AD at range

[keithylton]

So embarrassed as I hold any AD as lack of knowledge or stupidity. I just got my Shield 9mm back for Gander gunsmith where the installed the APEX M&P Shield Duty / Carry Action Enhancement & Trigger Kit (DC-AETK). Pulled slide back and locked, checked for clear chamber, Moved slide forward, inserted 7 round mag, bumped it to make sure it was set. Pulled slide back to chamber round. Released Slide and saw that slide was not fully seated forward, ( had seen this before enough times before APEX modifications that it is just normal to me) (might be my first mistake??) The slide sits back with a round chambered about 1/8 to 1/16 inch at the most. I looked at top of slide to confirm round indicator was showing the shell. I normally just push the slide forward the rest of the way like before. But I'm sure I choice to slide it forward via using my free thumb to push it forward. As soon, and I mean as soon as I push the slide forward, pistol when off. I must have had so much pressure on the slide from my thumb because when I looked down and realized what had just happened, I dropped the mag and cocked the slide back to extract the shell casing. And yes, I was no where near the trigger guard- finger was parallel with the slide. Is there something I did wrong? Should I always make sure the trigger is released after pulling the slide back to check for free chamber before I place the mag back in? But I don't think that would have matter as I will still need to pull the side back to chamber the first round, I'm going to take it back to Gander gunsmith tomorrow but was wondering if others had ever had misfire loading the first round by bumping the slide forward to fully seat the round. Maybe The fact I need to bump the slide forward 80 percent of the time with different ammo is a defect?

I feel like an ***. Thank you for you replies

 

[Bozz10mm]

If you are having to bump the slide forward 80% of the time on the first round, I would think that you are probably riding the slide. You should pull it back and release it so that it goes forward forcefully. If you are absolutely, positively, sure you didn't have your finger on the trigger when you bumped it forward, then there might be a problem with the new sear.

Was your thumb injured when the pistol discharged? That should have been painful. Just sayin'.

 

[ATF]

I don't see how the gun could fire unless the striker was protruding somehow and that should only happen when you pull the trigger. Maybe the APEX kit wasn't installed correctly. I always use the slide stop to release the slide on a loaded mag on all my semi-autos. Others will disagree with this but I find it's more positive. It could be a defect with your Shield but more likely you are "babying" the slide. Rack it like you want to rip the slide off the frame a release it cleanly. Fortunately no one was hurt and hopefully you were pointing the gun downrange. Don't beat yourself up over it. Learn from it.

 

[ATF]

In addition remove your striker and check the striker and channel for dirt and foreign objects. Plenty of You Tube vids on how to do this just takes a few minutes. Welcome to the forum.

 

[OKFC05]

Maybe The fact I need to bump the slide forward 80 percent of the time with different ammo is a defect?

Unless the gun is grossly defective, what you have described is a problem with gun handling, or as I used to say in the military "a short between the headphones."
The easiest and most positive way to load a semi auto is from an open slide: insert mag, grasp rear of slide and pull it back like you are trying to rip it off, and hang on until the slide is pulled out of your hand, insuring full rearward travel, and forward travel WITHOUT your hand on it.

If you load on a closed slide, make sure the mag is fully seated, and operate slide the same as above.

But I'm sure I choice to slide it forward via using my free thumb to push it forward.

This is a really bad idea. Most of the time, a shooter unconsciously puts the trigger finger on the trigger with this motion.
If you're going to try to bump a slide home, use the heel of your weak hand. I'm having trouble grasping that you were not hurt.

I am an instructor and see these kinds of problems frequently. They are all curable with classes from a qualified instructor.

By the way, on terminology, a misfire is when a cartridge does not fire.

 

[Rickgus]

Keith - A question I have to ask, is this a new Shield that you had Gander Mountain do the retro work? Was the Shield working properly before the work was done? I am a little skeptical of some of these mods out there, but that is just me, and I am a firm believer that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!" - Rick

 

[old&slow]

I try not to get hung-up on verbiage ,, like clip vs- magazine ,, bullet vs- cartridge ,, etc..

But a misfire is a round that doesn't go Bang.. Accidental Discharge or AD is when the gun goes Bang when you didn't want it to..

The good news is if the firearm is Always pointed in a safe direction and a AD happens ... It is just embarrassing and not a trip to the hospital or worse..

Glad everyone is OK and I'd get the firearm checked out to make sure it is safe.. And Maybe by another gunsmith,, other than the one that 'fixed' it the first time..

 

[Stratajema]

OP, if your gun fired without you pulling the trigger, then you have a defective gun. Yes, you should suspect any gunsmith work done on the pistol as the likely cause. Find a new gunsmith.

The tendency with a problem like this is to look for a single cause of the problem but it is possible that you have more than one mechanical problem with the pistol.

 

[rsrocket1]

The problem with using the slide lock as a "slide release" is that you are usually using your thumb to pull down the lock which gives you an even weaker grip on the gun. That turns your hand into a shock absorber and it soaks up some of the recoil spring force in closing the slide.

Try it at home with an empty gun without the magazine. Try a "slingshot" release, then try a slide lock release. You'll see the difference in slide closing force.

As for the OP's AD, there is something definitely wrong with your gun if bumping the slide forward either releases the striker or if the firing pin is already protruding. Both the sear and the striker block ought to be holding the striker back even with a bump on the slide.

 

[keithylton]

Thank you all, for taking the time to answer questions about my AD. The more and more I try to remember the AD, I'm starting to believe its closer to what you're all talking about. I know that the shell casing was still in the breach after the AD, and yes, my thumb did hurt. I believe I might have pulled the trigger when I pushed the slide forward with my thumb. It's the only thing that makes sense. I had the gunsmith break down the modifications again (once I said, "I had an AD") and he showed me how everything was installed correctly. I talked about the slide not closing enough, and he showed me how the Shield likes to be racked, And you gentleman were indeed correct in your belief that it sounded like lack of training and an operator issue not the pistol. I've carried a Colt 38 Special for years and practice total safety at range and home but it' has been years since I handled an Auto - last time was 2005 in Army. I signed up to take a class at my range next week and learn from this mistake. Again, I took everything you all said and It did sink into my thick head. I think I'm going to enjoy learning from this forum. And no more typing late at night with a few beers in me.

 

[old&slow]

I read an article a long time ago that said ,, there are two types of people... Those who have had AD's ,, and those you will have AD's..

It happens to the best of us.. Accidents do happen but the first rule,, Always keep the firearm pointed in a safe direction is a must..

How do you think all these wise old guys survived so long ? Just Blind *** Luck ..
As they say ,, listen to old pople ,, you don't live long enough to make all the mistakes by yourself..

Good Luck ,, stay Safe ,,, and popping another beer sounds like a good idea,,

 

[ginzo]

BRAVO for stepping up and finding the issue/solution to the situation. No one hurt, everybody goes home, lesson learned.

Only a MANS' man, steps up and takes responsibility.

"nuff said

Chuck

Thank you all, for taking the time to answer questions about my AD. The more and more I try to remember the AD, I'm starting to believe its closer to what you're all talking about. I know that the shell casing was still in the breach after the AD, and yes, my thumb did hurt. I believe I might have pulled the trigger when I pushed the slide forward with my thumb. It's the only thing that makes sense. I had the gunsmith break down the modifications again (once I said, "I had an AD") and he showed me how everything was installed correctly. I talked about the slide not closing enough, and he showed me how the Shield likes to be racked, And you gentleman were indeed correct in your belief that it sounded like lack of training and an operator issue not the pistol. I've carried a Colt 38 Special for years and practice total safety at range and home but it' has been years since I handled an Auto - last time was 2005 in Army. I signed up to take a class at my range next week and learn from this mistake. Again, I took everything you all said and It did sink into my thick head. I think I'm going to enjoy learning from this forum. And no more typing late at night with a few beers in me.

 

[federali]

A few Observations

There have been many threads on the Apex trigger systems. People either like them or feel they don't need them but I've yet to hear of a defective Apex trigger system causing an AD. Hopefully, the gunsmith didn't decide to tweet things and get too happy with the files and stones.

It is my opinion that you should practice or train on the range as you would on the street. For this reason, I've always tried to eliminate as many fine motor skills for my students as possible. Under the stress of a confrontation, gross motor skills tend to work better. Upon inserting the magazine, rotate the handgun 180 degrees so that the slide is now between the fingers of your support hand. Grab the slide, snap it rearwards and release. Then, rotate the gun back to firing position. Assume your two-hand grip.

The slide release is okay. The problem is, on some guns, you need two thumbs to release the slide.

 

[Johnmuratore]

federali
I don't understand the rotation 180 degrees. Do you mean to press the support hand holding the slide against the right hip while pushing the strong hand holding the frame forward? Keeping the muzzle pointing downrange at all times, of course.

 

[OKFC05]

federali
I don't understand the rotation 180 degrees. Do you mean to press the support hand holding the slide against the right hip while pushing the strong hand holding the frame forward? Keeping the muzzle pointing downrange at all times, of course.

What he undoubtedly meant was to rotate the pistol 90 degrees from vertical so the sights are toward your weak hand, then grab the back of the slide with your weak hand. This allows power all the way to your shoulders to operate the slide (you can lock yours arms and shrug your strong side shoulder forward), and the gun is pointed directly downrange all the time. Its my standard answer to "I'm too weak to work the slide" and "when I reach over the slide I point the gun at my weak arm."

 

[Magload]

I not following it either unless you are holding the gun inverted to drop the mag in then turning the gun right side up. How do you release the slide with two thumbs. If the loaded mag in in the gun you don't need the slide release just slingshot the slide. Pictures please. Don

 

[Muss Muggins]

So embarrassed as I hold any AD as lack of knowledge or stupidity. I just got my Shield 9mm back for Gander gunsmith where the installed the APEX M&P Shield Duty / Carry Action Enhancement & Trigger Kit (DC-AETK). Pulled slide back and locked, checked for clear chamber, Moved slide forward, inserted 7 round mag, bumped it to make sure it was set. Pulled slide back to chamber round. Released Slide and saw that slide was not fully seated forward, ( had seen this before enough times before APEX modifications that it is just normal to me) (might be my first mistake??) The slide sits back with a round chambered about 1/8 to 1/16 inch at the most. I looked at top of slide to confirm round indicator was showing the shell. I normally just push the slide forward the rest of the way like before. But I'm sure I choice to slide it forward via using my free thumb to push it forward. As soon, and I mean as soon as I push the slide forward, pistol when off. I must have had so much pressure on the slide from my thumb because when I looked down and realized what had just happened, I dropped the mag and cocked the slide back to extract the shell casing. And yes, I was no where near the trigger guard- finger was parallel with the slide. Is there something I did wrong? Should I always make sure the trigger is released after pulling the slide back to check for free chamber before I place the mag back in? But I don't think that would have matter as I will still need to pull the side back to chamber the first round, I'm going to take it back to Gander gunsmith tomorrow but was wondering if others had ever had misfire loading the first round by bumping the slide forward to fully seat the round. Maybe The fact I need to bump the slide forward 80 percent of the time with different ammo is a defect?

I feel like an ***. Thank you for you replies

How's your thumb?

(If it's not bleeding, I don't believe a single word of this . . .)

 

[Biggfoot44]

The origional oversight is in not doing a complete function check on a gun that has been worked upon ( or new gun, or new to you gun ). Had that been done , several variables would have been either already corrected , or ruled out.

Maybe it's just me , but I get better and more consistant slide drops from using the slide release than from sling shoting. I have XX Long fingers and good handstrength , so slide stops have been my default technique , but I realize that others may be digitally challenged.

 

[ATF]

Have to agree with Biggfoot here I have extra large hands too and I like the slide stop release technique. I don't have any problems dropping the slide lock. Sure all guns need at least a few 100 rounds through them before you can trust them and get used to their differences but I'll say you had me worried here about pushing the slide forward on a live round because I've done it hundreds of times without incident and it will cause a nasty thumb injury if it goes bang.

 

[federali]

John Muratori's Question

If you shoot a gun dry, you are now in slide lock and the gun is in firing position, Once you discard the spent magazine and insert a fresh magazine, the support hand is now under the gun in a sort of cup-and-saucer hold.

I tend to write with brevity so as to avoid long-winded responses. Anyway, with the support hand still under the gun, you rotate the gun anywhere from 90 degrees to as much as 180 degrees so that the support hand may grip the slide. If you try to keep the gun upright at all times, you must reach over the gun with the support hand and you will have difficulty using the strongest part of the hand (thumb, index and middle finger). Instead, you'll be using the weaker part of the hand as you probably can't get your thumb to assist.

Years ago, I had the pleasure of working with several Israeli Mossad agents who, at the time, all carried Browning Hi-Powers. It was they who taught me this reloading technique.

Any technique needs a bit of practice. This is the fastest way I know of to reload a handgun in slide lock relying solely on gross motor skills.

When I said that some guns need two thumbs on the slide release, I have experienced guns in which I could not activate the slide release with just the right thumb of the shooting hand. A person with small hands or short fingers would also have difficulty using the slide release and would be forced to break his grip on the handgun.