Advantages of 40 vs. 45 ACP?

[rwsmith]

Ditching 10mm....

Ditching 10mm was easy. They immediately found out that a good many of the agents couldn't handle one. As far as bigger more powerful handgun bullets, I said in a previous post that if they need something bigger than any decent sized caliber, they should have carbines and rifles.

 

[rwsmith]

Ditching 10mm....

Ditching 10mm was easy. They immediately found out that a good many of the agents couldn't handle one. As far as bigger more powerful handgun bullets, I said in a previous post that if they need something bigger than any decent sized caliber, they should have carbines and rifles.

PS: One problem with putting a .40 barrel on a 9mm frame is that the frame doesn't hold up, depending on how beefy it was made.

 

[ahern25]

Why do I carry a 45? Because they don't make a 46 LOL.

I own both and must say I find it harder in follow up shots with the 40 then the 45. I have no worries carrying either round. I also carry a 9 and still carry a 38 revolver. Funny thing is be it 38, 9, 40 or 45 put it in the right spot and watch them go down.

 

[DanP7]

There are no advantages that make up for the smaller caliber.
Bob Ray

Double the capacity is pretty compelling of an advantage.....

40 has better hard barrier penetration than 45 as well.

40 is pretty ideal for a cop working the road.

 

[DanP7]

I will take a 45APC over most anything else for the stopping power. Especially if my shot is accurate. I do my own reloading and a 225 grain bullet will do the job with 5.5 grains of powder. One or two of them should stop any attacker in his tracks very quickly.

Could you define "stopping power"?

 

[DanP7]

Back in the '80s my agency transitioned to the Glock 19, but after a couple of officer involved shootings the 9mm was coming up short w/respect to stopping the bad guy. We decided on the Model 23 b/c Glock offered us an even swap, no need to buy new holsters and mag carriers, women could handle the size of the Glock 23 better, and the .40 was supposed to be a better stopper than the forty-five.

Our SWAT guys pushed hard for the .45 but were on board w/the .40 after handling them, plus real world street performance. I've been retired since 1997 and still have my Gen II Glock 23, which was retired w/me, and it still runs great.

"Back in the 80's.....Glock 19"



It's 30 years later.........defensive loads of 9mm of 2015 is substantially better than It was in the 80's.


FBI is going back it 9mm.


45 is nice and nostalgic. It will do the job, but make mine a 9mm.

 

[DanP7]

You are partly rite in my opinion .40s&w is a 9x19 with a bigger ego because they can be more accurate at greater distance then the 9 or .45
A .40 cal gose further point first then 9x19 and.45 because they begin to tummble at diffrent points thats why the fbi likes the accuracy with "stopping power"

What???......

 

[Warren Sear]

^^^^Not only "what", but "what the fudge"?

 

[Warren Sear]

I am a long-time 45 auto fan, and have never fired even a single round of 40 S&W. That said, I will never forget how disappointed I was the first time I fired my new Colt GM at an old car and discovered it would not reliably penetrate the doors. I would imagine the 40 S&W out performs a 45 in this case. 9mm will sail right through a car door.

 

[Mainsail]

I have wondered from time to time why the FBI just didn't the 45 ACP.

From what I've read the FBI skipped the 9mm and .45acp because they were of the opinion that both of those cartridges were pretty much already all they were ever going to be. In other words; they had advanced as much as was possible. NOTE: They were wrong about that, more so for the 9mm than the .45, but hollow points have gotten a lot better in both.

So they went looking for a new round and decided on the 10mm. Since the 10mm story was still being written, they had the option of writing it any way they wanted. After some testing they decided they could get the performance they wanted by loading the 10mm down.

Someone at S&W figured if there was empty room in the case, why not just use a shorter case, then the OAL would be shorter and the cartridge would fit in smaller framed guns. The .40S&W was born.

Opinion now: The .40S&W isn't merely a 10mm case cut down shorter- there were some other dimensional changes made as well, especially in the thickness of the case wall down at the bottom. The kabooms are a result of the lack of case thickness at the bottom, or the lack of chamber support in the same area, or both.

I don't own any .40s right now. I have nothing against them, but for me they're the answer to a question I wasn't asking. I'm not in police work or the military (any more) so the whole hub-bub about capacity seems silly enough to enjoy from the sidelines. (I still haven't found any stories of a regular citizen losing a self-defense gunfight because they couldn't reload fast enough.) I'm perfectly comfortable with the nine rounds in my 1911, and one or two spare mags.

 

[CH4]

Like the perpetual debate between 270 and 30-06 cranks, the debate between handguns and ammo will continue ad nauseum well into the future.

In the grand scheme of things, there's not enough meaningful difference between current, mainstream handgun rounds and their paper ballistics - training, shot placement and personal preference are more important. If you're confident and well trained any combination of the above will handily do the job. But I agree it's still entertaining to listen to folk's reasoning and rational, some of which borders on delusional.

For me, I prefer the nostalgia among other intangibles of the .45acp. However, llike many I carried a .40 S&W (P229) most of my career because I got caught up in the "it's a compromise between the 9mm's capacity and the 45acp's bore diameter. Being retired with a Modest stable of handguns, I choose whatever gun makes me happy at the moment. Sometimes I give the nod to my P232 in .380 and feel just as confident as if I were carrying one of my .357 mags.

 

[ankona]

Why shoot the 40 short & weak when you can have the 45. Plus reloading the 45 acp is so much nicer.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Thank you for accepting the facts. Please remember to vote for me when I run for an office. You need smart people like me to manage your lives.

A man with a sense of humor in a debate this serious? THANK YOU!! Shooting to save lives is like buying real estate, LOCATION x 3. Get 18 inches of penetration on a 250 pound bad guy turned quartered to you and you will stand a chance of getting to something to help your cause. Please don't fall into the FT LB trap. Penetration and placement is ALL that matters. Without those you have problems.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

I am a long-time 45 auto fan, and have never fired even a single round of 40 S&W. That said, I will never forget how disappointed I was the first time I fired my new Colt GM at an old car and discovered it would not reliably penetrate the doors. I would imagine the 40 S&W out performs a 45 in this case. 9mm will sail right through a car door.

Remember.. All things being equal..Design, mass, and velocity, a smaller caliber will always out penetrate a larger one. We run 200 grain Cast Performance Gas Checks in 357 out of 4 inch guns that will penetrate 21 inches in our media box that exactly duplicates animal autopsies .

 

[Lt JL]

I will say, from personal experience, and on-site experience with others, the .45 lets out more blood and pushes in more crud. Some guys shot with .40 don't even know they are shot right away. That's not a good thing. I never felt poorly equipped with my duty 226 in .40, but I would have preferred a .45.
I sort of watch Texas Rangers ad the Secret Service, and the Air Marshals' equipment. Consequently, I like .357 sig and .45 acp.

 

[DanP7]

Why shoot the 40 short & weak when you can have the 45. Plus reloading the 45 acp is so much nicer.

Because ballistics............


Not interested in comparing girth.



I don't reload ammo that I carry for self defense. Factory crimped and sealed only.

 

[DanP7]

I am a long-time 45 auto fan, and have never fired even a single round of 40 S&W. That said, I will never forget how disappointed I was the first time I fired my new Colt GM at an old car and discovered it would not reliably penetrate the doors. I would imagine the 40 S&W out performs a 45 in this case. 9mm will sail right through a car door.

Post #84 . But, specifically in regards to laminated auto glass or modern automobile doors, .40s&w performs substantially better than similar loadings in 45acp and 9mm.



Also, anything worth shooting once, is worth shooting a bunch of times. Capacity is good. 8+1 is not enough.

 

[44wheelman]

There is no such thing as stopping power unless your talking about cars, trucks, and busses.

Okay then, think of the 45 as an itty bitty buss, the 9mm as an itty bitty car, and the 40 as an itty bitty pick up truck.....which do you want to get run over with.

Ah the poor 40 slow n whimpy, jack of all trades, king of none. I like compromise, so it's okay for me.

One advantage of the .45, better selection of target guns.

 

[Jlyrgr]

For those interested... The FBI commissioned a pretty intensive study on handgun wounding with some SCIENCE behind the process. You may be interested in what they found after working through the data they gathered from across LE Agencies across the nation. I am new(er) to the forum so forgive me if it is NOT ok to post a link to article. I will edit if need be.

FBI Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness - FirearmsTactical.com

* For those who want to save the read time:
1.) Psychological stop is more prevalent / a greater factor than a physiological stop - most often.

2.) Physiological stopping capacity is pretty much a wash across the major calibers

3.) Accurate hits on target are crucial

4.) Multiple hits on target are crucial

YMMV

 

[Ruber]

I use and like both, and I'd really hate to be shot by either.

To me, bullet type and construction matter a great deal.

Right now, if I want solids, I'll go with the 45 auto. I really like a lot of the hardcast and FMJ choices out there. Hard hitting with decent penetration, especially from a modern 45.

If I want JHP's I'll go with 40 S&W. I really like how XTP's perform at 40 S&W velocities. These are my choice for go to carry.

If I want lead free HPs, I'll go with the 45 or go up to 10mm auto. I can't get the lead free 40's to do as well as I'd like at the S&W velocities. Bumped up just a bit, they can be pretty good. The 10mm lite loadings with some of the lead free options are nice.

Just my thoughts from seeing how the available choices work in my guns and on the things I shoot.