9mm shield shoots to the left

[Rastoff]

I get to watch a lot of new shooters, and it somewhat amuses me that "the gun shoots left" never "I shoot left with this gun"

This will never change. No matter what the subject, it's normal for us to blame the equipment. This bat's no good, this golf club isn't the right flex, this football is under inflated. Human nature.

Never mind that I can put them all in the same hole that close with the same gun........

Exaggerating just a little are we, hmmm? Yep, I've done exactly the same thing. Had a guy in my CCW class with a Shield 9mm. When the class started the first thing he asked was if I could help him adjust he sights. I just grinned and said, "Yes. Once we get to the range, I'll help you with the sights." He let me use his gun and, having never fired a Shield before, I put the first round about 3" below the aim point. The next four were on the aim point in about a 3" group. Of course he accused me of aiming to the right. What's funny is I'm a lefty.

Unfortunately, a lighter trigger and heavier gun mask shooting technique problems, but small guns with service triggers exacerbate them.

This is probably the most insightful sentence in this whole thread, and absolutely correct. Those who insist the problem cannot be them will continue to shoot poorly even with their 'good' guns. What kills me is that, with the suggested improvements, they would only get better with the other guns. You can lead a horse to water...

I've shot revolvers double action since 1974 and had no problems transitioning to M&P pistols.

If only more of us would spend time shooting revolvers double action this would come up much less.

My new 9mm shield shoots to the left.
FACTS: I am an experienced shooter, retired Deputy Sheriff, I'm good enough to take myself out of the problem. I know how to make corrections to the sights.

Sir, it could be your gun. The only way to know for sure is by shooting it from a rest. Have you done that?

[quote="BlackTalonJHP]Once, just once, I would like to see a thread titled 'My new gun is shooting to the right'.[/quote]As and ye shall receive: http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...-coach-why-am-i-shooting-low-right-lefty.html The answers anyone, with a handgun accuracy issue, is looking for, is in that thread.

 

[Magload]

I Shoot my Shield 40 to the left. There I said it i know it is me and I even do it off a rest. I had the range manager shoot it. Handed him it loaded with 8 rounds and at 7 yards he placed all 8 in a 2" bull. Yep it is not the sights. So I worked harder at it. 400 rounds later and probably that many dry fires at a laser target I can hit that 2 inch bull if I really try hard. Normally I have this great group 2" left of the bull. Don

 

[cbr6864]

Doesn't really matter what your experience is....a new firearm is just that new. It takes a while to get use to it. Now if 3 different guys all shooting from bench experienced the exact same thing I'd say it's the gun.

I stack a bunch of quarters on the the slide when I dry fire. It teaches you proper trigger control with different handguns

 

[Rastoff]

Normally I have this great group 2" left of the bull. Don

Kudos to you for owning up. This does bring up an interesting point though.

I've seen a lot of guys say, "I'm shooting a 2" group off center so, it can't be me. It must be the gun or it wouldn't be that small a group." I know it's hard to believe, but, as Magload demonstrates, people can be very consistent.

It is my opinion that the biggest problem with the M&P trigger is over travel. We hear a lot of complaints about gritty triggers. That gritty part is just in the slack or take-up. With proper trigger control you won't even notice it.

Then some complain about the triggers being heavy. Well, that is an issue and it will compound the over travel problem. Here's what I think is going on. Please comment with your thoughts on this:

The number one cause of hitting low left, with any gun, is a slight flinch from the shooter. For some it is recoil anticipation. A heavy trigger compounds this anticipation. The shooter is doing everything right. They are concentrating on the front sight and building pressure on the trigger. With a heavy trigger though, we tend to get impatient and try to force the shot. This leads to a low shot.

The next cause really isn't the shooter's fault. They build pressure on the trigger until it breaks, but, because of over-travel, the muzzle is shifted ever so slightly. Combine these two issues, heavy trigger and lots of over-travel, and you have a recipe for very consistently low and off center shots.

This movement is compounded the further the target is.

 

[ClayCow]

,i believe this was about 15 yardish. Consistently top left

1911 .45 acp

 

[Rastoff]

ClayCow,
That's often caused by what some call "heeling" the gun. Usually this is due to recoil anticipation. We tend to push the gun to counteract recoil.

One potential fix is to put all your focus on keeping the proper sight picture. Think about nothing but that. Then just build pressure on the trigger while concentrating on maintaining the proper sight picture. The trigger break should be a surprise.

 

[shotguntom]

When I bought my shield, it shot left also. I felt it was the trigger. I installed an Apex duty carry package, leaving the factory trigger unchanged. After the install, the grittiness was gone, reset was improved, and shooting to the left was gone. Sweet trigger made all the difference for me. Worth the investment. Jmho

 

[ClayCow]

ClayCow,
That's often caused by what some call "heeling" the gun. Usually this is due to recoil anticipation. We tend to push the gun to counteract recoil.

One potential fix is to put all your focus on keeping the proper sight picture. Think about nothing but that. Then just build pressure on the trigger while concentrating on maintaining the proper sight picture. The trigger break should be a surprise.

Yea. Though i thought i wasnt anticipating recoil, it really showed when i was shooting a .22 pistol. I was jerking the pistol before it shot. Still trying not to anticipate it.

 

[Rastoff]

Don't sweat it ClayCow. We ALL have a flinch to some degree.

 

[woolyt2]

I see where alot of people say that it is the way you are holding the gun but, my 40 shield would shoot left , the rear sight was off to the right .
but you did say your sights were centered i would check again, it took me a minute to see the rear was off

 

[Rastoff]

I see where alot of people say that it is the way you are holding the gun but, my 40 shield would shoot left , the rear sight was off to the right .

So, you moved your rear sight to the left and your point of impact moved to the right? Are you sure?

 

[MichiganScott]

So, you moved your rear sight to the left and your point of impact moved to the right? Are you sure?

No shooter influence here. It has to be the sights. Right.

How does it shoot now?

 

[woolyt2]

after moving the rear sight to the left to center the sight it shoots poa
just like a rifle if you move the rear on direction the front moves the other

 

[NCavi8tor]

after moving the rear sight to the left to center the sight it shoots poa
just like a rifle if you move the rear on direction the front moves the other

I've always used the acronym F.O.R.S. when adjusting iron sights. Front Opposite, Rear Same for moving the POI. This has worked for me for 35 years. Your adjustment has me scratching my almost bald head!

NC

 

[Stratajema]

It seems the more experienced a shooter is the harder it is for him to accept the fact that he may be the problem...

Why do people always blame the shooter for the inaccuracy when the OP told you that he was experienced? The locking block/lock up on the gun is likely to be out of spec.

 

[austinjeane]

I had the same problem with my M&P shooting low and to the left. I fixed this problem by standing to the right of the target on a 1980 Houston telephone book.

 

[Elliot45]

Before I bought my Shield, I rented one and it was fantastic and the trigger was great. When I was shopping I dry fired a couple at different shops and noticed that the trigger was stiffer, not near as smooth and sequentially caused me to pull left and down. Therefore, I was aware that this might happen and concentrated on keeping my wrist stiffer and arm straighter. I also bought 1,000 rounds of 124 grain ammo from Freedom Munitions and ran that through. After about 300 rounds the trigger got better, although not as good as the rental gun, and now that I've run over 500 rounds through it, all is well. So much so that I've decided not to get the Apex FSS trigger kit that I purchased for my M&P 9mm Pro. For self defense I prefer not to have an extremely light trigger and it is just about right now. I also noticed a difference in accuracy between using the two magazines. BTW, I too am an experienced shooter and still experienced the low and left issue for a short time so I wouldn't give up on it. There is always a chance the sites might be off but you can have a gunsmith look at them if you still think that is the issue and have them adjust them. As someone else mentioned, this isn't a target gun (I have the 9mm Pro and other guns for that) but I've found the Shield to be accurate enough up to 21'. I practice with the Shield for rapid firing between 15' to 21' and can still put them in a tight group and that is what I purchased the gun for and that's good enough for me. I've owned my Shield for a month and have never had a misfire or failure of any kind so my experience is such that it is my favorite conceal and carry weapon and I highly recommend it and can't imagine carrying anything else. Hope you can get the accuracy you are looking for. Best of luck, Elliot45

 

[PHolster]

Until you shoot it from a rest, all other "answers" are speculation. Shoot it from a rest, see where it shoots, and only then consider moving the sights.

I'm truly amazed every time one of these threads come up. Shoot from a rest, see what the gun is actually doing. Get rid of all other variables.

 

[OKFC05]

Exaggerating just a little are we, hmmm?

But you've said a billion times that instructors never exaggerate!!

Seriously, for Oklahoma CHL class, the first shots are at 3 yards, and the FAR TARGET is 5 yards.
I've had more than one good shooter literally put them all in one hole on the first target, while others, obviously not so good, missed the entire target...................and wanted me to adjust the sights for them

You could easily pass the Oklahoma CHL shooting with NO SIGHTS on the pistol.

 

[Rastoff]

You could easily pass the Oklahoma CHL shooting with NO SIGHTS on the pistol.

And with a blind fold.

Are you serious? The longest shot is from 5 yards? All from the ready? Any time pressure? Send me the course of fire. I will indeed video myself shooting it blindfolded. What have I got to lose? I'm not proud.

I have a friend who did that with the Texas CHL test. That test is done at 3, 7 and 15 yards. Needless to say his shots from 15 yards were less than optimal, but he shot well enough to pass.