A very disappointed camper.

[Wheelgunner840]

I searched long and hard for a 10-shot 617 for several years. I recently found one here, and although it was priced higher than I really could afford, I bought it. I took it because it was a 4" (less common than the 6"), LNIB, and came with all the papers and box (plastic). The gun arrived, and looked like it just came from the factory. The seller said that he had put only ten rounds through it. It is a 617-4 pre-lock.

Since it looked great on initial inspection, I told the seller that it was a deal and to go ahead and cash my check. I went to the range immediately following the sale confirmation phone call. I had a heck of a time getting the empty brass to extract. Actually had to tap the end of the extracter on a wall to get the brass to break free. Aside from this, accuracy was not what I expected. From a solid bench rest, the best I could do at 50' was 2" groups. That is mediocre at best.

I took it to my gunsmith. We cleaned it and inspected the chambers and bore. There were machine marks (scuffs) in each chamber in just about the same place. Almost as if the reamer they used at the factory had a burr on it. There was also slight machine marks on one of the grooves in the rifling. I had my gunsmith polish the chambers as best he could, hoping that it would at least solve the extraction problem.

I just got it back, and once again test fired it at the indoor range at 50'. From a solid bench rest, it took me 60 rounds to be able to get a group of 2". To me, that is sucky accuracy. My model 41 will put them all in the same hole from a benchrest.

I am 99,9% sure that the person I bought this gun from did not know about these problems. Although, even shooting only ten rds. through it would have let him know about the extractor problems. Would have been nice to know ahead of time, as I paid over $600 for it.

Here is the question. Should I send the gun to S&W for a new cylinder (or have them re-ream this one)? What can I possibly do about the accuracy? Different ammo may help, but I don't think that it will. I tried three brands with the same results.

How much does S&W chrge for this kind of work?Should I ask them to replace the barrel as well, in an attempt to improve accuracy?

Any thoughts and advice is welcome. This was one of my holy grail guns. I am pretty much disgusted at this point.

Thanks,
WG840

 

[Wheelgunner840]

I searched long and hard for a 10-shot 617 for several years. I recently found one here, and although it was priced higher than I really could afford, I bought it. I took it because it was a 4" (less common than the 6"), LNIB, and came with all the papers and box (plastic). The gun arrived, and looked like it just came from the factory. The seller said that he had put only ten rounds through it. It is a 617-4 pre-lock.

Since it looked great on initial inspection, I told the seller that it was a deal and to go ahead and cash my check. I went to the range immediately following the sale confirmation phone call. I had a heck of a time getting the empty brass to extract. Actually had to tap the end of the extracter on a wall to get the brass to break free. Aside from this, accuracy was not what I expected. From a solid bench rest, the best I could do at 50' was 2" groups. That is mediocre at best.

I took it to my gunsmith. We cleaned it and inspected the chambers and bore. There were machine marks (scuffs) in each chamber in just about the same place. Almost as if the reamer they used at the factory had a burr on it. There was also slight machine marks on one of the grooves in the rifling. I had my gunsmith polish the chambers as best he could, hoping that it would at least solve the extraction problem.

I just got it back, and once again test fired it at the indoor range at 50'. From a solid bench rest, it took me 60 rounds to be able to get a group of 2". To me, that is sucky accuracy. My model 41 will put them all in the same hole from a benchrest.

I am 99,9% sure that the person I bought this gun from did not know about these problems. Although, even shooting only ten rds. through it would have let him know about the extractor problems. Would have been nice to know ahead of time, as I paid over $600 for it.

Here is the question. Should I send the gun to S&W for a new cylinder (or have them re-ream this one)? What can I possibly do about the accuracy? Different ammo may help, but I don't think that it will. I tried three brands with the same results.

How much does S&W chrge for this kind of work?Should I ask them to replace the barrel as well, in an attempt to improve accuracy?

Any thoughts and advice is welcome. This was one of my holy grail guns. I am pretty much disgusted at this point.

Thanks,
WG840

 

[toroflow1]

Sorry to hear of this. The only ammo that works good in my S&W .22 revolvers is Wal-Mart Federal 550 packs. If I use Remingtons, they are hard to extract, and this is on a 1948 K-22 and a 1964 model 34. I would try different ammo before I did anything else.

 

[Culina]

+1 on the Walmart Federal Copper Plated Value packs. Every thing else seems to have the same extraction problems you mentioned even after I polished the chambers on both of my K22's. Polishing helped a lot but did not eliminate the extraction problem. At least with the Federals I can now shoot a couple hundred before the guns gets fouled up.

Sorry about the accuracy problem, I don't have an answer for that one.

 

[jeffrey]

I have extraction problems with my one S&W .22, a model 63, with everything but Federal American Eagle. For me Remingtons are the worst. I too would really like a 4-inch 617 and I'm sorry to hear about the accuracy problems. I would at least call S&W.

 

[gscrasher]

Try several brands of ammo. I've had a number of S&W .22 revolvers. Some things to check: is the crown perfect? Is the barrel face parallel to the cylinder; i.e., when you look at the barrel cylinder gap is it truly straight? How about the forcing cone, does it look truly conical?

All of these things can be corrected with simple hand tools from Brownell's. I've tried some of these an they work.

With regard to extraction, it will be much more difficult than a six shooter because of the extra friction of 4 more chambers. The polishing should help.

I hope some of this helps. The model 17 and 617
are really fun guns.

 

[bountyhunter]

I would try recutting the crown on the barrel. Slight scuffs in the grooves of rifling won't do much, but the crown might. I have a Para 1640 with grooves so rough it looks like they cut it with a chain saw, but it does shoot 2" at 25 yards. have your smith check the crown.

The other thing you need to do is get a .22 range rod and check cylinder tube alignment to the bore in lockup. If that's off, it can really affect accuracy. That's why they make range rods...... your gunsmith should have one.

Do try other ammo brands to see if it improves.

 

[bountyhunter]

Originally posted by gscrasher:


With regard to extraction, it will be much more difficult than a six shooter because of the extra friction of 4 more chambers. The polishing should help.

I have a nine-shot HI-Standard .22 revolver and we ALWAYS had to whack the ejector to clear the brass out.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Your gun should be under the factory warranty and a call to Smith, should produce a return shipping label from them to send in your gun to correct any problems. Don't let your gunsmith do any more work untilthey have had a chance to work on it. Unauthorized service will void the warranty. My neighbors buddy had one just like yours with a forcing cone that was really rough, and caused spitting/shaving trouble, and he sent it in to be repaired. They smoothed the forcing cone and had it back in about a wek and a half. Now it shoots just fine. My neighbor has the same gun in a 6" version, and he and his buddy buy the Wal-mart Federals in the 550 packs as well. It seems that the Federal ammo is on the small side and so are the Smith chambers. They experience problems when they switch to other brands as well.

 

[K-22]

Originally posted by Wheelgunner840:
I searched long and hard for a 10-shot 617 for several years. I recently found one here, and although it was priced higher than I really could afford, I bought it. I took it because it was a 4" (less common than the 6"), LNIB, and came with all the papers and box (plastic). The gun arrived, and looked like it just came from the factory. The seller said that he had put only ten rounds through it. It is a 617-4 pre-lock.

Since it looked great on initial inspection, I told the seller that it was a deal and to go ahead and cash my check. I went to the range immediately following the sale confirmation phone call. I had a heck of a time getting the empty brass to extract. Actually had to tap the end of the extracter on a wall to get the brass to break free. Aside from this, accuracy was not what I expected. From a solid bench rest, the best I could do at 50' was 2" groups. That is mediocre at best.

I took it to my gunsmith. We cleaned it and inspected the chambers and bore. There were machine marks (scuffs) in each chamber in just about the same place. Almost as if the reamer they used at the factory had a burr on it. There was also slight machine marks on one of the grooves in the rifling. I had my gunsmith polish the chambers as best he could, hoping that it would at least solve the extraction problem.

I just got it back, and once again test fired it at the indoor range at 50'. From a solid bench rest, it took me 60 rounds to be able to get a group of 2". To me, that is sucky accuracy. My model 41 will put them all in the same hole from a benchrest.

I am 99,9% sure that the person I bought this gun from did not know about these problems. Although, even shooting only ten rds. through it would have let him know about the extractor problems. Would have been nice to know ahead of time, as I paid over $600 for it.

Here is the question. Should I send the gun to S&W for a new cylinder (or have them re-ream this one)? What can I possibly do about the accuracy? Different ammo may help, but I don't think that it will. I tried three brands with the same results.

How much does S&W chrge for this kind of work?Should I ask them to replace the barrel as well, in an attempt to improve accuracy?

Any thoughts and advice is welcome. This was one of my holy grail guns. I am pretty much disgusted at this point.

Thanks,
WG840

Send it back to S&W. Call them and request a shipping label. I bought a 617 used, and it had some issues. I had to send it back three times, but in the end, they replaced the cylinder, barrel, and........they refinished the entire gun. Now, it performs well on all counts.
Total cost to me? Other than the aggravation of having to send it back three times, zero cost.

Best,
Gary

 

[RON in PA]

As others have posted, send it back to S&W.

I have two Smith .22s, a model 18 and a model 17. The 18 doesn't give me extraction problems and with the right ammo does ok, if not great in the accuracy dept. The 17 is an extraction pain with almost all ammo and is very picky in the accuracy department. I carry a small plastic mallet with me when I shoot the 17, to whack the extractor.

I am of the opinion that as much as I like revolvers, 22 rim fire cartridges and revolvers are not the best combo. Selfloaders are the best bet.

 

[629man]

I agree with RoninPA. I tried new and older 617's, all barrel lengths including 8 3/8", none will out shoot my model 41. My 41 is about 5 years old with 5 1/2" barrel, it will eat whatever I feed it. I have a 6" 617 no dash, with many rounds thru it, it's the most accurate 22 revolver I have shot. The only 22 that will give the 41 a run for it's money is my 7 1/4" barrelled Hi-Standard Citation.

 

[Old Navy]

Never seen a revolver out shoot a nice auto loading model in same caliber. The automatic design is in itself more accurate, but most people would never see the difference in off hand shooting, only from a bench rest.

When revolvers have slightly over sized cylinder holes the cases will start sticking in the chambers. My model 48 with LR cylinder has no problems reguardless of ammo brand, the magnum cylinder on the other hand has cases stick when using the cheap Winchester and no stuck cases with CCI brands.

My Dan Wesson 722 had to have a new LR cylinder because it got so out of spec or oversized. They did ream out the old cylinder to 22 magnum for me.

The most likely min reason for cylinder chamber oversizing is too much wire brushing, however sounds like you got one that had the reamer replaced too late in the mfg process is all. As someone said if you would just call S&W tell them the problem you will most k]likely be sent a call ticket for UPS and S&W will fix for free.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

Great advice all. Thanks. I will ponder sending it back to S&W. It couldn't hurt to give them a call. If they will send me a shipping label, that would be good. If they can fix the problems, that would be great!

WG840

 

[Stainz]

You could have bought a brand new 617 for what you paid. It, of course, would be covered - bumper to bumper - by them - and even the call is on them. Don't 'let' someone else work on it - call S&W - they will likely still not charge you - just be honest when you speak with them. Great folks.

Of course you know that 41 is a real target gun, with it's longer barrel and chamber married to that barrel, inherently offering more accuracy than any revolver will be capable of. Still, a 617 is hard to beat for a great plinker. Whatever you do, keep that expensive bullseye target ammo for the 41 - and wean that 617 on proper ammo.

Below is my new 9/08 current production 4" 617 with the really high quality ammo, $13.47/550 at Wally World, it enjoys. Yeah, good stuff shoots a tad tighter and without the odd flier, but, hey, I can use my el-cheapo ammo as my marksmanship excuse de jour!

My 6" 66 needed those Ahrends back, so I ordered my 617 a set of Ahrends retro-target grips - traditional and a great feel. You'll be happy as a lark with your 617 - but it won't group like that 41.

Stainz

 

[DonD]

Well, sorry the OP and others have extraction problems.

This is a new data point for me, never knew DA revolvers in .22LR had this sort of issue. The only .22LR revolver I ever owned was a Ruger SA and of course, no issue there with the ejector rod. Don

 

[tbury]

I have a 17-2 which has tight chambers, but no extraction problems. It does however seem to be pretty accurate. I have not done a side-by-side comparison with my Browning Challenger or Bullseye models but have not felt that accuracy was bad. I have not done an ammo brand test yet with the 17-2 but the Browning Bullseye does great with CCI Greentag. +1 on calling S&W

 

[41]

Stainless is more porous than steel and it takes some shooting to smooth out the bore. I have even used fine valve grinding compound in the lube grooves of cast bullets to smooth out the barrel of a 686. These were shot at low velocity ...a few at a time...cleaned...tested again for accuracy. It took only two tries to smooth out the bore.

I have never tried this with a 22 but have read to just add a small amount of compound to the tip. This information was from Vern Smith's fire lapping technique.

41

 

[Bat Guano]

I would ship it off to S&W, hopefully at their expense and under warranty if you can contrive to do that.

I have been burned by surprises like that, and in future I think I am going to stick to either new guns under warranty or ones that I can return with no questions asked within a certain time period. I have a new gun in the safe now that is going back to the dealer tomorrow.

The other thing is that while I thinkam fairly knowledgeable on S&Ws and such, and even own a Kuhnhausen book--I occasional just cannot diagnose and fix something no matter how much I stare at it. Last time it was a M19 that had me completely mystified--and they fixed it.

Keep at it. I feel fortunate to have a M18 that has been serving faithfully since 1982.

 

[M29since14]

I have been down a similar path, in my case a Model 36, more than a few years ago now. The gun was purchased second-hand. Back then, it was hard to obtain any S&W around here, and this Chief was what I wanted and it couldn't be purchased new without who knows what kind of a wait.

Anyway, the gun had several problems, most annoying was that it shot considerably to the left. It also must have needed its hand re-fitted. This was when they didn't have a lifetime warranty, and I wouldn't have qualified anyway.

They fixed everything and charged me $11 or so, for a hand, and to ship it back. I'm sure they realized the gun was not right when it was shipped. I have had, and have heard, many good results with S&W like that over the years. I would give them a chance to fix it, and not do anything to the gun on my own. Just send it to them, maybe with a target, too, and tell them what's wrong.

S&W has always been smart enough to know they don't want guys like us unhappy with anything with their name on it, if they can help it. Let us know how things turn out.