or can find some CCI Minimags, or some other type of good quality plated ammo, try that before sending the gun back.

If it isn't ammo I am not sure what would cause that. You would think a timing issue would result in one side of the forcing cone having worse leading than the other and that does not seem to be the case.
Click to expand...

Again, the lead buildup in these pics was there from the previous owner, not me, so I don't know what kind of ammo it was. I have shot only good quality ammo out of it- aguila, federal, etc, and I still have the same issue.
 
GT_80 said:
Again, the lead buildup in these pics was there from the previous owner, not me, so I don't know what kind of ammo it was. I have shot only good quality ammo out of it- aguila, federal, etc, and I still have the same issue.
Click to expand...

It needs to go back to Smith and Wesson, plain and simple, and end of story.

We can talk theories all day long.
 
The pictures do seem to indicate that the forcing cone needs polished at minimum. I see what seem to be prominent tool marks. Possibly recut with an 11 degree reamer and then repolished.
 
My friend had a model 17 that had leading about like that! The area above the barrel between the topstrap was caked with it. I cleaned the barrel squeaky clean, dug all the lead out and bought a go/no go gauge from Brownells and a .22 forcing cone cutter. The gauge indicated it was way too tight. I opened the forcing cone up to the minimum acceptable and gave it back to him. No more leading.

If you don't want to send it back Brownells has the tools and it is not a complex job to check and correct. Otherwise it is a several month trip to the factory.
 
I've experienced the same problem with my 617 but it shoots great. I did a little gunsmithing to it and you may want to do the same. I re-cut the forcing cone to 11 degrees. It took out all the old tooling marks.

I tested the timing and it was off just a bit. That took replacing the hand. I couldn't do that work myself and gave it to my gunsmith.

I also had sticky chambers. I took a Clymer Chamber Cutter to each cylinder. No more sticky chambers with any ammo I shoot.

I've found the best ammo to shoot lots of rounds with is Federal Bulk Pack BYOB. I use this for Steel Challenge Matches.

I've done a lot of other work to my 617. It's my favorite gun to shoot and I seldom go to the range without it.

wsRZnvT.jpg
 
well, we were all wrong... I looked at it with my phone camera at high magnification this morning, and my heart sank...

IMG_2114.jpg

IMG_2115.jpg

IMG_2117.jpg

do you see the problem? Frame is cracked... Wonder if the original owner and the shop I bought it from missed that... Or if the original owner saw it and that's why he traded it in. I paid a lot for this thing so I am not very happy. I really hope S&W replaces this thing. It is only like a 2019 year of manufacture.

I asked for a shipping label, will keep you all informed as to what happens.

Really bummed...
 
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