A few questions for the old school bullseye shooters.

[BE Mike]

There is an old paperback book, which was published by Gil Hebard, called "The Pistol Shooter's Treasury" There is a photo of Shockey and an article. I started out in bullseye pistol shooting in 1971. I worked my way from Marksman to Master. I also am a Distinguished Pistol Shot badge holder. I have a couple of Jim Clark, Sr. pistols. I have owned a couple of Tony Kidd pistols. I had a well-used Giles wad gun pass through my hands. It was hard to tell just how many thousands of rounds had been fired through it. Before I traded it off, I tested it on a Ransom Rest at 50 yards. It produced a 2" ten shot group on the first attempt. If I could have afforded a new one, I'd have bought a Giles. I think he was the best of the best. Having said that $425 for a used Shockey is a steal.

 

[gnystrom]

Back in the day a fellow competitor told me "your elbow is pointed so the oil will run off".

 

[4barrel]

The things they do to lighten the slides for a light target load.

 

[model3sw]

PS: I bought my first Ransom Rest because I had a hard time believing 7/8" groups at 50 yards on his Kit Guns. Darn if it doesn't do it ... ALL THE TIME. Only exception is if you're using bulk relaoded target ammo. With my own loads, per Giles specs and H&G Mold 200 grain SWC, 3.6 to 3.9 gr. Bullseye ... EVERY time, without fail I can pull a 1+1/4" group or better. One time at 1+1/4" I used vise-grips to take the wobble out of deck rest (that I mounted the RR to) at the range. Vastly improved accuracy back to 1" or under on the Colt Kit guns.

 

[stu1ritter]

This is the test target from my Curtis built 1911. Ranson rest, 50 yards, full tilt ball ammo. If not for that first round flyer it would be 1" vertical.

Stu

 

[Professor Frink]

Alright, pics are up. Included a pic of the Mousetrap etc. have really enjoyed all the info and insight.

 

[Jebus35745]

Called a friend tonight and there was a Ray Shockey in Cleveland. He was a local bullseye shooter and tightened up he guns to shoot bullseye. He started working on others guns at night or weekends and did a great job for a reasonable price. Ron said his was tightened and the grip stippled and it was a tack driver. Larry

 

[824tsv]

I don't think anyone will dispute there is a Ray Shockey in Ohio and I'm sure he's quite talented in his own right.
Theres no doubt (to me anyway), O.P.'s pistol was built by Richard Shockey of Oklahoma who was one of the greats of the era.

 

[one eye joe]

Shockey is legendary as is Clark. Here in Florida, there was a native Floridian WWII Veteran from Odessa, Florida, named John Giles. Being "HE" was here, and " I " (plus all the guys in the FOPA were using Giles bulleye guns) was here ... I ended up with a few of each type of Giles customs.

Start with a 1948 Colt Super .38 converted to .38 Wadcutter, 2 Colt 1911 custom KIT-built Giles .45ACPs, a Model 70, 45ACP and a Colt 1911 custom KIT-built in .38 Mid-Range (not a .38 Super conversion but an actual Colt Kit in .38 Mid Range), then throw in a few High Standard .22 Military Giles, for good measure.

The oldest and the most "well used" Giles, including the 1948 Super converted to .38 Mid-Range, still puts holes in the paper exactly where you point it.

Oh, please don't tell any of my buddies in the S&WCA that I own a few C-O-L-T-S. Just between us here, ok ?

THAT'S A NICE BRACE OF PISTOLS YOU HAVE PUT TOGETHER. IT LOOKS LIKE ANY ONE OF THEM WILL ALL GET THE JOB DONE, IF YOU DO YOUR PART.....

 

[model3sw]

THAT'S A NICE BRACE OF PISTOLS YOU HAVE PUT TOGETHER. IT LOOKS LIKE ANY ONE OF THEM WILL ALL GET THE JOB DONE, IF YOU DO YOUR PART.....

Thank you. The Clark .38 Colt Kit (2 left photos) is not mine but rather another member's, The Giles .38 Colt Kit ( on the right) is mine, purchased from another member a few years back after searching for one a very long time.

 

[model3sw]

I don't think anyone will dispute there is a Ray Shockey in Ohio and I'm sure he's quite talented in his own right.
Theres no doubt (to me anyway), O.P.'s pistol was built by Richard Shockey of Oklahoma who was one of the greats of the era.

Explain further, please. I had no idea there were 2 Shockey 1911 builders.

 

[TAROMAN]

In my part of the world bullseye match guns were never stripped and cleaned. A drop lub on the barrel,slide rails, and occasionally a brush and patch though the bore.

Exactly what we were instructed to do when I shot on an Army team.

 

[4barrel]

The kit guns were sold to gunsmiths. Not to the public. Sorry about the rubbers. A shooters choice.

 

[Jebus35745]

Sal, look at my previous posts. Not sure how the Cleveland Shockey spelled his name. He was just a local back yard gunsmith that knew how to build a 1911. Remember seeing some Ruger Mk's done by him also. Larry

 

[keithherrington]

Here is a good description on properly lubricating a match 1911

Encyclopedia of Bullseye Pistol

 

[Old Corp]

I was a teen, working at the area's top LGS starting in 1974 and then off and on, depending upon school until 1980. The largest gun club and shooting facility in the area was very bullseye-oriented.
How well I recall my manager, a big bullseye shooter, mentoring others getting into the sport. Filling out orders for custom 1911's in .38 WC and .45, sending them snail-mail to Clark's Custom (Jim Clark) in Louisiana.
Ordering the large black bullseye pistol boxes from Pachmayr.
In-store discussions on the merits of Star reloading machines. Meeting at the aforementioned club to test your handloads in the club's Ransom Rest, as it was probably the only one in existence for over 100 miles.

The bullseye era seemed so nice and simple in my sepia-toned memories.

 

[iPac]

I love vintage guns that were tuned my master pistolsmiths. Those with such skill in their trade are few and far between now.

I would be tempted to buy ANY vintage handgun that was worked over by a real master.

My dream is to find a Jungkind tuned Python. Actually, any of the late greats I would love to find, Sadowski, Moran, Tedford, and even Glenn now.

 

[model3sw]

George Madore Accurized 1911

I always liked the Springfiled Armory 1911 NM series. Several years back one came to me from a fellow local club member with G.Madore on the slide and a most peculiar set up of a Red Dot sight mounted to the slide. Neither he nor I knew who G.Madore was, and, this was the first time I ever saw a scope mounted to the slide on a 1911. We both thought it was some sort of Rube Goldberg. At very least the SA 1911 was in near new condition. I figured, at worse case scenario, I'd buy another unblemished slide.

I was very curious so I researched George Madore, pistolsmith, on the then fledgling internet which not many people were attune to back then. George Madore is long gone now (RIP) but was a master pistolsmith. He specialized in accurizing 1911s but preferred Springfield Armory 1911.

Much to my surprise, it is a tack driver. In a Ransom Rest it hits paper on target, in tight groups, extremely well. In experimenting discovered it is a hard ball gun so my Giles Target loads are precisely on target but do not have enough powder to properly cycle the action.

Beefing up the powder a bit or just with straight out of the box factory pack standard .45 ACP ammo, it is amazingly accurate and cycles flawlessly.

Most of all ... the internal red dot sight mounted to the slide is not bothered in the least with the continual banging back and forth with the slide.

I find this amazing as in years past I had drilled and mounted the optics bridge to the frame on some. One other choice to mount a scope without drilling the frame was the old aluminum right grip with the overhead rail but this latter method eliminated the option of installing custom target stocks. No one had ever dared to mount a scope to the slide of a 1911 before this.

For someone looking to purchase a lesser appreciated, but very accurate customized 1911, don't overlook a G.MADORE (engraved on the slide). They seem to sell (without scope) for $1000 or under. I feel that the low price is because very few bullseye shooters know who G.Madore is (or was). To me, that's a super bargain for an accurized 1911 from a master pistolsmith.

 

[scooter123]

A tip on dis-assembly and re-assembly. Go online and look up the intructions for Field Stripping a S&W model 59. Use these same methods for taking down you 1911. Yeah, it is a real PITA just like it was on the model 50 but with some practice it is doable.

BTW, you will find that takedown requires using a "gunsmiths grip" to position the slide so that the slide stop can be removed and you then control that slide as you remove it from the pistol with the recoil spring compressed.

As for the barrel bushing, I would suggest going to the Brownells web site and ordering a new Ed Brown standard Barrel Bushing. Doing this get rid of those ugly pipe wrench marks. Note, no guarantee that the new bushing will fit but one can hope and they are relatively inexpensive.

As for that Mousetrap Spring Plug it's obvious the intent was to press the barrel upwards in the barrel bushing at lockup. While that may in theory produce a tiny bit more accuracy there are probably only 2 or 3 handgun shooters on the entire planet good enough to actually see that improvement. If you also get a new standard spring plug you'll change the takedown procedure from copying that for the model 59 to the classic old 1911 dis-assembly procedure.. Quite simply by replacing a couple of fairly inexpensive parts you'll have a 1911 that is still very accurate and much much easier to Field Strip. It will also be much closer to the original configuration.

Final note concerns the Mainspring Housing. Another part that is available from Brownells in either Flat or Humped configuration. While not true to the WWII configuration I strongly prefer a Flat Mainspring Housing so that is what I would select.

 

[BE Mike]

Madore was the pistolsmith for the U.S. Olympic Shooting team in the 80's, I believe. He was one of the best. Jack Maples made some very nice accurized 1911's back in the day.

 

[824tsv]

Explain further, please. I had no idea there were 2 Shockey 1911 builders.

Me either. I've never heard of Ray, but I'm not disputing that there is another gunsmith with the same last name as the other Forum member posted.