A sad lesson

When you drive to the grocery store, there is no excuse for not wearing a NASCAR fireproof suit and helmet. :) After all, the odds of being in a car accident are dramatically higher than the odds of being the victim of a violent crime.

The crime rate in my suburb is so low that concealed carry here would be an act of stupidity/paranoia.

Until it isn't. There hadn't been a murder in my community in living memory until 3 years ago when there were two in quick succession, with one perpetrator taking refuge under my deck. I'd rather be diagnosed as paranoid by a non-psychiatrist than autopsied by a trained pathologist.
 
When you drive to the grocery store, there is no excuse for not wearing a NASCAR fireproof suit and helmet. :) After all, the odds of being in a car accident are dramatically higher than the odds of being the victim of a violent crime.

The crime rate in my suburb is so low that concealed carry here would be an act of stupidity/paranoia.

I just mowed my suburban lawn with a pistol in my pocket. Not out of fear, but because I can . . .
 
Ocean View is a cesspool. I think the latest is that 4 people have been charged with murder in this incident.

yeah, but according to the article the OP linked, second degree?! WT_ is that?! That's seriously wrong. The shooter needs to be taken out to a field and strung up for the crows.
 
When you drive to the grocery store, there is no excuse for not wearing a NASCAR fireproof suit and helmet. :) After all, the odds of being in a car accident are dramatically higher than the odds of being the victim of a violent crime.

The crime rate in my suburb is so low that concealed carry here would be an act of stupidity/paranoia.

JohnSW, Let me ask you a dumb question: Do you wear a seat belt when you drive to the grocery store?
 
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Violent crime in the little town I live in is almost non existent. But, spun out meth heads don't know or care about that. I am sure there are some of those around here and I know that the highway connects us to the rest of the world and can be used by those who might think this is a good place to rob or just plain old have a melt down.

How many times have you heard or read the words, I didn't think it would/could happen here? No one gets up thinking I will need a gun today. I really really doubt I will need a gun today, but, it would really, really, really suck to need one and not have it.

At one time the president wasn't paranoid about riding in an open limousine.
 
Doug M. wrote:
I seem to recall a line from a Clint Eastwood movie: “There's a time to shoot and a time to talk.”

The line is, "If you're going to talk, talk; if you're going to shoot, shoot." It from the movie The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and is delivered by Eli Wallach playing Tuco.
 
Rastoff wrote:
Why would you point a gun at someone if you weren't ready to press the trigger?

Most people aren't ready to press the trigger.

In the early days of World War II, the Army tried to get a handle on why it wasn't getting more effect from rifle fire. They took an infantry unit and put a tiny amount of colored grease in each barrel. After the action, they could tell whether the rifle had been fired by simply running a patch down the barrel. Only about half the rifles had even been fired. Other trials showed that among the half that did fire, about half of them shot up into the air thinking if they weren't trying to kill anyone, nobody would try to kill them. Bottom line is that only one in four trained soliders in combat were firing their rifles to effect.

The study was repeated in Korea and Vietnam with similar results.
 
Doug M. wrote:
After coming back, a man wearing a bandana pointed a gun at them, Jonathan Cain said. So Pete Cain took aim at the would-be robber and ordered him to put his gun on the ground.

This account does not make it clear whether the man with the bandana already had the gun out when Pete arrived back at his neighbors. The account also doesn't mention whether or not Pete or somebody else called the police when they became suspicious of criminal activity.

So, assuming that the account's silence means the police were not called, let's look at what happened:
  • Pete was with friends on premesis owned by a neighbor.
  • A woman apporaches the group.
  • Somehow by her actions, the woman makes Pete think some criminal activity is brewing.
  • Pete leaves the scene and returns to his home/office and retrieves a gun.
  • Pete does not call the police.
  • Pete, now armed, returns to the neighbor's.
  • A man wearing a bandana is present.
  • The man in the bandana may or may not have already produced a gun.
  • At some point, the man in the bandana does produce a gun.
  • Pete produces his gun and orders the man in the bandana to put his gun down.
Now we all know what happened next from the account, but the "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" crowd thinks Pete at this point should have shot the man in the bandana. But, had that happened, let's look at how it gets presented in court:

  • Pete and friends are unarmed
  • Woman approaches
  • Pete becomes suspicious of criminal activity
  • Pete leaves and retreives a gun
  • Pete does not call police
  • Pete returns to the neighbor
  • The man in the banana produces a gun
  • Pete shoots the man in the bandana.
By suspecting criminal activity, leaving the vicinity, not calling the police, arming himself, returning to the scene and then shooting first, Pete will be portrayed as having escalated the conflict.

As Doug M pointed out, once you think something suspicious is going on, leave the area and once you do, don't return.
 
Most people aren't ready to press the trigger.

In the early days of World War II, the Army tried to get a handle on why it wasn't getting more effect from rifle fire. They took an infantry unit and put a tiny amount of colored grease in each barrel. After the action, they could tell whether the rifle had been fired by simply running a patch down the barrel. Only about half the rifles had even been fired. Other trials showed that among the half that did fire, about half of them shot up into the air thinking if they weren't trying to kill anyone, nobody would try to kill them. Bottom line is that only one in four trained soliders in combat were firing their rifles to effect.

The study was repeated in Korea and Vietnam with similar results.

As far back as the civil war, muskets were retrieved at Gettysburg with as many as 10 balls in them. Soldiers were pretending to shoot...and reloading on top of the last round.

People discover that firing at another human being is easier said than done.
 
The advice from an old Texas Highway Patrolman, "some people just need killing and the state of Texas has given you that job. The state will even provide the ammo." Advice from 1959 and still valid.
 
This account does not make it clear whether the man with the bandana already had the gun out when Pete arrived back at his neighbors. The account also doesn't mention whether or not Pete or somebody else called the police when they became suspicious of criminal activity.



So, assuming that the account's silence means the police were not called, let's look at what happened:

  • Pete was with friends on premesis owned by a neighbor.
  • A woman apporaches the group.
  • Somehow by her actions, the woman makes Pete think some criminal activity is brewing.
  • Pete leaves the scene and returns to his home/office and retrieves a gun.
  • Pete does not call the police.
  • Pete, now armed, returns to the neighbor's.
  • A man wearing a bandana is present.
  • The man in the bandana may or may not have already produced a gun.
  • At some point, the man in the bandana does produce a gun.
  • Pete produces his gun and orders the man in the bandana to put his gun down.

Now we all know what happened next from the account, but the "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" crowd thinks Pete at this point should have shot the man in the bandana. But, had that happened, let's look at how it gets presented in court:



  • Pete and friends are unarmed
  • Woman approaches
  • Pete becomes suspicious of criminal activity
  • Pete leaves and retreives a gun
  • Pete does not call police
  • Pete returns to the neighbor
  • The man in the banana produces a gun
  • Pete shoots the man in the bandana.

By suspecting criminal activity, leaving the vicinity, not calling the police, arming himself, returning to the scene and then shooting first, Pete will be portrayed as having escalated the conflict.



As Doug M pointed out, once you think something suspicious is going on, leave the area and once you do, don't return.


I heartily agree.

My thought is that there are also some details that were not mentioned in the article. I won't speculate much further as I certainly wasn't there. In general, however, defending ones self against predators requires the judicious utilization of common sense and situational awareness in avoiding most encounters to begin with.


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Now we all know what happened next from the account, but the "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" crowd thinks Pete at this point should have shot the man in the bandana. But, had that happened, let's look at how it gets presented in court:

  • Pete and friends are unarmed
  • Woman approaches
  • Pete becomes suspicious of criminal activity
  • Pete leaves and retreives a gun
  • Pete does not call police
  • Pete returns to the neighbor
  • The man in the banana produces a gun
  • Pete shoots the man in the bandana.
By suspecting criminal activity, leaving the vicinity, not calling the police, arming himself, returning to the scene and then shooting first, Pete will be portrayed as having escalated the conflict.

As Doug M pointed out, once you think something suspicious is going on, leave the area and once you do, don't return.
I believe this is a good assessment.

If all we had known was that a bad guy had a gun and the good guy gave orders rather than shooting, he should have shot.

However, going to get a gun and then returning to the scene of potential danger is just not wise. Further, it could be seen as intent to do harm. Alas, in this case Pete will not face a jury.
 
When you drive to the grocery store, there is no excuse for not wearing a NASCAR fireproof suit and helmet. :) After all, the odds of being in a car accident are dramatically higher than the odds of being the victim of a violent crime.

The crime rate in my suburb is so low that concealed carry here would be an act of stupidity/paranoia.

WTH??? Did you mean to say this? Their may be many that live in your area that do carry and I can understand why you wont but think before you type bro. :eek:
 
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