A challenging second model Ladysmith

[DCWilson]

This old .22 Hand Ejector (2nd Model No. 9646, shipped late 1909) came to me as a barreled frame and a sack of parts. It sounds as though the gun may have been in that condition for 20 years or more. It was known to have a broken cylinder stop, and I thought that was the only issue. But when I cleaned all the parts and gave everything a trial reeassembly, my heart sank. There is more wrong than the missing part.

My heart rises and sinks pretty much in sync with the amount of sleep or caffeine I have had. Early in the first morning after a long night cleaning gunk and corrosion off the frame, I wondered why I had bought this pig in a poke. But as the day wore on, I realized that the gun had good bones and deserved to be fixed. The fact is that any Ladysmith with an unbulged barrel and intact forcing cone is a treasure; I resolved to make this one right.

There are a couple of cosmetic problems to be managed: I'm calling the nickel finish about 80%, and there is some surface corrosion where the nickel has worn away; the metal is a little rough but I see no serious pitting. The tip of the cylinder release plunger was lost and has been replaced by a brass tip that drifted in from someplace else.

The real challenges are inside.

Over on the right side you can see the void where the cylinder stop used to be. The stud on which the cylinder stop pivoted is also missing. But the real problem is that there is some horrible grinding conflict inside the lockwork. I have rotated the sideplate down so you can see the area where the trigger return spring (the flat spring that winds through the action like a snake) has actually worn away some of the sideplate metal. You can see where the bottom half of the hammer stud bushing in the sideplate has been worn off. Holy smokes! I am half afraid that a previous owner who attempted a repair filed the back of the sideplate in a mistaken attempt to correct the sliding contact problem.

I am still working on a diagnosis of everything that is wrong with the way the action fits, but one of the problems is that the trigger wobbles on its stud. As you pull the trigger, there is a sideways moment to the force that pushes the spring against the sideplate. But something else is wrong, too. The sideplate cannot even be fully seated without undue pressure, and it seems to be contacting the lockwork both on the hand and the portion of the trigger return spring behind the hand. I am wondering if those are replacement parts that were never properly fitted to the action. Certainly the trigger return spring in this gun does not duplicate the exact shape of the return springs in other Ladysmiths I know -- another 2nd Model and a 1st. Could this be a spring from an early I-frame? Would an I-frame trigger return spring even fit in an M-frame lockwork chamber?

My other 2nd Model Ladysmith is in much better shape, and I will take it apart to mike all the dimensions and see what is too big in this new one. I don't think I have a bent or badly milled frame; the hammer stud is not bent. If you follow the motion of the lockwork with the sideplate off, there are no obvious incorrect motions, and it looks as though the pieces all stay in the plane they are supposed to occupy when moving. This has to be a solvable problem with an achievable fix. At the moment, I am thinking a hand issue is expressing itself in the trigger return spring.

I think I will have to create a new trigger stop from a small piece of steel. Ed Cornett confirmed my impression that a Dremel tool and some patience could do the job.

I'll report back as I make progress in my repairs. This process may take a while in light of all the other fish I am frying at the same time.

 

[opoefc]

I think the problem relates to the trigger return spring. It's not from a Ladysmith, and may be home made. The trigger spring has to seat above that stud in the frame behind the back of the trigger bow. Otherwise it will stick out too far and rub on the side plate. Take your Dremel tool and make a relief cut in the trigger spring just over the stud, so it can clear the stud, and if that's the cause of the binding , it will stop. Also the trigger stud seems excessively worn. It may need a replacement, which is not hard to make. Good Luck. Ed.

 

[DCWilson]

Thanks, Ed. I appreciate the insight and encouragement.

 

[Hondo44]

David,
Looks like a worthwhile project. Hang in there, I'm sure you'll be able to bring it back to life. Once you get the side plate off of your 'good' example, it'll probably be all you need to see to make it right. I'm sure you have the list of parts guys if you decide to try looking for a cyl stop. Popperts would be my 1st call, he even had triple lock parts for me.

A thought; once you get the hammer pin hole 'bushing' in the sideplate flat and square again, some shims (perhaps soldered in place) might work to properly space the hammer to the sideplate.

I'll be right there with you vicariously sharing your satisfaction as you resurrect it. Thanks for a very interesting post.

 

[trikster]

Darn right this is an interesting post... Subscribed and good luck with the restoration.

 

[H Richard]

Will be watching with interest as you progress through your restoration.

 

[TMartin]

2nd Model LadySmith

Does anyone have any idea of the value of this gun?
The Dogs
If you have seen one like it, or have any knowledge of engraved LadySmiths Please let me Know.
Thomas Martin
[email protected]

 

[Plottman Pops]

TMartin, First off welcome to the form. You would probably get better results starting a new thread with your question.

 

[DCWilson]

An update and a request

First, the request. Could somebody take a look at the link where TMartin posted his photos and give him some advice about the engraving on his Ladysmith? I was the one who encouraged him to post the gun so he could seek better informed advice than what I could give him. In private correspondence I suggested the engraving looked a little like the least ornate level of factory engraving you could get in the early 1900s, but I also thought it might be aftermarket engraving as well. In that case, both the gun's engraving and the incised pearls were probably part of a package that made this gun a really nice Christmas present in 1906.

Second, an update on the gun with which I started this thread. I won't post photos yet, but I did manage to take care of the trigger return spring/sideplate conflict. Turns out whoever took the gun apart decades ago to try to fix it had welded a little piece of steel at the tip of the trigger return spring so that the flying arm of the hand could trap it. This actually created a problem, because that arm needs to fold up enough to bypass the trigger-stud housing on the inside of the sideplate. You can see the scuffs and wear on the sideplate near the trigger-stud receptacle in the photo above. You can also see that in the original bad repair, the arm of the hand is pushed so wide that it almost touches the trigger stud. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

So I cut off the lower tip of the welded on piece of metal and stoned a tiny notch into it for the tip of the flying arm to lodge in. Success! Now the small arm of the hand no longer contacts fixed metal as it moves, and no force is put into the trigger spring that will making it bow into the sideplate.

The spring needs re-arcing slightly, as the configuration it is in now doesn't have quite enough oomph to reset the trigger completely when it is released. I'll do that the next time out.

Onward and upward!