S&W Model 41 Extractor Issues - one more thread

[mikemyers]

Just got home.

I poured a box of 50 CCI onto a towel, wiped them around for a while, and will put them back in a box - hopefully I can test tomorrow.

Next, a week or so ago, my gun started working perfectly. No misfires, and finally one round not ejecting. I replaced the extractor with the Volquartsen, installed a new factory spring, did a very basic cleaning, and the gun went back to failure-to-eject. I did run a patch down the barrel - maybe I shouldn't have done so.

Now the old spring is back in the gun. Tests for tomorrow include:
See if the gun works with the cleaned CCI ammo, and then
See if the gun works with regular CCI ammo (not cleaned).

Future tests will be to see if it works with a Wolff 6 pound spring (yes, oriented as described in this forum).


Kidcom, if you can help me find the full disassembly/assembly instructions, I might try this - or I might ask my gunsmith to do so. I'll try the easier tests first.

 

[leinster lad]

Mike, I have not seen any "full disassembly" instructions.

There used to be 2 web sites that had a series of pictures of a strip down.
Only one of those web sites is still current, and I posted the link to it in this tread a while back.

The other web site is now gone, but I did manage to extract all the pics from it before it closed down.

I also posted a link to those ripped pics to a "drop box".

It was back in post #41 http://smith-wessonforum.com/140483550-post41.html

I would suggest that you go to both of those web sites and copy all the pics to your hard drive. ( right click on pic, save as , select (or create) a folder for future reference)

Besides that, there is very little info AT ALL, and I have been looking for quite a few years now.

Even getting an exploded diagram or parts schematic has been difficult, and the ones that I have found have been of very low quality.

I might actually think about creating my own M41 video, showing all that I have learned along the way, and other useful hints and tips.

Oh, and put your old recoil spring back in !
(I would also get one of those recoil buffers )

 

[mikemyers]

The old spring is back in, and I have a 6# spring to try if needed.

Are the dropbox photos still there - sure, I'll copy them.
The other link with instructions for teardown, etc., I have, both on my computer and as a paper printout.

Kidcom, I'm willing to do a lot, but I think completely stripping down my Model 41 is still a ways off. I'm currently (for the first time) completely stripping down and re-doing a 1911 - one project like this at a time. My previous project was a Model 52, thanks to a HUGE amount of help from a person who used to build the Model 52's at the factory.

I'll see how things go tomorrow at the range. I'm taking the Model 41 (maybe it will work?), the Nelson (ditto), and my S&W revolver - if nothing else works, that's what I'll be using at Sunday's match.

 

[mikemyers]

Good news....

Went to the range, and with the cleaned ammo, the very first round didn't eject fully, but from then on the gun was perfect.

I tried later with new CCI SV straight from the box, and the rounds had trouble getting out of the magazine. I had to move the slide back, and release the slide, and the rounds loaded (and fired) (and ejected).

This is with my old OEM spring, probably around 6# by now, the Quartsen extractor, and the new extractor spring and plunger.

I went back to my new box of (uncleaned) CCI SV, and I had troubles again.

I suspect it's the wax on my ammo, that somehow has been affected by the Florida high temperature.

 

[leinster lad]

How far away from you were the rounds landing ? ( the ones where you had NO issues )

 

[leinster lad]

Oh, I have also taken to storing / transporting my ammo with the bullet facing DOWN.
This way, any of the remaining (after cleaning) wax can migrate its way down to the tip of the bullet.
That should minimise any chambering issues.

 

[mikemyers]

Good point - I will pay more attention to where the rounds were falling on my next trip to the range. Maybe tomorrow. I know they weren't dropping at my feet, but they were also mixed in with the rounds I shot from my Nelson.

Speaking the Nelson, it is new, and has been having lots of "issues". Most were solved by mounting it on a Les Baer Premiere II lower. Even then though, my cleaned bullets fired flawlessly, but my bullets that still had the wax on them wouldn't load all the time. They were "stuck" in the magazine. That never happened with the rounds I cleaned as you suggested.

I store my boxes of 50 rounds of ammo with the "front" facing up, so that's how you're suggesting to do it. That's another idea though - were the bullets stored lead-side-up, the wax might accumulate on the shell, especially here in Florida where 90 degrees is typical during summer.

Before I made the final changes, cases were getting "stuck" in the barrel. Following all the advice up above seems to have fixed that. The only thing I still need to do is the toothpick/sandpaper trick to clean the extractor spring hole if there are any burrs in it.

 

[mikemyers]

After struggling with this for all this time, while lots of things might have been needed, and/or benefitted my gun from all the advice here, the bottom line was the CCI 22 SV LR ammo wasn't correct. A week or so ago I went to the range with the CCI and a box of Eley Target. Eley worked fine in my Model 41, and also in my new Nelson. The CCI hadn't been working in either, which I assumed was due to mechanical parts, as I've been using CCI since the 1970's without issues. Since I had ordered a case of 5,000 CCI, they were all the same lot number. In my opinion, that lot number has a problem in high temperatures.

I called CCI Tech Support, gave them the full history of what's been going on with both guns, and that the "test brick" of Eley Target I ordered from the CMP worked fine in both guns. I also told them how hot it is here in Miami, and that as I switched back and forth between CCI, Eley, and Federal, all worked except the CCI which would not transfer from the magazine to the gun, and quite often got stuck in the barrel once it did get transferred.

CCI sent me a "call tag" and yesterday the UPS guy came and picked up almost all my CCI ammo to send back to CCI.

Yesterday was "only" 90 degrees here, and instead of 100% failure, it dropped to maybe 50%. Also, the wax felt different on both the CCI and the Eley. In 95 degree temperatures, the CCI almost felt "gooey", and the Eley felt as if someone sprayed it with lubricant. At "only" 90 degrees, both felt more "normal", like brass, not goop or oil.


I shot the match recently with Eley, and there were hardly any problems with my 41. The Nelson preferred the lighter 8# recoil spring instead of the 9# factory recoil spring. With the 8# spring and Nelson magazines, the Eley ammo worked perfectly.


I suggested CCI send me a few boxes of 50 rounds to try if the temperature gets back to the mid-to-high 90's, so I can be sure it's working OK before they ship me bricks.


All the information in this thread has been useful, especially the part about the Wolff recoil spring. Nobody I've passed the information on to knew that, and I'm not sure they believed me, until I pointed out the hole the spring can come out of. My 41 works now, as does my Nelson. Frustration gone.

 

[Dave Lively]

After struggling with this for all this time, while lots of things might have been needed, and/or benefitted my gun from all the advice here, the bottom line was the CCI 22 SV LR ammo wasn't correct.

Was the CCI packaged in 100 round boxes? Someone, either online or at the range, told me that the 100 round ammo is made in what was always a CCI plant in Idaho but the stuff in 500 round bricks was made in what was a Federal plant before they became one big company.

After having poor results with the CCI std. in 500 round bricks I tried a few 100 boxes. It behaved exactly the same as the stuff in 500 round bricks. Same failure rate of 3% to 5%, same sort of wax. Maybe the "don't buy CCI by the brick" advise was the result of a few bad lots.

Atlanta is not quite as hot as Miami but I feel your pain with the wax. I mostly shoot at outdoor ranges since I belong to a gun club. On hot days I have seen the wax melt at the range and, drip down to the bottom of the bullet or side of the case. When I get back in the AC instead of a nice even layer of lube the shells have big uneven blobs of wax with dry cases.

Let us know what CCI says when they get the ammo back.

 

[mikemyers]

.........On hot days I have seen the wax melt at the range and, drip down to the bottom of the bullet or side of the case. When I get back in the AC instead of a nice even layer of lube the shells have big uneven blobs of wax with dry cases.

Let us know what CCI says when they get the ammo back.

I bought a case, 10 bricks of 500 rounds each. Inside each brick were ten smaller boxes of 50 rounds each. These smaller boxes used to be colored black, but for some strange reason they came in blue.

Sure, will post here and in the Bullseye Forum what they finally tell me. It sounds like your experience is even worse than mine, or maybe it is THE reason why rounds were getting stuck in the barrel!!