Aim point vs Eotech?

[RDFabsRep]

What the heck...I'm bored...let's revive an old thread.

Looking into an optic for a new project I'm taking on. I currently own an Eotech 552. I like it plenty, but I also recognize it's shortcomings. To me, those are: battery life, size (including weight) and push-button controls.

For this current project, I've all but made up my mind on an Aimpoint Micro T- (or) H-1, paired with the Larue tall mount. In complete contrast to the Eotech, I'm being drawn in by the barely-there weight, 5-year (constantly on the highest setting) battery life and large selector knob.

I'm doing my best to hold out buying the setup, but I have a feeling that'll only last for so long.

 

[nyeti]

Many things to consider here. Eotech provides a larger field of view as well as an enhanced reticle. With the dot in the center of a circle, and the larger sighting window, target acquisition is faster. Shooting with both eyes open, the operator has a clear view of the entire area, not just the area seen through the sight tube. Battery life seems to be the biggest detractor, as operating a laser takes significantly more energy than running an LED.

I'll preface this with a disclaimer....I do contract work for Aimpoint as a L/E Pro Staffer. I also put E/O Techs into my old agency......which is how I ended up being an Aimpoint person. I am very familiar with both, and used both extensively in the field.

I wanted to quote the above because it has a glaring issue. If you are looking "through the sight tube", you are doing it wrong. By virtue of design, the EoTech looks like a TV and folks generally "get it". With the Aimpoint, it has a tube like a scope, so folks tend to look through it. If you wholly focus on the target and target area, the dot will transpose itself over your vision and you should just see a target, evaluate it, if it warrants and is justified to put a muzzle on it you quickly snap the rifle on target and the dot will simply be an indicator of where your round will impact. If you look "at" the dot, or are staring through the tube like a scope and focused on the dot like a traditional reticule in a scope, you are doing it wrong. It will work, and some people with various optical/brain injuries or eye issues (I am one of them) may have to use this method, especially at distance, but it is not the way to most efficiently use the optic, especially when speed is the goal.

In the home defense role, just like L/E, that sight needs to be ON all the time. Trying to mess around with digital buttons to get your gun ready is a fail waiting to happen in these roles. Also, a battery will last longer in the Aimpoint left on in a low or medium setting than it will sitting in a drawer.

As far as the Daniel Defense videos, in the one where the gun is thrown out of the helicopter and the "sight lost zero", this was not the case. They found the barrel was slightly bent and sight was still actually zeroed. Far more rugged and reliable in my experience than the E/O tech. For 3 gun, hobby shooting, etc, I have no issues with the E/O tech. For the way most people use a red dot for defensive and protective work where it needs to always be on, and super reliable and rugged, I prefer the Aimpoint.

 

[rojodiablo]

My 556.A65 doesn't have the two dot reticle either, but an EXPS2-2 is in my future.

Anyone want to buy a lightly used EOTech 556.A65?

Talk to me........

My vote is Eotech. Very, VERY clear picture. No glare. Real important in really low light hunting situations. I can still make out hogs in brush well, and the LED sights glare it up a bit too much.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

I think both are battle tough.

Aimpoint H1/T1
Smaller
Lighter
Simpler
Longer battery life (years of constant on operation).

EOTech
Clearer
Range finding and holdover reticle (different reticle choices)
Wide selection of models (including laser) and price points.

----------------------

There is endless subjective measures. In general, a lot of folks will say the EOTech reticle is a bit faster with the 65MOA ring. Others will say the EOTech reticle is a busy pixelated distraction. The clarity between the EOTech and Aimpoint is significant. Aimpoint is dingy. EOTech is crystal clear. EOTech has buttons and instruction manual. Aimpont is designed to just leave it on for years. With the small size and different mounting options, the Aimpont is quite versatile. It can be used on just about any platform including handguns.

------------------

I chose the H1 with LaRue LT660 mount

 

[Stan O]

What can I say. I own an Aimpoint ML.

 

[TenTea]

Aimpoint

Good enough for the ell aye vee = good enough for me!

 

[Maximumbob54]

I've used both and went with Eotech. I liked the finer dot. And the Aimpoint I used in the litterbox looked like a small bunch of grapes to my eye all the time. The newer 2MOA models are better about that though although the tactical crowd still says the 4MOA is better for faster target blah blah blah.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

They are both fine optics. With my eyes and shooting style I prefer the EoTech for the large ring for fast work close in and the fine dot for more precision work at range. With the 512 battery life is not a factor as the commonly found AA battery's are cheap and I carry spares at all times. Wish I had mine back in my IPSC rifle match days.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Battery life really isn't about the cost or need for a bunch of spare batteries, its about operation.

Aimpoint you turn it on and can leave it on, period. Anytime you need the rifle there is no requirement to first fiddle with buttons, the optic is already on and ready. Three or four years later you pop in a new battery for the heck of it. EOTech automatically shuts off after 4 or 8hrs because of rapid battery drain, requiring the operator to turn it back on before he can use it.

 

[uncledoggle]

Has anyone noticed that this thread started back in May?

By the way, Eotech on the S&W, Nikon M223 on the Colt

 

[nyeti]

Has anyone noticed that this thread started back in May?

By the way, Eotech on the S&W, Nikon M223 on the Colt

Somebody wanted to discuss the topic again in post #21. Sorry, didn't know I did something wrong. I'll head back to the collectors stuff as I normally don't post on forums about "work" stuff anymore.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

It's fine... my battery is still working since May.

 

[Rastoff]

Nothing wrong with bringing this topic back up. The info is still relevant.

Everyone should go read post #22 by nyeti. It is very well stated.

If you keep your AR by the nightstand for "bump in the night" duty, then the Aimpoint is the right choice. The ability to have it always on far outweighs any minor differences in clarity or reticle choice. Operated properly, the EOTech will stay on for the duration of most people's sleep cycle, but you will have to replace the batteries every 4 months or so (assuming mid power and that you have a 556. Other models will need batteries replaced more often).

That said, I don't use my gun for that. At the rate I'm using mine, I'll have to replace the batteries in about 2 years. And, I still like the reticle better on the EOTech.

 

[WR Moore]

Back a few years, I was regularly swapping electrons with a field grade in the sandbox. Apparently, in the conditions there, EO Techs died in vast quantities. IIRC, the major issue was in the battery box. Hopefully, they fixed those issues.

We looked at EO Tech and decided it was entirely too busy with buttons. Plus, the thought of having the thing decide to time out at the wrong time was a major issue.

I've personally been buying Aimpoint for over 30 years.

 

[TheMaineEvent]

Aimpoint guy here on my Sport. I can't say anything about eotech, but I can definitely say that I really like my Aimpoint Pro. Good glass, accurate, and as mentioned, the battery life is very nice.

 

[RDFabsRep]

I'll preface this with a disclaimer....I do contract work for Aimpoint as a L/E Pro Staffer. I also put E/O Techs into my old agency......which is how I ended up being an Aimpoint person. I am very familiar with both, and used both extensively in the field.

I wanted to quote the above because it has a glaring issue. If you are looking "through the sight tube", you are doing it wrong. By virtue of design, the EoTech looks like a TV and folks generally "get it". With the Aimpoint, it has a tube like a scope, so folks tend to look through it. If you wholly focus on the target and target area, the dot will transpose itself over your vision and you should just see a target, evaluate it, if it warrants and is justified to put a muzzle on it you quickly snap the rifle on target and the dot will simply be an indicator of where your round will impact. If you look "at" the dot, or are staring through the tube like a scope and focused on the dot like a traditional reticule in a scope, you are doing it wrong. It will work, and some people with various optical/brain injuries or eye issues (I am one of them) may have to use this method, especially at distance, but it is not the way to most efficiently use the optic, especially when speed is the goal.

In the home defense role, just like L/E, that sight needs to be ON all the time. Trying to mess around with digital buttons to get your gun ready is a fail waiting to happen in these roles. Also, a battery will last longer in the Aimpoint left on in a low or medium setting than it will sitting in a drawer.

As far as the Daniel Defense videos, in the one where the gun is thrown out of the helicopter and the "sight lost zero", this was not the case. They found the barrel was slightly bent and sight was still actually zeroed. Far more rugged and reliable in my experience than the E/O tech. For 3 gun, hobby shooting, etc, I have no issues with the E/O tech. For the way most people use a red dot for defensive and protective work where it needs to always be on, and super reliable and rugged, I prefer the Aimpoint.

Just out of curiosity...do you prefer either the 2- or 4MOA dot over the other? It seems as though they're really close in size, so I'm leaning towards a 4MOA.

Also, on a rifle that would most likely never see night vision, do you feel it's a waste to get the T-1 if it's only marginally more expensive than the H-1? I'd like to think I got the best optic, but I feel as though having to turn the dial (7, I think?) times before a dot appears might get a little "annoying." From what I understand, the first 6/7 clicks of the dial are night vision, and then it turns to a red dot visible to the naked eye.

 

[WR Moore]

Asked the same question a couple of years ago, the advice from experienced folks was go with the 2 MOA dot. How they measure the dot is somewhat of a mystery. Plus, if you ramp up the brightness, the apparent size of the dot creeps upward. So, the 4 moa dot can end up as an 8 moa dot in very bright light. Now if your usage is on an entry team where 25 yards is a long shot, you might want to go with 4 moa. (Note: the optics we use at work have a 4 (4.5?) moa dot. They're a pain in the butt if you're trying to engage a small [head sized] target at 100 yards.) I'm happy with the 2 moa dot on my PRO, the much older 3000 I mention later is 3 moa.

Now, if you poke around on the Aimpoint website, you'll learn that under 3 moa, your eye may have trouble seeing the dot as round. This isn't really an issue, you can generally assume that the bullet is going to be somewhere inside the dot-entry work at room ranges excepted. Plus, there's the dot bloom I mentioned earlier. Hint: seeing the dot as a bunch of grapes is a clue you need to see your eye doctor-take the sight along and don't be satisfied until the dot is round.

I have both a non night vision (3000)and a night vision capable (PRO)Aimpoint. The 3000 has 10 brightness selections, it's easy to find a good match for day lighting conditions. The PRO also has 10 brightness selections, the first 2 are NVG only, the next 2 work well for unaided night work. The remaining 6 positions handle daylight. The issue is that the choices for certain day lighting conditions may be a choice between very hard to see and brighter (and an apparently larger dot) than really necessary. Depends upon how fussy you are and what size/kind of targets you're trying to hit.

 

[RDFabsRep]

^^^Great info--thanks!!

 

[nyeti]

Just out of curiosity...do you prefer either the 2- or 4MOA dot over the other? It seems as though they're really close in size, so I'm leaning towards a 4MOA.

Also, on a rifle that would most likely never see night vision, do you feel it's a waste to get the T-1 if it's only marginally more expensive than the H-1? I'd like to think I got the best optic, but I feel as though having to turn the dial (7, I think?) times before a dot appears might get a little "annoying." From what I understand, the first 6/7 clicks of the dial are night vision, and then it turns to a red dot visible to the naked eye.

I prefer the 2's, with a bunch of that being due to major eye issues. THe reality is the 4 Moa Micro's were actually 3.4 (don't ask me why rounding up seemed like a good idea) as they had the same LED emitter as the bigger 2 MOA sights that ended up with a little bigger dot in the smaller T1 body. Truthfully, your eye really can't tell difference. Where you can see the difference is when magnified or using night vision. Due to their mission a NSW asset wanted the 2 MOA dot in the Micro and the 2 MOA micros now have a unique emitter to get that size.

As far as models of the Micro. I prefer the T1 as it has better coatings on the lenses as part of the requirements for military use and NVG capability. I usually use the H1's for applications like shotguns, MP-5's, AK's, etc. Essentially, anything other than an AR. On my AR's and AUG's I use the T1's. The price difference is about 70 bucks...its up to the end user if divable (H1 is still waterproof to 15 ft.) and the NVG capability is worth it.

Bang for the buck in red dots......the PRO is the best deal out there of anybody's red dot for the price, ruggedness and capability.

As far as some of the "why". The Aimpoints are run with an LED. The EoTech is run with a laser. The good thing about a laser is they can make different shapes projected onto the screen for various reticules. The LED can only do a dot. The positive, the dot is the simplest, fastest thing for the eye to pick up. Lasers pull a bunch of power, and they are fragile. LED's run cold, pull almost no power and are very rugged. Additionally, all of the adjustments on the Aimpoint are mechanical and both audible and tactile for operation in bad conditions when the hands may be wet cold, etc. Mechanical adjustment versus electronic also holds a much better zero in adverse conditions (impact, extreme temperature changes, etc.).

hope this helps.

 

[WR Moore]

Nice to have information from the horses mouth.

Agree with the evaluation of the PRO. Now if they just could have made the mount clamp knob a wee bit smaller.........