Invictus357
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The simplest thing to do is send it back to S&W and get them to have a look at it.
686+ disappointment
- Thread starter Nix45
- Start date
Fair questions. I think my disappointment stems from the fact that I had used the revolver--with misfires, of course--when it had a 10.5# trigger pull. Doesn't take long to get used to that. And by comparison, 12# feels much heavier. That's a 10% increase in pull weight.
In re the competition, I have complained to Ruger about Ruger's **** DA triggers. However, my GP-100 has been 100% reliable for 25 years. And with the Ruger, I was able to do a trigger job and swap out a couple of springs myself. Trigger pull in the GP is now very smooth and about 10#. And it's been 100% reliable.
My S&W M-19-3 came second hand and I don't know what, if anything was done to it, but it is quite smooth and I'd estimate a 10-11# trigger, but I haven't measured it. It, too, has been 100% reliable.
So while I don't expect a custom-tuned revolver off the shelf of my LGS, I do expect a pistol that one can rely on and has a decent trigger. Seriously.
Longer firing pin, check internals and smooth out rebound slide surfaces, hammer and trigger stud bosses. Sides of hammer and trigger drag marks? These can all cause a slight increase in trigger pull and in the case of hammer dragging rob momentum from the hammer causing a need for increase spring tension for reliability.
Yes in a perfect world all these should be addressed before it leaves the factory, but we are talking about a massed produced piece here. It is also why you have gunsmiths who do action jobs. You can have a reliable 10# double action pull. But, your not going to get it very often with an out of the box gun.
S&W installs a heavier than really needed trigger rebound spring and hammer spring for a reason. To get reliability in the face of small manufacturing imperfections.
Some of these small imperfections will smooth out with use. A gun that has been cycled thousands of times will be smoother than a new one. The parts wear in, just like a piston in a new cylinder in a new motor.
Once everything is as smooth as possible things like lighter rebound and hammer springs will work more reliably.
It is very similar to car motors. They work reliable when they come from the factory, but if you want the most from them you won't get it just tossing on some aftermarket parts. You need to blueprint the engine. Check and refine every part.
It is interesting that Ed McGivern liked stock springs. He wanted reliability. He didn't miss very often. Smooth and reliable beats light.
Yes in a perfect world all these should be addressed before it leaves the factory, but we are talking about a massed produced piece here. It is also why you have gunsmiths who do action jobs. You can have a reliable 10# double action pull. But, your not going to get it very often with an out of the box gun.
S&W installs a heavier than really needed trigger rebound spring and hammer spring for a reason. To get reliability in the face of small manufacturing imperfections.
Some of these small imperfections will smooth out with use. A gun that has been cycled thousands of times will be smoother than a new one. The parts wear in, just like a piston in a new cylinder in a new motor.
Once everything is as smooth as possible things like lighter rebound and hammer springs will work more reliably.
It is very similar to car motors. They work reliable when they come from the factory, but if you want the most from them you won't get it just tossing on some aftermarket parts. You need to blueprint the engine. Check and refine every part.
It is interesting that Ed McGivern liked stock springs. He wanted reliability. He didn't miss very often. Smooth and reliable beats light.
DocGlock
Member
Order placed with Brownell's.Thanks.
If I'm not mistaken, do not dry fire with the extended firing pin installed without using snap caps. They should state in their instructions if this is still so.
Thanks for the warning. I use snap caps in all my wheel guns...just to be safe.
What he said ^
If that's the case......
If that's the case it'd be best to send it back. There is NO reason a 586/686 should have an unsatisfactory trigger.
If that's the case it'd be best to send it back. There is NO reason a 586/686 should have an unsatisfactory trigger.
UPDATE:
I got the 686+ out to the range today. The new strain screw seems to have done the trick. I shot 50 rounds of Winchester White box and 70 rounds of handloads using different brass and with different primers.
Zero failures. 100% fire rate.
I can see clearly that the firing pin is hitting the primers harder and causing a deeper indentation now with the new strain screw. I think she's fixed.
I can also see clearly the need to practice more as the bullets seem to take on an independent sense of direction past 15 yards or so. Still shooting left a bit. I adjusted the sights a tad, but I think I'm just not shooting DA all that well. The trigger pull at 12# doesn't seem too bad now, after shooting it today. I guess I'd like to see it tuned a bit, but will wait until I've shot it some more.
I got the 686+ out to the range today. The new strain screw seems to have done the trick. I shot 50 rounds of Winchester White box and 70 rounds of handloads using different brass and with different primers.
Zero failures. 100% fire rate.
I can see clearly that the firing pin is hitting the primers harder and causing a deeper indentation now with the new strain screw. I think she's fixed.
I can also see clearly the need to practice more as the bullets seem to take on an independent sense of direction past 15 yards or so. Still shooting left a bit. I adjusted the sights a tad, but I think I'm just not shooting DA all that well. The trigger pull at 12# doesn't seem too bad now, after shooting it today. I guess I'd like to see it tuned a bit, but will wait until I've shot it some more.
iPac
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I was just thinking the same thing, and was astonished how many people are completely comfortable with 12#+ DA trigger pulls. That is just absurd to me.
Is that the norm with S&W actions? I only have 2 Smiths, a 17-4 and a 629-2E. The rest are Colts and don't even come close to 9#.
My 629 had what I would estimate almost 14# DA pull. I say that because my Lyman only goes to 12# and it maxed out well before it could break. I went and installed an 11# rebound spring and modded the strain screw to lighten the mainspring enough that the trigger would rebound, which brought it down to a 9# pull. It shoots flawlessly and fires any primer in it.
Like above, it could even be lower to 6#-7# and should fire reliably. Something else is at play here most likely.
Wee Hooker
Member
Ok, now that you've got it running reliably, it's not hard to reduce the trigger pull down by a couple of pounds without fear of light strikes. This is done by replacing the factory trigger return spring with a 13 or 14# unit (but leaving the main/hammer spring bone stock).
While your in there, a little polishing of the rebound slide might gain you another 1/2 #.
It's not hard, requires no special tools and costs less than $10 .
While your in there, a little polishing of the rebound slide might gain you another 1/2 #.
It's not hard, requires no special tools and costs less than $10 .
Last edited:
rbmorse
Member
Doc, why is this?
Not arguing...I've heeded the warning and use snap caps since I installed a long firing pin in my 986, but I'd appreciate it if someone could explain why they're needed.
DocGlock
Member
I don't know if it's maybe more brittle from the hardening process, or what it's made of, or something else. Hopefully someone with more knowledge of this will chime in.
RevUp_Action
Member
Sometimes the extended firing pins have the flat on the FP cut too far back. This allows the FP to go too far forward. This in turn can damage the FP return spring or sometimes cause the FP to break.
Smith and Wesson.....
Smith and Wesson states that all of their revolvers can be dry fired and therefore need no snap caps. Now, modified guns I can't speak for.
Smith and Wesson states that all of their revolvers can be dry fired and therefore need no snap caps. Now, modified guns I can't speak for.
You got it. Practice.
It's not unusual at all to need more practice shooting DA. Practice dry firing in the house and make sure the gun doesn't move throughout the trigger pull. Make your trigger finger work independently of any other part of your hand. This is fast and cheap, can be done anytime and is one of the best drills for steadying up a DA gun.
It's not unusual at all to need more practice shooting DA. Practice dry firing in the house and make sure the gun doesn't move throughout the trigger pull. Make your trigger finger work independently of any other part of your hand. This is fast and cheap, can be done anytime and is one of the best drills for steadying up a DA gun.
rbmorse
Member
^^^ this.
If you're like me you will need to do this a lot!
If you're like me you will need to do this a lot!
