9mm taper crimp and bullet seating die ??

[Ballistic147]

I've got the Hornady Series II dies for 9mm that I use in my LNL AP and I get a slight ring on the bullet with FMJ's. Not a big deal at all and doesn't effect accuracy best I can tell. The seat/crimp die is similar to the American series where adjusting the amount of crimp requires moving the entire die body up or down. The seating depth is adjusted by a separate knob that screws into the die body. I do like the bullet guide as it lines the bullet up well before it is seated. The split lock rings are really nice too, especially using them with the LNL bushing system. I've bought extras to use on a couple Lee dies I have.

 

[rwsmith]

How in the world????

How in the world does a taper crimping die leave a ring on the bullet? That shouldn't happen and I'd think about getting different die.

All a taper crimp is supposed to do is take the flare off the case mouth and push it (with no pressure) against the side of the bullet.

 

[flyrobb]

I've done it too...

How in the world does a taper crimping die leave a ring on the bullet? That shouldn't happen and I'd think about getting different die.

All a taper crimp is supposed to do is take the flare off the case mouth and push it (with no pressure) against the side of the bullet.

It's the seating stem that's leaving the ring. It doesn't match the shape of the bullet so the edge on the bottom of the stem is what's leaving the ring.

I would venture to guess he is actually crimping (not just removing the flare) while seating so there is a fair amount of pressure while seating and the stem shape doesn't match the shape of the bullet.

I have had this happen when I first started hand loading and was way over crimping while seating, and this was with RCBS dies. Again, if the shape of the seating stem doesn't match the bullet profile it will leave the ring DYI is referring to.

I have to agree that seating and crimping in one step can be done but it's much easier, at least for me, to get a consistent COL in separate steps, especially when starting out.

 

[rwsmith]

Ah, I see.......

It's the seating stem that's leaving the ring. It doesn't match the shape of the bullet so the edge on the bottom of the stem is what's leaving the ring.

I would venture to guess he is actually crimping (not just removing the flare) while seating so there is a fair amount of pressure while seating and the stem shape doesn't match the shape of the bullet.

I have had this happen when I first started hand loading and was way over crimping while seating, and this was with RCBS dies. Again, if the shape of the seating stem doesn't match the bullet profile it will leave the ring DYI is referring to.

I have to agree that seating and crimping in one step can be done but it's much easier, at least for me, to get a consistent COL in separate steps, especially when starting out.

Thanks for the explanation! I don't always have a good match for the seating stem, either. I hear that you can use sealing wax molded as a temporary fix, but I haven't tried it. i have a special stem for Speer Gold Dots, but you have to be extra careful or it will flatten the nose of the bullet.

 

[flyrobb]

Thanks for the explanation! I don't always have a good match for the seating stem, either. I hear that you can use sealing wax molded as a temporary fix, but I haven't tried it. i have a special stem for Speer Gold Dots, but you have to be extra careful or it will flatten the nose of the bullet.

I have flattened a few noses myself. I've heard about the wax mold too but I'm not messing with it. I can see if you're loading a good bullet like the Gold Dots you would want a good fit but for target RN and SCW the round and flat stems work good enough.

 

[scooter123]

When I first started reloading the 380 ACP the only die set I could find was the Lee 3 die budget step. While attempting to get the combined seat crimp die set up I found that as soon as the edge of the case started to "bite" into the jacket of the Hornady XTP I was reloading with and at that point the bullet would "stall" and stop moving into the case. The result was either I assemble the ammunition with no crimp at all or I accept that the nose on every round would be "crushed". A temporary solution that worked to get me ammo to shoot for the next range day was to chamfer every case like we do with Rifle cases, a rather tedious thing to do. That evening after putting together 100 rounds I got on Midway's web site and ordered a Lee Factory Crimp Die for the 380 ACP.

DIYguy, I've worked with Titanium Nitride since the mid 80's and can tell you that I am not the least bit of a fan of this particular coating. In part because I've been involved with fabricating stainless steel exhaust and fuel system components for the auto industry and TiN is pretty short lived when used to swage stainless steel. I vastly superior coating is a multilayer coating that finishes with a Titanium Carbide top layer, when used with a Carbide substrate and the correct lube we can swage many many thousands of tubes before we have to re-polish the tool.

Point is, I believe that Carbide is a superior material for sizing dies and consider Titanium Nitride as a bit of a "cheap out". I would suggest that you look for a Lee 4 die set for the 9mm, these aren't terribly expensive (under 50 bucks) and you get a Carbide Sizing Die and the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

BTW, one criticism I do have to the Lee dies is the friction lock for hte de-capping stem in the sizing die. You have to tighten that lock nearly to the point of bending your wrench to keep it from slipping. If you were to look at most of my pistol die sets you would find they are rather mix and match. For me the RCBS Sizing/Decapping dies are first rate. For the Flare die I've have enough problem with the RCBS flaring die that I prefer the Lee Powder thru Flaring die. Then to press the bullets into the case I reach for RCBS again. Finally to crimp anything I reload I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. A small bit of good news is that you can Purchase RCBS Dies individually so I will typically start out with a Lee Die Set and fill in the Size/DeCap and Bullet Press with RCBS products. I'll also stock up on multiple Bullet Press dies for those calibers where I load a variety of bullet profiles and lengths.

 

[rwsmith]

I don't use them on targets anyway!!!!

I have flattened a few noses myself. I've heard about the wax mold too but I'm not messing with it. I can see if you're loading a good bullet like the Gold Dots you would want a good fit but for target RN and SCW the round and flat stems work good enough.

They are way too scarce and way too expensive. SWCs are plenty good enough for me. And they have a nice big meplat that won't get smashed unless you hammer on it.

 

[rwsmith]

I just said the same thing...

BTW, one criticism I do have to the Lee dies is the friction lock for hte de-capping stem in the sizing die. You have to tighten that lock nearly to the point of bending your wrench to keep it from slipping. If you were to look at most of my pistol die sets you would find they are rather mix and match. For me the RCBS Sizing/Decapping dies are first rate. For the Flare die I've have enough problem with the RCBS flaring die that I prefer the Lee Powder thru Flaring die. Then to press the bullets into the case I reach for RCBS again. Finally to crimp anything I reload I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die. A small bit of good news is that you can Purchase RCBS Dies individually so I will typically start out with a Lee Die Set and fill in the Size/DeCap and Bullet Press with RCBS products. I'll also stock up on multiple Bullet Press dies for those calibers where I load a variety of bullet profiles and lengths.

I recently had a posting about the same thing. The o-ring on the locking nut and trying to keep the decapper from slipping. These are two design features that I wasn't used to and because they are different, they require some different handling. Many people have great success with them and next time I use a set, I'll know more about what to do. And I did the same thing, ordered an RCBS sizing/decapper. One thing I'm going to do is replace the o-ring nut with Lyman cross bolt locking rings.

 

[H Richard]

I have no problem with 9mm crimp. I use RCBS 3 die set in my Dillon 550. The way I set the seat/crimp die is set the crimp by using a sized and expanded case (without any bullet) then adjust my die until I have a .003 less than full OD case measurement on the empty case mouth, (.377"). Then set the OAL to what you want.

 

[Ultimate407]

reloading


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[Ultimate407]

Does anybody have a recipe for 158gr 9mm with oal


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[Ultimate407]

Does anybody have a recipe for 158 grain 9 mm projector with Oal


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[jimbo728]

I have no problem with 9mm crimp. I use RCBS 3 die set in my Dillon 550. The way I set the seat/crimp die is set the crimp by using a sized and expanded case (without any bullet) then adjust my die until I have a .003 less than full OD case measurement on the empty case mouth, (.377"). Then set the OAL to what you want.

In all the discussion Im glad H Richard mentioned the correct case mouth dimension, .377. Kudos.
9mm is quite simple. No roll crimp of any kind. Set desired OAL. Adjust taper crimp to .377 at case mouth. It doesnt take much to achieve this.
Jim

 

[WR Moore]

Loading in the same Federal casings. What I'm finding is every bullet after seating has a full ring indent in the middle of the bullet 3/16" from the end.

OK, are you talking about a ring at the tip of the bulllet? Kinda like a ring around the tip? If so, it's probably the edges of the bullet seating punch. OR, if further down, could be contact with the taper crimp die. If it's that, either you have a bad die or you''re over crimping. Come to think of it, if you're way over length, that might do it.

Contrary to the folks who don't crimp reloads, a proper crimp prevents bullet setback, possible misfeeds and promotes more even powder burn. Really good idea with all semi-auto ammo.

Suggestion: put a factory round in the press and run the ram all the way up. Back off the bullet seating stem and die lock ring. Now, run the die body down to firm contact with the round. Run the lock ring down and lock it. Then, run the seating stem down to contact with the bullet and lightly lock it.

The above gives you a starting point for die adjustments. You may need to do slight changes in crimp and seating depth, but you're in the ball park. Give it a try.

 

[scooter123]

WR Moore, I am Jealous. That procedure of yours for setting up a Seat/Crimp die is about the most efficient and simplest method I've ever seen put forward. If I wasn't totally fed up with trying to use this combined operation I would steal that procedure from you. Consider this a big thumbs up.

 

[DIYguy]

WR More: Part of the mystery solved, its the Hornady bullet seating stem. I took the die apart and fit the cartridge with the bullet with ring around it and the ring matched up with the end of the stem. OD of the seating stem measures.3545 and ID measures.214. The edge of the stem is pressing a ring into the soft Berrys bullets. This is using the American Series die.

 

[LAA]

WR More: Part of the mystery solved, its the Hornady bullet seating stem. I took the die apart and fit the cartridge with the bullet with ring around it and the ring matched up with the end of the stem. OD of the seating stem measures.3545 and ID measures.214. The edge of the stem is pressing a ring into the soft Berrys bullets. This is using the American Series die.

I don't know if that particular Hornady die offers more than one stem or not. But, many dies do, and some have two reversible ends, or a completely different stem included in the box. Just find one, that doesn't put a ring on the bullet. I went through the same process, once.

edit: I also use lots of Berry's bullets. There will be stems that work great, even if the shape doesn't look like it will.

 

[Hasbeen1945]

I crimp in a separate step. I've found the Lee carbide crimp die works real well. It sizes the case and crimps the case. The way it adjusts it is repeatable from session to session.

 

[LostintheOzone]

I don't know much about your die set, but I am a firm believer in doing the taper crimp separate from bullet seating in 9 MM. You can pick up a Lee Factory Crimp die for around $18 plus shipping from Midway right now. And Amazon has it for the same price and free shipping if you are an Amazon Prime member.

LFCD. That's what I use on 9 mm, 45 ACP and 357. Never have liked seating and crimping with the same die. I know, it's an extra step, but I can get those crimps just exactly the way I want them. Before I found out about the lee die I just backed my seater plug out and crimped without it. I just got tired of adjusting it so moved on to the LFCD.

 

[flyrobb]

I have no problem with 9mm crimp. I use RCBS 3 die set in my Dillon 550. The way I set the seat/crimp die is set the crimp by using a sized and expanded case (without any bullet) then adjust my die until I have a .003 less than full OD case measurement on the empty case mouth, (.377"). Then set the OAL to what you want.

Ok, so this confused me a bit, but I'm from S. IL so that might explain that, anyway I digress.

Wouldn't you want to set the crimp and/or take measurements after the bullet is seated because that would change the dimension on the case, just below the case mouth, depending on the size of the bullet and brass thickness?

The RCBS die instructions say to TC to .001-.002 less than the measurement below the case mouth. Per their instructions I set the COL first, back the seating stem out, set the TC, then screw the seating stem back down till it touch's the bullet. (I am working on a SS press)

Bullet dimensions. You mention .377, my reloads (Xtreme 115 RN-HP) measure .375 and a Federal 115 FMJ factory load measures the same. My Bayou 125 SWC coated measure .376. So wouldn't the crimp be set, (.001-.003 depending on what works for you) relative to the case measurement after the bullet is seated?

I may be splitting hairs here and you guys have been at this way longer than me so I'm just trying to understand a new method.