A question for the shotgunners here

[Jessie]

My friend is looking for a shotgun. He wants the ability to use 3" and/or 2 3/4" shells.
He found a Mossberg that's stamped 3" on the barrel.
He called Mossberg and they told him if its only stamped 3" then that's all you should use. To use both, it needs to be stamped 3" or 2 3/4".
My question is what is the difference in the chambers to make that a true statement?
I always figured that if its a 3" you can use 2 3/4" inch also.
Have I been figuring wrong?

 

[steveno]

is it a pump or semi-auto? if it is a pump you can use either shell length but a semi-auto might require the extra pressure to operate

 

[shaggist]

Tell him to take the model number, go to the Mossberg website, and look it up. He can find this information for himself if he will make a little effort.

 

[jscheck]

Tell him to get a Remington 870 "Super Magnum". Proven pump shotgun and handles 3 1/2" shells and smaller. Love mine!

 

[Jessie]

Tell him to take the model number, go to the Mossberg website, and look it up. He can find this information for himself if he will make a little effort.

I mentioned that he called the manufacturer( Mossberg) and that's what the rep told him.
It is a pump. The Pursuader

 

[alwslate]

Sounds like your friend talked to someone who didn't know the correct
answer and just tried to wing it rather than say those three little
words,"I don't know".

 

[Hapworth]

I mentioned that he called the manufacturer( Mossberg) and that's what the rep told him.
It is a pump. The Pursuader

I find company reps across all industries to be hit-and-miss in terms of their knowledge of the product line.

The Persuader is just a plain old (terrific) Mossberg 500. Whatever shell size is listed on the barrel, that's the max that can be used; 2-3/4 shells are fine in this shotgun.

 

[pawngal]

The Persuader is a Mossberg 500 model so no reason it can't shoot both 2 3/4 and 3 inch.

 

[Jessie]

Thanks for the replies everyone. That's what I thought also.
He probably talked to a paper pusher who gave him the "liability correct" answer.

 

[ErnieDeBord]

Just radom toughts here, Is he sure it don't say both 2 3/4 & 3 on it?, Says it a old one, is poss has a diff barrel on it? I would think the moss pump should handle either one, regards Ernie

 

[gman51]

I have seen 3" shot from a 2 3/4" gun but it was prone to jamming the action on a semi auto. I wouldn't suggest trying it.

 

[finesse_r]

My Mossberg pumps all eat anything I put in them and they spit out lead balls just like they are supposed to do. I rarely if ever use anything but 2 3/4" shells in my 12 Gage shotguns as they will get er done.

 

[da gimp]

IF his shotgun is a 3" gun... it absolutely can use 3" shot shells, the shorter 2 3/4" shells & the antique 2 9/16" or 2 1/2" shells also... it just cannot use the 3 1/2" shot shells that are widely available now... The only reason I mention the antique loads is that there is at least one importer bringing them in for use in the wonderful old antique double guns, though the prices I've seen on them are quite a bit higher than our ordinarily encountered 2 3/4" shells & 3" shells. I've been tempted to pick some up for an old JP Sauer & Sohn double sidelock of ours.

The Mossberg shotguns are considered to be of very good quality, a strong but no frills shotgun. If you want something with a lil more class... but not necessarily more strength in a pump bird gun.. buy an Ithaca 37... or a nice old Win model 12. or a model 42... or one of the older Rem pumps from the 30's & 40's...

 

[Rpg]

Mossberg 500's are light , inexpensive shotguns best used with modest loads.

My experience using the Mossberg 500 and its varients have shown me it isn't sturdy enough for sustained use of 3" mag shells ( unless you must, as in waterfowl hunting requiring steel shot).

Pieces break off, function is rough, iffy and prone to jamming with 3" shells.

That's OK: the Mossberg is a great backup for hunting (the gun you have on the floor of the truck for the guy who forgets his gun) but it's nobody's primary shotgun who knows what he's about.

That's still all OK, since you have no need for 3" mags in a sd shotgun:!!

At house ranges, light 1 ounce loads of 7 1/2 or 8 shot are devistating.

If you haven't shot living critters with a shotgun, you are woefully uninformed about the destructive power of a 2 3/4" 12 or 20 guage shotgun shell even in 'light' loads.

 

[kozmic]

I have a 500 Persuader. I routinely shoot 2-3/4" and 3" rounds through it. He will have no issues with either. It's a great platform for a HD gun.

 

[model70hunter]

Sort of the Model T of the shotgun world, cheap and affordable for the masses that don't want a Caddy.

Shotgun chambers have changed much since the old paper roll crimp shells.

The chamber is not quite precise like our rimless pistols where the casing needs to head space at the front of the chamber.

Shotshell chambers are more tapered. The old roll Crimp paper shells had very little shell side when fired. I have read shooting modern plastic shells in old guns creates a pressure spike when the longer sides of the plastic hull are actually laying in the bore. This also crimps the shot cup affecting patterns. One thing that improved patterns was back boring. This allows the shot to slowly compress to bore size. It also negates the pressure spike when using plastic hull in an old gun.

The real difference in 2 3/4 shells vs 3" may not even be 1/4". It does allow for a bit more powder and a larger shot payload.

Winchester slightly opened the ejection port and I believe moved the ejector back to make the Model 12 Heavy Duck out of a Model 12, it was made heavier for the 3" SUPER X load.

I have shot 3" shells in my Model 12 2 3/4" gun to see how it works. If one ejected stoutly the 3" would clear and load another. But once or twice was all I wanted to do in the lighter gun.

Several here have given the gospel, if it is a pump and says 3" it will fire the 2 3/4" and do it very well in the Mossberg.

When the 500 got no love and did not bring much trade in value I bought them cheap and made pistol grip guns. 18 1/4" bbl, paint the fore end black clean an lube. Doubled my investment every time.

And I always kept one in the truck for whatever and a rainy day back up.

One still finds a cheap one now and then.

Tell your bud to not fire a 3.5" shell in it. could be dangerous on both ends and in the middle.

 

[cmore]

The only reason I mention the antique loads is that there is at least one importer bringing them in for use in the wonderful old antique double guns, though the prices I've seen on them are quite a bit higher than our ordinarily encountered 2 3/4" shells & 3" shells. I've been tempted to pick some up for an old JP Sauer & Sohn double sidelock of ours.

Gimp, What brand are these and where can I get some?

 

[da gimp]

Gimp, What brand are these and where can I get some?

I googled a search 2 9/16" shotshells and got many sources..

then I searched again 2 1/2" shotshells & had good luck again.

One of which was Ballistic Products 1-888-273-5623.... they have a web site... I've never done any business with them at all. nor do I know anyone who has either. Moderators if this isn't allowed please delete for me.

 

[Bill Bates]

Gimp, What brand are these and where can I get some?

If you need 2 1/2 inch shells for an older gun try RSTShells or search for a dealer that sells Gamebore shells.

I have several old doubles with 2 1/2 inch chambers and have used both with good success. RST does low pressure loads which are a lot easier on 100 year old wood and metal.

 

[model70hunter]

Once at the Tulsa gun show I almost traded for a H&H side by Badminton 12 gauge. It was chambered for the 2.5" shell. I thought about perhaps having it opened but did think it safe nor prudent for value. At that time I had read about cutting hulls down to 2.5" to make reloads.

I was trying to do a package deal and also get his H&H .375 with the Mauser magnum action. If the show would have lasted one more day I could have got it done. He had a small shop in a small town out in the wilderness. He had taken them in trade and was not into them for much money. He said they had set one the shelf for several years as most there wanted a 25-06, '06 or a Remington 1100.

To show you how I was not yet a little smarter I forgot to get his shop info.

 

[2152hq]

Here's a link to the Mossberg site & their owners manual for the Model500 and it's variants:

http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/500-535ATS-835Ulti-Mag-505-590-en.pdf

In there you'll find the following (note the last entry re: Model 500):

"...835®Models are designated to fire 12 gauge 2-3/4", 3", or 3-1/2" factory loaded ammunition.
Do not fire slugs of any type (single projectile ammunition) through the overbored 835
Accu-Mag barrel. This barrel is designated to shoot lead or steel pellet shot loads only. Use
only 835 barrels designated specifically for slug shooting.

535™ Models are designed for factory loaded 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/2" shells and rifled
slugs.

590® Models handle 12 ga. 2-3/4" or 3" magnum shells.

500® and 505™ Models
are designed for 2-3/4" (2-1/2" .410 bore) and 3" magnum shells within gauge..."

>>

FWIW,,I wouldn't shoot 3" in a 2 3/4" chamber even a few times. There's just too much of the longer shell wall opening into the forcing cone ahead of the 2 3/4" chamber. That makes the wad & shot load squeeze through the reduced opening.
Forcing cones vary quite a bit in both length and angle (the older guns usually being the most abrupt and short).

Depending on the bbl wall thickness at that point, it could leave you with a bulged bbl in the very least. That's pretty much it for that bbl though some will pound them down and call it good,,not me.

Lengthening forcing cones is one way old guns with 'short chambers' (2 5/8, 2 9/16) are sometimes altered to take modern 2 3/4" cases. It allows the 1/16 to 1/8 inch of extra length of shell in these instances to unfold in a much less abrupt and gentle angled forcing cone.
You still have to keep breech pressures low and have to do some measuring to determine wether the bbl wall thickness is suitible at that point to take this less drastic alteration than lengthening the chamber to 2 3/4" which would also then require a new forcing cone ahead of that.
Most purists and collectors say simply leave them alone and make or buy the correct ammunition for the gun.

 

[model70hunter]

Here's a link to the Mossberg site & their owners manual for the Model500 and it's variants:

http://www.mossberg.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/500-535ATS-835Ulti-Mag-505-590-en.pdf

In there you'll find the following (note the last entry re: Model 500):

"...835®Models are designated to fire 12 gauge 2-3/4", 3", or 3-1/2" factory loaded ammunition.
Do not fire slugs of any type (single projectile ammunition) through the overbored 835
Accu-Mag barrel. This barrel is designated to shoot lead or steel pellet shot loads only. Use
only 835 barrels designated specifically for slug shooting.

535™ Models are designed for factory loaded 2-3/4", 3", and 3-1/2" shells and rifled
slugs.

590® Models handle 12 ga. 2-3/4" or 3" magnum shells.

500® and 505™ Models
are designed for 2-3/4" (2-1/2" .410 bore) and 3" magnum shells within gauge..."

>>

FWIW,,I wouldn't shoot 3" in a 2 3/4" chamber even a few times. There's just too much of the longer shell wall opening into the forcing cone ahead of the 2 3/4" chamber. That makes the wad & shot load squeeze through the reduced opening.
Forcing cones vary quite a bit in both length and angle (the older guns usually being the most abrupt and short).

Depending on the bbl wall thickness at that point, it could leave you with a bulged bbl in the very least. That's pretty much it for that bbl though some will pound them down and call it good,,not me.

Lengthening forcing cones is one way old guns with 'short chambers' (2 5/8, 2 9/16) are sometimes altered to take modern 2 3/4" cases. It allows the 1/16 to 1/8 inch of extra length of shell in these instances to unfold in a much less abrupt and gentle angled forcing cone.
You still have to keep breech pressures low and have to do some measuring to determine wether the bbl wall thickness is suitible at that point to take this less drastic alteration than lengthening the chamber to 2 3/4" which would also then require a new forcing cone ahead of that.
Most purists and collectors say simply leave them alone and make or buy the correct ammunition for the gun.

Like all you said. It rings true with my thoughts.

That 3 in a 2 3/4 thing was when I was very young and still protected by the bullet proofness of said youth. I now highly advise against it.

 

[LostintheOzone]

If you need 2 1/2 inch shells for an older gun try RSTShells or search for a dealer that sells Gamebore shells.

I have several old doubles with 2 1/2 inch chambers and have used both with good success. RST does low pressure loads which are a lot easier on 100 year old wood and metal.

Very nice. Damascus barrels no less. I think I still have one British game gun in the safe somewhere. Not damascus though but I wish it were. I learned to reload 2.5". It isn't hard but a rolled hand crimp is desirable. Most just buy them.

To the OP. 2 3/4" will work in any 3" pump. You can't go the other way though.