ChattanoogaPhil
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Love the Trijicon chevron. If I ever go with magnification on an AR that's what it will be.
A sad truth I had to face this week (Optics)
- Thread starter CrustyShellback
- Start date
Optics
As an alternative to the Primary Arms scope, I've been looking at the Burris AR-332, with 3x magnification, plus the ballistic CQ reticle. It's priced lower than the Primary Arms, but has a 2-year warranty. The Burris is made in China though, so I'm concerned that it may be designed as a "disposable", like other Chinese products. Does anyone else have experience with the Burris?
As an alternative to the Primary Arms scope, I've been looking at the Burris AR-332, with 3x magnification, plus the ballistic CQ reticle. It's priced lower than the Primary Arms, but has a 2-year warranty. The Burris is made in China though, so I'm concerned that it may be designed as a "disposable", like other Chinese products. Does anyone else have experience with the Burris?
78Staff
Member
Is Primary Arms gear not also made in China?
gunny4053
US Veteran
OP
CrustyShellback
Member
(LONG POST WITH PICS)
Woo hoo! FedEx showed up with my optic while I was running errands, so it was waiting for me when I got home. Did the unboxing ceremony (lol) and then setup the optic on my M&P.
Mounts nice, solid and relatively quick even with the OEM mount. There's a trick to the Vortex and PA mounts. A flat head, or similar will tighten them sufficiently, just tightening from one side of the nut. I've done it enough, to know it works.
Really impressed so far. Packaging (which means nothing) is nice. Build quality is excellent. In fact, they have stepped it up a bit, since whenever my micro dot was made. This one and I understand its necessarily bigger, but it still feels more solid all the way around. Everything feels tighter, like specs and tolerances were tightened up, in QC.
I've included a couple pics looking thru the optic, though no justice done. It is bright and clear. I just now, double/triple checked. I can not tell ANY difference in light transmission, between the naked eye and looking thru the optic. No "dingy" look. The image is crisp and clear, all the way out to the edges.
The laser-etched reticle is sharp. At first, I looked thru it and was thinking, "Oh dang... tiny!". Few more minutes with it, and it suddenly seemed, just about right. They really did their homework on designing this reticle. It feels very intuitive.
Eye-relief isn't bad... right where they say, just over 3". You start moving back and you're going to deal with the parallax and limited sight picture. But, it feels natural to be in that position, on the firearm... so it suits me fine. My hunting scope is way worse.
The powered reticle isn't as bright as I expected. I expected eye-ball scorching, bright laser light at setting 1. Heck, couldn't even see 1, thru my camera. You can see it with the naked eye, no problem... but its not obtrusive and I could see using it that way. Don't know if I will.
Pulled the mount screws out, put some locktite on and mounted it the whole thing, rearward as it would go. Mounts up very stable and at least feels like it could take a real beating.
Not sure about the caps. They're a pain in the rear-end to open/close. With the fine focus on the rear, when switching shooters, its inconvenient. I only put it on the front, because of the killflash and its not easy access to wipe down the glass. This will keep more dirt/dust off it.
Bonus! The killflash, fits my Vortex Strikefire perfectly! The only weird thing, is with the killflash, it makes the A2 sight look like distortion in the glass itself, until you realize what it is.
Major props to PA for making this optic happen. If it returns the results I hope for at the range tomorrow... Hell, I'm thinking about getting the 2.5x also (see, its not mod'ing my guns, that's a weakness... its bleeping optics!). No, not really... there's a bunch of other optics on my radar, but I am serious about the weakness. I setup my guns, how I like them... then I leave them like that. If I were to have a burning desire to really mod this further... I'd get a new gun (another weakness).
Hope you enjoy the feedback. I'll be sure to post operational impressions after range day, which will include plenty of shooting out to 550 yds... and hopefully come back with some pics.
4x Prism and Killflash
Everything included in the box (minus the battery - and killflash)
Very rugged build. Same finish on other PA optics, which hold up well to dings and scratches.
Would like to see retaining straps for turret caps.
Fine focus for the ACSS
Solid mount and actually installs and uninstalls rather easily.
Killflash installed
Battery is included, CR2032. I am impressed with the quality/simplicity of this battery compartment. It isn't one of those ones, you'll unscrew the cap some day and pieces of it, will fall out (other than the battery).
Nice machining and build for Made in China...
Mounted view 1
Mounted view 2
Mounted view 3
Final build w/ 4x Prism ACSS
Oops... sight pictures.
Woo hoo! FedEx showed up with my optic while I was running errands, so it was waiting for me when I got home. Did the unboxing ceremony (lol) and then setup the optic on my M&P.
Mounts nice, solid and relatively quick even with the OEM mount. There's a trick to the Vortex and PA mounts. A flat head, or similar will tighten them sufficiently, just tightening from one side of the nut. I've done it enough, to know it works.
Really impressed so far. Packaging (which means nothing) is nice. Build quality is excellent. In fact, they have stepped it up a bit, since whenever my micro dot was made. This one and I understand its necessarily bigger, but it still feels more solid all the way around. Everything feels tighter, like specs and tolerances were tightened up, in QC.
I've included a couple pics looking thru the optic, though no justice done. It is bright and clear. I just now, double/triple checked. I can not tell ANY difference in light transmission, between the naked eye and looking thru the optic. No "dingy" look. The image is crisp and clear, all the way out to the edges.
The laser-etched reticle is sharp. At first, I looked thru it and was thinking, "Oh dang... tiny!". Few more minutes with it, and it suddenly seemed, just about right. They really did their homework on designing this reticle. It feels very intuitive.
Eye-relief isn't bad... right where they say, just over 3". You start moving back and you're going to deal with the parallax and limited sight picture. But, it feels natural to be in that position, on the firearm... so it suits me fine. My hunting scope is way worse.
The powered reticle isn't as bright as I expected. I expected eye-ball scorching, bright laser light at setting 1. Heck, couldn't even see 1, thru my camera. You can see it with the naked eye, no problem... but its not obtrusive and I could see using it that way. Don't know if I will.
Pulled the mount screws out, put some locktite on and mounted it the whole thing, rearward as it would go. Mounts up very stable and at least feels like it could take a real beating.
Not sure about the caps. They're a pain in the rear-end to open/close. With the fine focus on the rear, when switching shooters, its inconvenient. I only put it on the front, because of the killflash and its not easy access to wipe down the glass. This will keep more dirt/dust off it.
Bonus! The killflash, fits my Vortex Strikefire perfectly! The only weird thing, is with the killflash, it makes the A2 sight look like distortion in the glass itself, until you realize what it is.
Major props to PA for making this optic happen. If it returns the results I hope for at the range tomorrow... Hell, I'm thinking about getting the 2.5x also (see, its not mod'ing my guns, that's a weakness... its bleeping optics!). No, not really... there's a bunch of other optics on my radar, but I am serious about the weakness. I setup my guns, how I like them... then I leave them like that. If I were to have a burning desire to really mod this further... I'd get a new gun (another weakness).
Hope you enjoy the feedback. I'll be sure to post operational impressions after range day, which will include plenty of shooting out to 550 yds... and hopefully come back with some pics.
4x Prism and Killflash
Everything included in the box (minus the battery - and killflash)
Very rugged build. Same finish on other PA optics, which hold up well to dings and scratches.
Would like to see retaining straps for turret caps.
Fine focus for the ACSS
Solid mount and actually installs and uninstalls rather easily.
Killflash installed
Battery is included, CR2032. I am impressed with the quality/simplicity of this battery compartment. It isn't one of those ones, you'll unscrew the cap some day and pieces of it, will fall out (other than the battery).
Nice machining and build for Made in China...
Mounted view 1
Mounted view 2
Mounted view 3
Final build w/ 4x Prism ACSS
Oops... sight pictures.
OP
CrustyShellback
Member
Got the scope out to the range yesterday.
(1st pic zoomed 4x)
Was a long process, as it was packed. A bit upset, as last weekend one of the kids told me it was the best day to go. Ended up getting, pretty much stuck on a lane. Luckily, I got the last one, with shade.
This also means, zeroing is a pain in the ***, if you don't have a decent spotting scope (which I don't). You have to call for a line break, every time, walk down there, check your groups. I'm not a MOA shooter. Don't have any desire to be. My only interest is putting rounds on target... and if I have to shoot at something 1", to save my life.. well, I hope I get lucky. I'm more concerned with larger targets/things.
After a while, tiring of waiting between breaks and zeroing as well as I could at 50... I switched over to the last of the reactive targets I had. When I pulled up the optic, the first thing I noticed was the 8" target fit perfectly in the ACSS horseshoe. Was using a front rest and decided to just unload the last 3 magazines into it, as I wanted to move up to the hill. The only thing I'm lining up here, is the horseshoe around the target. Not really aiming at the center circle. Then it was on to the longer stuff.
The hill is stocked with an assortment of IPSC steel silhouettes. Found the 18" x 30" plate at 400, put the reticle there and *DING* first shot. Every magazine, at least 9/10 on target (I usually have a stupid trigger pull in there - which is why there's only 19 I think, on that 2nd target).
There wasn't any wind at this time, so it was literally center it on the instersect at 400 and you would get a hit. Same thing with shorter distances.
At the 550 yd range (the top ridge in the pics), As there isn't a 550 mark, it took a little bit of adjustment. But, following my shots, it was easy to adjust. The hill makes a very good backdrop. You see every miss.
As I was winding things down, the wind started to kick up a bit. I had also setup with 62gr and was now shooting 55gr (btw, I joined the Reloading Club today. RCBS single-stage ordered). So I started getting a little push on my rounds. I moved the POA to the furthest left edge of the 400 line and *DING*. Shot after shot.
The range finder appears accurate, as it said the 18" x 30" was at 400 (but I already knew that). I really like the ACSS design. Its just easy to use. Doesn't take a lot of brain power, to put a shot where you want it, with a little wind thrown in, for good measure. As for the illumination, as has often been said by those that have it... its not really needed, unless its getting dark. It showed up fine, on everything I was shooting at. The above targets, I was using it illuminated, not like it makes a big difference though.
When I first set up the optic, I used Locktite on the optic/mount screws. I did not use any on the rail mount. The Primary Arms (and Vortex,btw) can be sufficiently tightened, on one edge and be tight enough. There will be an initial settling in adjustment... but after I tightened them up, after about 100 rnds, it held rock solid. Any type of strong flat edge, can remove one of these and put them on, in a flash.
Once zero was set... at least for the rest of the rounds I put down range, zero never changed. I'd take it off and put it back on, but I don't have a need to and this is exactly the way I wanted this rifle setup.
I know some people take issue with the mid-magnification fixed optics. They don't think they stack up well for CQB and you know, inside of 50 yds... I would agree with you. This isn't the best optic for that. As someone else said, the ACOG style optics are a "jack of all trades, master of none". Though, I kind of disagree with that. For the SW United States, which is a LOT of flat, wide-open land, even when you get into the elevations, in some states. Ranges are often far greater than 100 yds. 300 - 500 is not uncommon. Out in areas like our BLM shooting area, as far as you can see. This type of optic and sighting system, is perfect.
Build quality, is excellent. I think this one is built a little better than my Micro Dot. Not a knock on the Micro... its just seems like they moved their QC up a notch. I'm not ever going to intentionally inflict damage on my optic, to see how tough it is... but, I can easily believe the torture tests, I've seen.
Glass clarity is awesome, all the way out to the edges. Very good light transmission. With both of those, I could not see any difference between naked eye viewing and looking thru the optic, besides the obvious magnification.
My only beef with the optic are the PA flip covers. My rear one, was a lot of wiggle in it, so you really have to pay attention getting it on and the front one is a PIA to close. I do like the knurled portion on the rear cap, so you can still easily use the fine adjust.
I think if you're looking for something that fits the bill, of being able to put rounds on target accurately, out to (in my case) 550 yds and don't want to spend the money on a Trijicon, you can't go wrong with this optic.
(1st pic zoomed 4x)
Was a long process, as it was packed. A bit upset, as last weekend one of the kids told me it was the best day to go. Ended up getting, pretty much stuck on a lane. Luckily, I got the last one, with shade.
This also means, zeroing is a pain in the ***, if you don't have a decent spotting scope (which I don't). You have to call for a line break, every time, walk down there, check your groups. I'm not a MOA shooter. Don't have any desire to be. My only interest is putting rounds on target... and if I have to shoot at something 1", to save my life.. well, I hope I get lucky. I'm more concerned with larger targets/things.
After a while, tiring of waiting between breaks and zeroing as well as I could at 50... I switched over to the last of the reactive targets I had. When I pulled up the optic, the first thing I noticed was the 8" target fit perfectly in the ACSS horseshoe. Was using a front rest and decided to just unload the last 3 magazines into it, as I wanted to move up to the hill. The only thing I'm lining up here, is the horseshoe around the target. Not really aiming at the center circle. Then it was on to the longer stuff.
The hill is stocked with an assortment of IPSC steel silhouettes. Found the 18" x 30" plate at 400, put the reticle there and *DING* first shot. Every magazine, at least 9/10 on target (I usually have a stupid trigger pull in there - which is why there's only 19 I think, on that 2nd target).
There wasn't any wind at this time, so it was literally center it on the instersect at 400 and you would get a hit. Same thing with shorter distances.
At the 550 yd range (the top ridge in the pics), As there isn't a 550 mark, it took a little bit of adjustment. But, following my shots, it was easy to adjust. The hill makes a very good backdrop. You see every miss.
As I was winding things down, the wind started to kick up a bit. I had also setup with 62gr and was now shooting 55gr (btw, I joined the Reloading Club today. RCBS single-stage ordered). So I started getting a little push on my rounds. I moved the POA to the furthest left edge of the 400 line and *DING*. Shot after shot.
The range finder appears accurate, as it said the 18" x 30" was at 400 (but I already knew that). I really like the ACSS design. Its just easy to use. Doesn't take a lot of brain power, to put a shot where you want it, with a little wind thrown in, for good measure. As for the illumination, as has often been said by those that have it... its not really needed, unless its getting dark. It showed up fine, on everything I was shooting at. The above targets, I was using it illuminated, not like it makes a big difference though.
When I first set up the optic, I used Locktite on the optic/mount screws. I did not use any on the rail mount. The Primary Arms (and Vortex,btw) can be sufficiently tightened, on one edge and be tight enough. There will be an initial settling in adjustment... but after I tightened them up, after about 100 rnds, it held rock solid. Any type of strong flat edge, can remove one of these and put them on, in a flash.
Once zero was set... at least for the rest of the rounds I put down range, zero never changed. I'd take it off and put it back on, but I don't have a need to and this is exactly the way I wanted this rifle setup.
I know some people take issue with the mid-magnification fixed optics. They don't think they stack up well for CQB and you know, inside of 50 yds... I would agree with you. This isn't the best optic for that. As someone else said, the ACOG style optics are a "jack of all trades, master of none". Though, I kind of disagree with that. For the SW United States, which is a LOT of flat, wide-open land, even when you get into the elevations, in some states. Ranges are often far greater than 100 yds. 300 - 500 is not uncommon. Out in areas like our BLM shooting area, as far as you can see. This type of optic and sighting system, is perfect.
Build quality, is excellent. I think this one is built a little better than my Micro Dot. Not a knock on the Micro... its just seems like they moved their QC up a notch. I'm not ever going to intentionally inflict damage on my optic, to see how tough it is... but, I can easily believe the torture tests, I've seen.
Glass clarity is awesome, all the way out to the edges. Very good light transmission. With both of those, I could not see any difference between naked eye viewing and looking thru the optic, besides the obvious magnification.
My only beef with the optic are the PA flip covers. My rear one, was a lot of wiggle in it, so you really have to pay attention getting it on and the front one is a PIA to close. I do like the knurled portion on the rear cap, so you can still easily use the fine adjust.
I think if you're looking for something that fits the bill, of being able to put rounds on target accurately, out to (in my case) 550 yds and don't want to spend the money on a Trijicon, you can't go wrong with this optic.
Last edited:
Rastoff
US Veteran
Nice review.
What range is that?
What range is that?
ChattanoogaPhil
Member
- Joined
- Oct 18, 2009
- Messages
- 14,601
- Reaction score
- 20,622
Great review. Looks real good on the rifle too. Nice to hear the glass doesn't suffer the same dingy look like the one I got years ago.
"Ding" oh man... nothing like the sound of a bullet smacking steel. Puts a big ole smile on my face.
"Ding" oh man... nothing like the sound of a bullet smacking steel. Puts a big ole smile on my face.
OP
CrustyShellback
Member
The range is Five Dogs.
The other pic is just public land out by Tule Elk Preserve.
The other pic is just public land out by Tule Elk Preserve.
OmpDog
Member
Thanks for an excellent review. I can see one of these in my future.
bhayles
Member
Depending on how far out your shooting will be, don't forget there is a 2.5x version of this optic.
Rastoff
US Veteran
I was wondering if that was 5 Dogs. I've shot USPSA there a few times.
How would Primary Arms 4X Compact AR15 Prism Scope with Patented ACSS Reticles work for 3-gun? So many options my head hurts.
bhayles
Member
Yes. They are designed specifically for that.
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