A Brit-made six-gun that I love, the Enfield No. 2 MK I*

[dabney]

Back in the early 1980's, I became enamored with the WW2-era .380-200 British Enfield No. 2 MK I* Revolver. These break-top wheel guns were a throw-back to the .455 Webley of WW1 times and even further back to the Zulu Wars of the late 1800's. The image of the tall, brave British Officer, armed with his break top Enfield .476 Revolver, standing tall in the face of a fierce Zulu Warrior charge has always captured my imagination. The Enfield Revolvers of WW2 were chambered in the .380 British or our .38 Smith & Wesson cartridge. A short pudgy .38 round traveling at a very modest velocity served the British Military and home defense forces during the war and for many years after. I understand that India, a former Brit colony still uses this cartridge in Ruger Police Service-Six Revolvers for their home defense forces. The Enfield has always been interesting to me as a collector firearm and for a while could be had on the cheap-side. There were but three Enfield makers during WW2, the Enfield Factory itself, Howard Auto Cultivators (HAC) of Sydney, Australia, and Albion Motors of Scotland. These three put out Enfields during the War, with the biggest producer being the Enfield Factory. The Enfields were transferred to former colonial interests after the War, some in use to this day, I'm told. I've managed a modest collection of these British handguns down through the years due to the low cost. Nowadays, a pristine Enfield will bring 300-dollars or more and I keep my best one charged with Remington 145-grain LRN ammo as a house gun. From time to time, I enjoy capping off a few rounds at the range, and under 20-feet, a small group can be obtained. The ultra-reliable Enfield, chambered in .380-200, will make most intruders, with evil intent, leave your property (home) post hast! Drugged up terminators are not included here, cause my old bolt-action JC Higgins 12-gauge Shotgun loaded with No. 7 birdshot stands at the ready (closet). When viewing/examining the Enfield No. 2 MK I*, one notices the difference in craftsmanship and quality between our guns (S&W, Colt) and theirs. Sitting that aside, I love the British Enfield! Nostalgia rules with a tried and true veteran of WW2 for me. I know many wouldn't care for the light-hitting .38 S&W but, and a big but, most two-legged varmints won't take more than 1-hit from the British Enfield before moving, quickly, away from you and yours! Thank you my friends for your patience and kindness here!

David

 

[Otreb]

The DAO trigger on mine takes a bit of getting used to, but I really enjoy shooting it. I wish someone loaded a good wad cutter for .38SW.

 

[M1A]

I was looking for an Enfield or Webley. Ended up with the Webley Mark III commercial/police (no lanyard ring), .38 S&W c.1927.
It is fun to shoot. I used the Remington ammo along with Privi Partisan. Now I just reload for it
It is a pop, pop, but I wouldn't want to catch them.
Some pics, guys.

 

[les.b]

David, you know that pictures are always appreciated.

One of my first handguns when I was a teenager (my parents had to pick it up at the railway express office when it came in) was ordered from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago. I think it cost about $16.00. It was a Webley No 4, if I remember correctly, and I still regret trading it off many years ago. Last year, in a fit of nostalgia, I bought a Webley from GunBroker, it was a post war model made for the Israelis, I believe, and is not quite the same as my old trusty sidekick from my youth!!! Oh, it shoots alright, but I think it has some sneaky "safety" mechanism incorporated in it somewhere. I don't have any photos right now, but will try to post some.

If I remember correctly, the enfield is DAO and the Webley is DA/SA. Webley designed the firearm, and submitted the design for approval to the government, and the rejected the design, made a few modifications, and then began to produce it with no recognition of Webley's original design!! I think (can't remember exactly) that Webley later sued, and received some royalties.

 

[Texas Star]

The No. 2 MK I with selective DA trigger is better for aimed shots, as is the Webley MK IV .38. The Enfield with a DA-only trigger is hard to shoot well, and most have very heavy DA pulls.

My choice along these lines would be the Webley, but with a commercial blued finish; those marked War Finish are pretty rough.

 

[Texas Star]

Les-

Thanks for the Like.

BTW, you wrote earlier that the Webley was a "NO. 4." You may be thinking of the No. 4 .303 rifle! The Webley revolver was a MK IV .38 numbered in their commercial series, not the military series, in which the MK IV is a .455.

If I had the money, I'd be after the best Webley, in my view. That was the Wilkinson-Webley .455, Model 1911. It looks like the slightly later MK VI military model, but has a nice bright blue finish, hand-honed action, and walnut grips with a gold oval for the owner's initials. Model 1905 is almost identical, but the rifling varies. The Model WG, in several variations from 1889-at least 1896, is also a beautifully made gun, but the frame is longer than needed and the later guns are safer with smokeless ammo.

 

[Texas Star]

Dabney-

The Enfield .476 was not a top-break gun. It used a unique ejection system deigned by an American named Jones. The Enfield was not well liked, and was replaced after just seven or so years by the Webley MK I. The Enfields were sent to Canada, where the Mounties also disliked them.

Officers then bought their own swords and pistols, and I doubt that many preferred the Enfield. The .476 cartridge was pretty good at close ranges, a 265 grain or a 288 grain bullet at some 700 fps. Better than the later .455 MK II, but almost the same as the .455 MK I. The .455 Colt is basically the MK I.

Officers in the Second Zulu War of 1879 would probably have used Adams or Tranter arms, or Colts. The Enfield didn't even appear until about 1882-1883.

If you read, "King Solomon's Mines", by Sir Henry Rider Haggard, you'll see that he provided Colt SAA .45 revolvers for his heroes. That book was written in 1883, by a veteran of the Zulu war. In fact, his Kukuana fictional tribe had many resemblances to Zulu customs.

I've read that in the 1880s, the .44-40 and .45 Colt were so popular among officers that the British Army in India stocked ammo for both. Lt. Col. Vincent Fosbery, VC, who later designed an automatic revolver for Webley, wrote that the .44-40 was the best handgun "stopper" that he saw in use along the NW Frontier of what is now Pakistan. But I don't know if he saw the .45 Colt results often.

 

[Texas Star]

I was looking for an Enfield or Webley. Ended up with the Webley Mark III commercial/police (target grips and no lanyard ring), .38 S&W c.1927.
It is fun to shoot. I used the Remington ammo along with Privi Partisan. Now I just reload for it
It is a pop, pop, but I wouldn't want to catch them.
Some pics, guys.

When you remove the grip plates, do you see a small steel butt frame? I think they used the same frame for the pocket model as for those MK III .38's with longer barrels. That's probably just a full service size grip, not for target use.

But your gun is rare here, and I've never had the chance to
see one with the grips off.

How does your gun shoot? With the lighter bullets, it probably doesn't shoot to the sights, as it might with 200 grain loads like the old Super Police that Western once made here.

 

[M1A]

I will take some gripless pics & post.
It is stamped 38 not 38/200.
The seller called the grips target as well as folks on another forum.
Not much specific info on the Mark III.
I load 158 gr .358 SWC from Missouri Bullet with W231 or Titegroup.
Barrel slugs at .357 to the lands.
Groups well, but just a bit right.

 

[les.b]

Les-

Thanks for the Like.

BTW, you wrote earlier that the Webley was a "NO. 4." You may be thinking of the No. 4 .303 rifle! The Webley revolver was a MK IV .38 numbered in their commercial series, not the military series, in which the MK IV is a .455.

If I had the money, I'd be after the best Webley, in my view. That was the Wilkinson-Webley .455, Model 1911. It looks like the slightly later MK VI military model, but has a nice bright blue finish, hand-honed action, and walnut grips with a gold oval for the owner's initials. Model 1905 is almost identical, but the rifling varies. The Model WG, in several variations from 1889-at least 1896, is also a beautifully made gun, but the frame is longer than needed and the later guns are safer with smokeless ammo.

Texas Star:

You are absolutely right! I was wrong, it was a MK IV and not a No 4! By the way, I do still have another old Webley, a WWI era MK VI. It is in great shape, but unfortunately, someone "shaved" the back of the cylinder so that .45 ACP cartridges in moon clips can be used, or it can be loaded with .45 Auto Rims. Other than that, it has not been touched. I will try to get photos of both this and the MK IV soon and post them. I reload the Auto Rim for my Colt 1917, so that is what I use in the Webley. I load these at moderate velocities, so as not to strain the old girls.

 

[Texas Star]

Les-

If it may make you feel better, there was a No. 4 Webley-Pryse .476. I think it was short-lived, as the Webley-Kaufman with the early stirrup lock arrived soon after and quickly became the normal system.

 

[M1A]

Darn Tex, you're right again.
I take the stocks off for cleaning, but was not sure until I took a specific look.
The OP and others need to post some pics.
Les, I wanted a MK VI too, but shaved cylinders seemed to be the norm.

 

[dabney]

Dabney-

The Enfield .476 was not a top-break gun. It used a unique ejection system deigned by an American named Jones. The Enfield was not well liked, and was replaced after just seven or so years by the Webley MK I. The Enfields were sent to Canada, where the Mounties also disliked them.

Officers then bought their own swords and pistols, and I doubt that many preferred the Enfield. The .476 cartridge was pretty good at close ranges, a 265 grain or a 288 grain bullet at some 700 fps. Better than the later .455 MK II, but almost the same as the .455 MK I. The .455 Colt is basically the MK I.

Officers in the Second Zulu War of 1879 would probably have used Adams or Tranter arms, or Colts. The Enfield didn't even appear until about 1882-1883.

If you read, "King Solomon's Mines", by Sir Henry Rider Haggard, you'll see that he provided Colt SAA .45 revolvers for his heroes. That book was written in 1883, by a veteran of the Zulu war. In fact, his Kukuana fictional tribe had many resemblances to Zulu customs.

I've read that in the 1880s, the .44-40 and .45 Colt were so popular among officers that the British Army in India stocked ammo for both. Lt. Col. Vincent Fosbery, VC, who later designed an automatic revolver for Webley, wrote that the .44-40 was the best handgun "stopper" that he saw in use along the NW Frontier of what is now Pakistan. But I don't know if he saw the .45 Colt results often.

Texas, the Enfield MK I and II guns are hinged (break-top) revolvers, that is, the barrel assembly breaks for reloading, just like the break top Enfield/Webley shooters of WW2 fame. Please observe photos of these Enfield's for verification. You are right about the Zulu War, in regards to Tranter/Adams being packed in Zulu-land, and I thank you very much! From August 1880 thru January 1885, the Enfield .476 would engage in the following battles:
1-Battle of Kanahar (9-1-1880) Muslims in Egypt
2-Battle of Laing's Nek (1-28-1881) Boer S. Africa
3-Battle of Schuinshoogte (2-8-1881) Boer Conflict
4-Battle of Majuba Hill (2-27-81) Boer Conflict
5-Battle of Tel al-Kebir (1882) Muslim trouble
6-Battle of El Teb (2-4-1884) Muslim trouble
7-Battle of Tamai (3-13-1884) Muslim trouble
8-Battle of Khartoum (1-26-1885)

I'm sure I may have missed a battle during the time period of the Enfield .476 (1880-89), but you can see its baptism was in blood. Sure, some Brit officers did not care for the Enfield during that time, but this would be so later with the Webley offering and even later with the Enfield No. 2 MK I* guns of WW2. I would have preferred a Schofield or Colt SAA at that time too. Most did not, whether lack of personal funds or loyalty to a home built firearm. The Enfield MK I and II had a complicated action that required frequent manintenance, if used very much. The charge of Muslims at the Battle of Khartoum, I can visualize that Brit Officer, standing tall, in the face of the on-coming terror!

M1- I promise to post photos of my Enfield children ASAP. I'm just happy to find interested people at this great forum who would want to see pics of the Brit Enfield of WW 2 fame. Hopefully this evening, if my photographer (son, Colt) shows up, I'll get those photos out. And I thank everyone so very much cause I'm still a student of firearms history and love being corrected, when needed. Its the only way to grow in knowledge, to receive a rebuke and profit from it.

David

 

[dabney]

Gents, here are my bonafides. Even threw in a couple of .380-200 Webley MK IV's to show the resemblance. All of these Enfield's are RSAF manufacture, dating from 1939 to 1945. I've never been able to capture an Albion Enfield or one of the rare Australian (HAC) Models. These war veterans were not as glamorous as our S&W or Colt revolvers of the same time period. I take great pride in our (USA) firearms manufacture might but still honor what our allies packed at the same time. I love shooting an Enfield with current ammo available. I procured a few rounds of surplus ammo a while back and used it for nice Sunday afternoons plinking. Wouldn't make a bad house gun, just get use to the unique action, DAO, that most No. 2's have. You may be a fortunate owner of an Enfield that never got the "FTR" business (Factory Through Repair DAO) and retains the single-action feature. These are older, pre-war samples that escaped the trip back to the factory for conversion. Thanks again!

David

 

[M1A]

The pics are certainly worth the wait. Great collection. Nicely photographed too. The kind of revolvers that got me looking and obtaining my one and only.
Thanks for the look, Dabney

 

[les.b]

David, Texas Star, M1A, and fellow forum members, I had to work today, but managed to get a quick shot of my Webley MK VI. You can probably see where they cut the cylinder serial number in half when they shaved the cylinder. I'm not complaining too much, as the ability to shoot .45 acp and .45 Auto Rim is not that bad. Back when they were doing this, these were probably a dime a dozen. I did some research, and if I remember correctly, the Webley cartridge was supposed to operate at a lower pressure. Since I reload, I have always shot mild loading a in this revolver in deference to her age and possible older metallurgical condition. It has a mirror bore, so I presume that if it was shot back in the old days with corrosive ammo, it was well taken care of.




David, I am happy to see your collection!!! Great stuff, and good photos also!!! If I were you, I would consider reloading for yours as well. I load for about 20 different cartridges, and once you have the equipment, you can avoid ammo shortages, and the lack of some of the more obscure cartridges in the retail marketplace. I use the Auto Rim cartridge in my Colt 1917 as well. The brass seems to last forever with the mild loads I use.

 

[Texas Star]

Les-

Nice pic. One of those was my first handgun, when I was 13. My mother had to sign the paperwork, of course.

 

[Cyrano]

I only have two: a Webley Mk I, still in .455 caliber. I have two boxes of ammo (mostly fired cartridges now) and I reload for it. Great old Hand Cannon. Next a pre WWII Enfield MK II, which still has the single action capability. I's dated 1936. The holster is an early one, too. although there was a still earlier holster with a much longer drop down.

 

[les.b]

I dug up my only other Webley, a MK IV of I believe recent vintage, and apparently imported from the Israelis. I photographed the two together, with some British issue ".380" (.38 S&W) ammo, and some .45 acp on half moon clips, along with some of my hand loads in .45 Auto Rim. This exhausts my Webley collection.



Thanks to all who posted photos here. You have all revived my interest in these cool revolvers. It's starting to look a little like spring around here, and that means that I can resume shooting in relative comfort in my backyard "range".

 

[dabney]

Mr. Les, great looking Webley handguns you have sir. Many thanks for posting your Brit treasures so we could enjoy. I have always had a soft spot for these break-top revolvers of WW2 fame. I remember the tv character on "Magnum PI", Higgins, had a big-bore Webley Revolver he used for bad guys sometimes. I remember reading about his character on the show, a former Sgt.-Major in the British Army, turned private investigator as the background bio. Great show, with great guns on display.

The Enfield No. 2 MK I* has a small background in several movies and a few tv programs from past days. I remember seeing one used as a murder weapon in the 1980's tv program of "Columbo" with Robert Vaughn playing the bad guy part and using the Enfield to commit mayhem. The Enfield had a larger role in the first 1965 movie, "Flight of the Phoenix", starring James Stewart, who used it to put a "lame" camel out of misery. The Enfield is a British made firearm, that was used against a mighty adversary in WW2, the German soldier. Used by many former colonial home defense forces after the war, even up to the 70's, I've read. The ,380 Webley MK IV has its own great historical background and was still being manufactured up unto recent times. Several years ago, I purchased the "book" on the .380 Enfield No. 2 Revolver by Mark Stamps and Ian Skennerton. This book would enlightened me considerably on this firearm of great interest to me. The ins and outs of manufacture, names, places, any and all data of interest to the Enfield enthusiast, is covered in this book. Still available on Amazon for anyone interested in Enfields. Plinking away on those lazy Sunday afternoons after Church is wonderful "tonic" for relaxation for myself. The gun has so much history to it and, as mentioned before, doesn't make a bad house gun for no good two-legged varmints, up to bad-doing! I'm so thankful to find friends of the Enfield here at this forum.

David

 

[les.b]

David:

I have to admit that my collection of Webley's is limited to the two you see here, but as I said in post #4 above, an earlier Webley MK IV was one of my first handguns when I was very young. Seeing the posts of you and Texas Star, M1A, Cyrano and others has awakened my interest. I think that I will get that book that you mentioned, and read up a little on these most interesting British firearms. When I was a kid, I read all of the Sherlock Holmes stories, and was always fascinated by the Victorian era, Scotland Yard, and so forth. As an adult I traveled to (among many countries) England, where I obtained a graduate degree at Leicester University. One of my classmates was a senior officer at the London Metropolitan Police ... Scotland Yard, and I have had the great opportunity to vist there and dine in Peeler's Lounge, and tour the Black Museum. I am still very much interested in English history, and these firearms evoke images of past British glory. Thanks again for starting this thread... I hope that it stays alive for awhile, and others share some of their Enfields and Webley's with us.

Regards...Les

 

[2152hq]

The Webley MkIII 38 was originaly considered for Brit military use as a possible replacement for the .455 Webley MkVI.
The Commission looking for a replacement in the years after WW1 liked the light weight MkIII and being from the favored Webley company, it was not much of a battle for first place.
Some design details were recommended to the MkIII before acceptance.

What the Brit Gov't did then was to take Webleys MkIII and the design changes and give them to their RSAF Enfield facility.
There they came up with their 'own design' for an issue 38cal sidearm,,the 'Enfield No2MkI' ,obviously heavily based on Webleys guns and designs.
The 'Enfield No2MkI was accepted by the Gov't.
Webley cried foul.
War broke out and the Gov't needed more handguns than they themselves could mfgr. So they let out contracts to Webley for their '38cal MkIV' revolver,, the almost was standard issue revolver.
The Webley MkIV38 became secondardy issue but great numbers were made.
Webley marked (most of their) MkIV 38 revolvers made during WW2 as 'War Finish'. A proud company,,as if to say we can and do much better than this.

Webley had a lawsuit against the gov't over the whole 'you stole our idea' thing. It was settled some years later with a payment made to the Webley company IIRC.

 

[M1A]

Thank you 2152. I will add that info to my binder. I get a bit here a sentence there. Never found any lengthy discussion of the Mark III, but it all adds up.
I may have enough to write my own paragraph.
Great thread.

 

[dabney]

In years gone by, I was the Chief of Police in a small mill town here in Georgia. This would be the high point of my LE career, in those days in Bibb City. This town was composed mainly of mill workers and their families. I was honored to serve those wonderful people as their Chief, and would spend the best years of my life as their servant. This small, quaint city was very similar to the make-believe town of Mayberry on the "Andy Griffin Show" that still airs. There was an elderly, retired mill hand who lived there, that was also a WW2 vet. This gentleman was part of a community of people that loved this nation and championed the "American Way" every day that they lived. I come to tears remembering those God-fearing, Christ-loving people. Many had come from outside the immediate area, around Dothan, Eufaula, Auburn, and Pittsview Alabama during the "depression" of the 1930's. Many of the citizens that composed Bibb City were elderly and had already retired. This was during the early 1980's, and the gent mentioned earlier, and I, became good friends during my tenure there. He protected his home with but two firearms, an M-1 Carbine, manufactured by Winchester, and a British Enfield No. 2 MK I* Model. Being a WW2 vet, he had a warm spot for both of his guns, He had packed the M-1 during the War, and was given this Enfield .380 by a British Officer. A man that he soldiered along side while stationed in England and became close friends with. My friend told me that he had managed to get this Enfield back home in stealth. It was a "special" firearm near and dear to him in many ways. I would sometimes go to his house and pick him and his Enfield up, together, in the squad car, we all went to the river bank (Chattahoochee) and cap off a few rounds with that break-top Brit for a little plinking fun down on the river. I let him shoot my Colt Official Police (duty arm) and I got to shoot his treasure. This is where my love for the Enfield first developed. Each time I get my Enfields out for cleaning, I think of my elderly friend from a special time period in my life. All I can say about this is, What a man! What a gun! No longer present in this world, but always residing within my heart. My "special" Enfield story and I hope you enjoyed it.

David

 

[les.b]

Wow, David, that is a great story, and the sort of story that was probably once much more common than today. I remember my dad telling me, when I was just a youngster, that the world was "going to **** in a handbasket ". Although I would dearly love to have him back with me today, (he passed in 1972), I don't know what he would make of our society that has evolved in the 44 years since I lost him. Stories like that, and men like you and your friend are becoming rarer every day.

Thanks again for sharing, and I hope that others share stories and photos of their Enfields and Webleys with us.

 

[Texas Star]

Some minor points...

First, it was the improved MK IV .38 that Webley submitted to the govt. , not the MK III from which the new gun was developed.

Next, a post above said that Kandahar is in Egypt. It's in Afghanistan, and is in fact where Lt. Col. Vincent Fosbery, VC earned his Victoria Cross for gallantry.

I am a little puzzled at the flat military finish on Les's MK. IV .38 with four-inch barrel. Usually, guns with that barrel length with that late hammer, have the normal commercial blue finish. If this is an Israeli gun, maybe they specified that finish or it may be refinished. Note that some postwar MK IV .38's for the Singapore police were fitted with a crossbolt safety.

Finally, I really, really wish that anyone interested in this subject or in handguns in general, would buy Geoffrey Boothroyd's, "The Handgun", Crown Publishers, about 1970. It'll probably be the best investment that you ever make in a book on handgun history. Elmer Keith's, "Sixguns", revised 1961 edition, should be your second gun book, before you buy specialized books on S&W's.

I like Webley and the firm had a rich history. I think their last revolvers were made for Navy Arms about 1975. They came in a distinctive box. Shotgun production may have continued longer.

 

[2152hq]

Some minor points...

First, it was the improved MK IV .38 that Webley submitted to the govt. , not the MK III from which the new gun was developed.

That would be the MkIII with the 'requested design changes'.

 

[dabney]

Per Stamps/Skennerton Book on the ".380 Enfield No. 2 Revolver" on page 9 (paperback edition):

"WEBLEY & SCOTT SUBMITTED A SAMPLE .38 REVOLVER TO THE WAR OFFICE ON JULY 19, 1921, ALONG WITH 200-ROUNDS OF .38 S&W AMMUNITION; IT WAS A (MODIFIED) MARK III HINGED FRAME, SELF EJECTING POCKET MODEL.....

This was the first submission and a few months later W&S would submit the "new" MK IV Model. From the above book on the same page number;

A FURTHER SAMPLE, A NEW MARK IV MODEL OF THE WEBLEY .38 REVOLVER, WAS FORWARDED IN JANUARY 1922 AND TESTS WERE PERFORMED AT THE SMALL ARMS SCHOOL, HYTHE.

The MK III .380 Webley, with some unidentified mods, went first followed closely by the MK IV. From Stamps/Skennerton the Enfield No. 2 .380 was most definitely influenced by the MK IV Webley Model. Later, as pointed out by post author, a court of British Law ruled in favor of W&S and a small award was rendered to W&S. For me, as a collector of both Brit firearms, the history is very interesting. So is my friends posts here on this highly favored British revolver. Each time someone posts on this subject matter, I profit in knowledge greatly. Thanks to all!

David

 

[Andrew2105]

Some minor points...

Snipped!
"Finally, I really, really wish that anyone interested in this subject or in handguns in general, would buy Geoffrey Boothroyd's, "The Handgun", Crown Publishers, about 1970. It'll probably be the best investment that you ever make in a book on handgun history. Elmer Keith's, "Sixguns", revised 1961 edition, should be your second gun book, before you buy specialized books on S&W's."

From me.
Mr Boothroyd (if I'm not mistaken) was an advisor to Ian Flemming for firearms knowledge. In "From Russia With Love" the armorer who provided the Walther PPK to replace "that Damned Beretta" was identified as Boothroyd. In subsequent movies the more familliar "Q" character appeared.

Thread Drift..Sorry.

 

[les.b]

Some minor points...

Snipped!
"Finally, I really, really wish that anyone interested in this subject or in handguns in general, would buy Geoffrey Boothroyd's, "The Handgun", Crown Publishers, about 1970. It'll probably be the best investment that you ever make in a book on handgun history. Elmer Keith's, "Sixguns", revised 1961 edition, should be your second gun book, before you buy specialized books on S&W's."

From me.
Mr Boothroyd (if I'm not mistaken) was an advisor to Ian Flemming for firearms knowledge. In "From Russia With Love" the armorer who provided the Walther PPK to replace "that Damned Beretta" was identified as Boothroyd. In subsequent movies the more familliar "Q" character appeared.

Thread Drift..Sorry.

I have a great Biography of Fleming...just don't have it with me now. I believe that you are correct about the Boothroyd in the James Bond book "armorer" being based on the real Boothroyd. I seem to remember that Boothroyd, who was a real expert on firearms, was an admirer of the first Bond books, but was appalled that Fleming had Bond armed with a .25 automatic. He contacted Fleming and the two corresponded and may have met in person. Fleming was so impressed by Boothroyd, that he incorporated him into... and this is where I think you may be wrong... I believe the sixth Bond book, which was Dr. No, if I remember correctly. The scene is then fairly accurately incorporated into the movie Dr. No. Boothroyd, in the book issues both the famous Walther PPK, but the Smith and Wesson Centennial AirWeight, .38 S&W Special. It was only used in this one movie, and was lost on Crab Key, never to appear again. I think the book came out about 1958.

Here is Bond getting his Walther in Dr. No:

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU98uP7pXA8[/ame]

And here's the real Boothroyd in a cool video:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VuO34MDezzU&ebc=ANyPxKqBYhblrQLw33gadpvouqEGfpYRfpPuvDTrSgTZ46EEKYtLBDlPdCXmIBFqx2M1SWbmIOPiW1MHZYjRr0frAyXZ2JDWxA[/ame]

I echo the previous posters apologies to the OP for thread drift.