Aimpoints or Red Dots

I have a Holosun SCS on my G19 Gen 5 MOS and a Holosun 507 X2 G on my M&P 5.7 and G43x MOS. Absolutely love them. Green Dots are much easier to see and acquire in a hurry. I had my G43x slide modified to accept a direct bolt on (no adapter plate) I prefer Holosun 507K because of the shake awake feature. The Holosun dots do not require removal to change out battery. (re-zeroing required if removed) Although I've had mine over a year and battery still going good. I carry the 43x everywhere.
 
Dot sights are probably the greatest crutch you can put on a gun. NOT for a concealed carry piece that must be employed fast, teaching CCW since 1996, and they just slow you down too much.

But for targets, fun, gaming, and most shooting events they solve lots of problems and make groups smaller.

Green is seen my the eye much better, does not matter if it is a dot sight or a laser, the human eye sees it better day or night. That said, a green dot looking over a light works very well at night.

I have no suggestion of brand, but size is a big deal. Find the smallest device you can, it also matters when you try to find a holster, the bigger they are the harder they are to carry.

Dots are not a substitute for lasers. Lasers are for nights and dim light only. As to lasers, green is also the best, again based on the human eye nothing else.

I have several and used them over the years, mostly for targets and plinking and all are red. I also have one of the Green Viridian dot sights that came as a free rebate recently from Smith and Wesson. I placed it on my new M and P 5.7 x 28. I fired it as recently as 2 days ago and it is a great addition for target shooting. At night it is also an excellent addition when supplemented by security lighting or a light on the gun. The Green Viridian dot sights sell for $250-$279. I do not think cost or brand is much of a consideration. I have $40 dot sights that are 15 years old that have never failed, just saying. If you are new to dot sights, might start with an inexpensive one. There are dozens and dozens that get great reviews, it is just part of the technology explosion, they can make good stuff cheap when they sell it in volume.

Last comment. Like anything you add to a handgun, being able to use the handgun with only one hand is what separates value in a defensive shooting. Most robberies, home invasions and such require you to have a light, a phone, or other object in your off hand and your best opportunity to survive is firing with only one hand. Usually they are close and you do not have time to use the sights, however, if you do need the sights, one hand firing is what tells you the value of any sight, especially the dot sight. I find the dot sights slow me down a lot when firing one hand, in fact studies have shown, they slow down everyone with 2 hands, so they will naturally be slower with one hand in a defensive shooting.

To the contrary we are now seeing them on police guns, for a very different reason. Too many innocents have been shot by police, lots in New York. So, they are forcing cops to use dot sights, which requires them to take more time and make better shots, and that does make sense, it protects innocent people and saves lawsuits against police. Again, it slows them down and makes them get a better sight picture before firing.

FWIW
 
Dot sights are probably the greatest crutch you can put on a gun. NOT for a concealed carry piece that must be employed fast, teaching CCW since 1996, and they just slow you down too much.

*snip*

To the contrary we are now seeing them on police guns, for a very different reason. Too many innocents have been shot by police, lots in New York. So, they are forcing cops to use dot sights, which requires them to take more time and make better shots, and that does make sense, it protects innocent people and saves lawsuits against police. Again, it slows them down and makes them get a better sight picture before firing.


Here we go again... :rolleyes:

Your statement suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of how a dot should be used on a defensive/combat handgun, and the benefits it provides. And law enforcement is NOT using dots to slow cops down. Dots are being used to improve performance.

The primary benefit of a dot is allowing a threat focused sight picture... you never focus on the dot, like you would on a front sight and you keep both eyes open. Shooters are slower when first transitioning because they are still in the habit of bringing their focus back to the gun, looking for the front sight. Once you attain competence with a handgun mounted optic, you will be faster because you are only looking at the target. The problem is it takes time to break long ingrained habits/skills and the longer you have been shooting, the more time it takes. Many don't have the patience, or fail to put in the time.

As an LE instructor since the 1990s, I've seen a lot of fads come and go. Handgun optics are not one of them. We got serious about the training a few years before I retired. In those few years I taught several hundred LE shooters to use dot sights, both in basic academy and in-service training, and I have personally observed that speed and accuracy was improved in almost every case.

For anyone interested in why dot sights work, and how they can improve your shooting, I suggest reading Aaron Cowan's white paper on the subject: http://www.kentuckytacticalofficers.../sage_dynamics_pistol_red_dot_white_paper.pdf
 
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""Anyway, good advice and varying opinions, but from my observations, Trijicon or Holosun are two I’d look at.""

I was going to look at the Olight> I have one of their keychain flashlights that has lasted 5+ years. The warranty is fantastic as are the reviews
 
Here we go again... :rolleyes:

Your statement demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of how a dot should be used on a defensive/combat handgun, and the benefits it provides. And law enforcement is NOT using dots to slow cops down. Dots are being used to improve performance.

The primary benefit of a dot is allowing a threat focused sight picture... you never focus on the dot, like you would on a front sight and you keep both eyes open. Shooters are slower when first transitioning because they are still in the habit of bringing their focus back to the gun, looking for the front sight. Once you attain competence with a handgun mounted optic, you will be faster because you are only looking at the target. The problem is it takes time to break long ingrained habits/skills and the longer you have been shooting, the more time it takes. Many don't have the patience, or fail to put in the time.

As an LE instructor since the 1990s, I've seen a lot of fads come and go. Handgun optics are not one of them. We got serious about the training a few years before I retired. In those few years I taught several hundred LE shooters to use dot sights, both in basic academy and in-service training, and I have personally observed that speed and accuracy was improved in almost every case.

For anyone interested in why dot sights work, and how they can improve your shooting, I suggest reading Aaron Cowan's white paper on the subject: http://www.kentuckytacticalofficers.../sage_dynamics_pistol_red_dot_white_paper.pdf
Spot on brother.

I’m living proof that they work.

I researched them for over a year. Read many articles. Watched many videos. Asked a lot of questions. And shot other people’s guns.

I don’t see the sights well and my hands shake a little. The red dot corrected that.

The only problem I have is finding the dot from the draw. But I'm getting better after only 400 rounds.

I’ll get there with more practice.
 
""Anyway, good advice and varying opinions, but from my observations, Trijicon or Holosun are two I’d look at.""

I was going to look at the Olight> I have one of their keychain flashlights that has lasted 5+ years. The warranty is fantastic as are the reviews
I have several Olight products. I wouldn’t recommend them if I thought they were junk.

I have a light on my Mossberg. One on my Glock 19. And 6 or 7 flashlights. And now the Osight.
 
I still use irons on range toys and field pieces, where conditions are more controlled and I can wear the right glasses. Defensive pieces are gradually tensioning to a red dot (or holographic sigh), where I can see and dot an entire target unobscured by Patridge-type sights. A little more certainty in a world of predators with a supporting cast of criminal-loving activists and gun-hating Soros-prosecutors.
 
The reason I asked about hunting or target shooting was because a couple of us in college used to squirrel hunt with our .22 pistols. I used my Ruger Mk1 5.5" bull barrel and my buddy used his High Standard (don't remember the model but it was a nice one). We did a lot of practicing, finding out what ammo shot best in our pistols and we had a lot of fun. Not a lot of squirrels came home with us. We did find out somethings about how hard it can be to sneak up on squirrels. We felt the need to get closer and it's nearly as exciting as deer hunting at times.

We were head shot guys. Iron sights were good when we were in our twenties. Not so much now. If I were going to try it these days it would be the smallest dot I could get so I could see the squirrels head around the dot. Some things aren't easy, but they're still fun.
 
Red dots do require that the shooter know the vertical mechanical offset for various distances, due to bullet drop, as does use of irons or scopes. Typically distance accuracy by many red dot users does markedly improve over irons. Dots aren't magic; time and effort is required to learn to use them well.

Too small a dot can cause difficulty, as well as too big a dot; depends on the application. For a rifle, a 1 MOA with a 30 MOA circle works for many. For a handgun, something around a 3 MOA dot works for most as a best middle ground for ample accuracy and quick acquisition. Some see the more common red color better than green; try both. The background you typically work against should also be considered in color choice.
 
I’m a little slow getting into the 21st Century and mostly go for big orange or green dot front sights. But… I bought a Shield SMSc for a G43x several years back. Didn’t work with it much cause I couldn’t stand the gun it was mounted in. I’ve since picked up an Sig 365XL cut for red dot but haven’t got that far yet. Nothing else in my collection has the slide cut. Anyway, good advice and varying opinions, but from my observations, Trijicon or Holosun are two I’d look at. They seem to have the best street reputation. For a rimfire, it may not matter as much, but I’d still lean toward one of either.
I like Holosun I have two on two Glocks and they work fine. Both are battery and solar. I also have Swampfox Justice II on my Glock and Springfield Echelon and and Leopold Delta Pro and Vortex Defender CCW on my Carry Glock 48. The trick to using a Dot pistol with either red or green is to focus on the target and spot you want to shoot at. If your dot is zeroed correctly you should be very close to the spot on the target. Don't focus on the dot it is going to were it is zeroed focus on the target thru the glass. Also I like as large of opening that works with the firearm.
 
I like Holosun I have two on two Glocks and they work fine. Both are battery and solar. I also have Swampfox Justice II on my Glock and Springfield Echelon and and Leopold Delta Pro and Vortex Defender CCW on my Carry Glock 48. The trick to using a Dot pistol with either red or green is to focus on the target and spot you want to shoot at. If your dot is zeroed correctly you should be very close to the spot on the target. Don't focus on the dot it is going to were it is zeroed focus on the target thru the glass. Also I like as large of opening that works with the firearm.
When I bought the Shield SMSc for my Glock 43x, I noted it had the biggest window. I’d also looked at the available Trijicons and Holosuns the shop has. Both of the models they showed me seemed to have glass distortion. The Shield was clear. Anyway, it wasn’t the dot as much as it was the gun I mounted it on. The smallest gun I carried professionally was a G43. I don’t mind the way it shot. I was a bit disappointed with the 43x, however. I have arthritis and some tissue damage in my strong hand and a few rounds from the 43x went a long way. I ended up going with the 365, and at present, standard pressure Gold Dots. As said, my 365xl is cut, but I haven’t had the time to mess with optics. Might put the Shield on it if it will fit… for now anyway.

I took the Buildibg Shooters class a while back from Dustin Salomon. Among other concepts, it is based on visual stimulation. It got me wondering if, with iron sights, teaching shooters to focus on the front sight causes them not to see the rest of the picture, ie, a bad guy dropping his gun, someone wondering in between, etc. There were several red do shooters in the class, but I didn’t focus on how they were doing compared to me. So my attitude is slowly changing.
 
Here we go again... :rolleyes:

Your statement suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of how a dot should be used on a defensive/combat handgun, and the benefits it provides. And law enforcement is NOT using dots to slow cops down. Dots are being used to improve performance.

The primary benefit of a dot is allowing a threat focused sight picture... you never focus on the dot, like you would on a front sight and you keep both eyes open. Shooters are slower when first transitioning because they are still in the habit of bringing their focus back to the gun, looking for the front sight. Once you attain competence with a handgun mounted optic, you will be faster because you are only looking at the target. The problem is it takes time to break long ingrained habits/skills and the longer you have been shooting, the more time it takes. Many don't have the patience, or fail to put in the time.

As an LE instructor since the 1990s, I've seen a lot of fads come and go. Handgun optics are not one of them. We got serious about the training a few years before I retired. In those few years I taught several hundred LE shooters to use dot sights, both in basic academy and in-service training, and I have personally observed that speed and accuracy was improved in almost every case.

For anyone interested in why dot sights work, and how they can improve your shooting, I suggest reading Aaron Cowan's white paper on the subject: http://www.kentuckytacticalofficers.../sage_dynamics_pistol_red_dot_white_paper.pdf


You are basically correct to a point. The liability of officers hitting innocent people with multiple wild rounds, particularly in New York City was/is a driving force in why administrators are trying dot sights. They force the officer to get that sight picture in the window, sometimes they even show up on body cams. That puts the officer in a box, if he fires wildly and hits an innocent, he is likely to be fired as well as sued and so on. The department gets sued too, of course. Every lawsuit in federal courts require all interested or likely parties to be joined into the lawsuit.

So, the dot sight "requires" a sight picture within the frame of the dot device. That is usually slower. Your opinion and others may say it is faster, but others including me as a former trainer disagree. the "threat focused sight picture" is a good concept, but in my view is more for center of mass firing. As a federal agent long ago, that is too broad, in the one hostage case I had, a head or shoulder shot was the only rational option, the dot will work for that, and is certainly faster than a iron sight device, and may be the cat's meow for those events. That said, from the legal perspective, the dot sight was a method for preventing lawsuits against the department, and the officer's safety was not the top issue.

Whether it made a difference in the New York problem, I do not know, I am not aware of any New York City officers going to dot sights. If you have that information please post a link.

The white paper by Sage Dynamics exists for exactly one purpose, to sell dot sights to law enforcement and the paper reflects that. Whether they are best for a CCW event is not addressed by their paper at all.

Sage Dynamics is selling a product or program note what they recommend:

"Once a department has decided to approve the use of MRDS for duty handguns, a program must be created to transition from iron sights on officer handguns. It is the recommendation of Sage Dynamics that a department not make MRDS duty carry mandatory for all officers. As officer time on duty and time to retirement are always considerations, it will be more cost effective and less disruptive for departments to make MRDS use optional for all currently sworn officers."

Their white paper is great but limited to officers and very strictly requires things like both hands on the gun for a proper sight picture. This is very differy nt from a CCW student who will likely face a situation with only one hand on the gun, light or phone or dog on a leash or pushing kids out of the hallway is likely. Or perhaps a mugging or robbery in a parking lot. That dot sight on a CCW gun, held in one hand is slower.....try it.

I have several guns with dot sights and have for maybe 20 years. The most recent is the M and P 5.7 x 28, a cool little gun that you can shoot to 75-100 yards, but it is not for carry or self defense issues. As a trail gun it certainly would work for defensive uses, but when a concealed carry gun, which will normally be fired with one hand at near distances is involved, it is a big chunk of stuff on top of your gun when you are hurriedly trying to get it out to survive.

Forget pocket carry and remember, it can hand up on a seat belt if you try a cross draw of even strong side draw. There are lots of draw backs to a big 1 inch or more box on top of the gun you need out in a hurry.

Just saying, the needs of saving your life with a quick handgun on your body is very different from trying to cut down on lawsuits caused by stray rounds fired by officers.

That is all.

And when you are refencing a gun used in a combat/police scenario, I have been in all of those rolls, 6 years Army MP, and 18 years Air Force, OSI and others and local and state law enforcement. Been there, done that for decades. I do not believe I have that fundamental misunderstanding you suggest. We have all been different places and see different events, which effects our opinions.
 
You are basically correct to a point. The liability of officers hitting innocent people with multiple wild rounds, particularly in New York City was/is a driving force in why administrators are trying dot sights. They force the officer to get that sight picture in the window, sometimes they even show up on body cams. That puts the officer in a box, if he fires wildly and hits an innocent, he is likely to be fired as well as sued and so on. The department gets sued too, of course. Every lawsuit in federal courts require all interested or likely parties to be joined into the lawsuit.

So, the dot sight "requires" a sight picture within the frame of the dot device. That is usually slower. Your opinion and others may say it is faster, but others including me as a former trainer disagree. the "threat focused sight picture" is a good concept, but in my view is more for center of mass firing. As a federal agent long ago, that is too broad, in the one hostage case I had, a head or shoulder shot was the only rational option, the dot will work for that, and is certainly faster than a iron sight device, and may be the cat's meow for those events. That said, from the legal perspective, the dot sight was a method for preventing lawsuits against the department, and the officer's safety was not the top issue.

Whether it made a difference in the New York problem, I do not know, I am not aware of any New York City officers going to dot sights. If you have that information please post a link.

The white paper by Sage Dynamics exists for exactly one purpose, to sell dot sights to law enforcement and the paper reflects that. Whether they are best for a CCW event is not addressed by their paper at all.

Sage Dynamics is selling a product or program note what they recommend:

"Once a department has decided to approve the use of MRDS for duty handguns, a program must be created to transition from iron sights on officer handguns. It is the recommendation of Sage Dynamics that a department not make MRDS duty carry mandatory for all officers. As officer time on duty and time to retirement are always considerations, it will be more cost effective and less disruptive for departments to make MRDS use optional for all currently sworn officers."

Their white paper is great but limited to officers and very strictly requires things like both hands on the gun for a proper sight picture. This is very differy nt from a CCW student who will likely face a situation with only one hand on the gun, light or phone or dog on a leash or pushing kids out of the hallway is likely. Or perhaps a mugging or robbery in a parking lot. That dot sight on a CCW gun, held in one hand is slower.....try it.

I have several guns with dot sights and have for maybe 20 years. The most recent is the M and P 5.7 x 28, a cool little gun that you can shoot to 75-100 yards, but it is not for carry or self defense issues. As a trail gun it certainly would work for defensive uses, but when a concealed carry gun, which will normally be fired with one hand at near distances is involved, it is a big chunk of stuff on top of your gun when you are hurriedly trying to get it out to survive.

Forget pocket carry and remember, it can hand up on a seat belt if you try a cross draw of even strong side draw. There are lots of draw backs to a big 1 inch or more box on top of the gun you need out in a hurry.

Just saying, the needs of saving your life with a quick handgun on your body is very different from trying to cut down on lawsuits caused by stray rounds fired by officers.

That is all.

And when you are refencing a gun used in a combat/police scenario, I have been in all of those rolls, 6 years Army MP, and 18 years Air Force, OSI and others and local and state law enforcement. Been there, done that for decades. I do not believe I have that fundamental misunderstanding you suggest. We have all been different places and see different events, which effects our opinions.
I appreciate your experience and reference to the White Paper. Several years back after I had retired from a three-letter and was working an LE “retirement” job, I had several fellow retirees enthusiastic about the dots and referred me the paper. Me being somewhat of a tightwad, I didn’t see spending a lot of extra change on an optic for a concealed carry pistol, where, in my world, the operative word was “concealed.” The best aftermarket pistol sights I ever used were the Heinie Straight Eights and Ledges. I teach concealed carry classes in a state requiring live fire qualification, I still see students with iron sights shooting incredibly tight groups with minimal training or experience, and others, not so much with any sighting system. My carry guns today either have aftermarket big orange, dots, the big green dots my Sigs came with, or orange nail polish.

Anyway, my take on that paper was what sights held up better than others when dropping pistols.

The entity from which I retired allowed for red dot sight on carbines with backup irons, but would not allow red dots on pistols for myriad or reasons, to include lazy agents not taking care of their equipment or keeping batteries fresh. It was bad enough with WMLs that used 123 batteries came out and official recommendations were to change batteries once a month or after every op. Bean counters resisted cause 123s were not cheap.

A lot of the state and local LE agencies are basing their entry level handgun training on issued Glocks with red dots, either factory cut or aftermarket cut slides. I’m not sure how much this takes away from real marksmanship training. And if one has a red dot that requires removal to access the battery, then re-zero, that’s not always practical.

While I’m not totally against technology, if that big EMP they’re always talking about ever hits, there’s going to be a lot of worthless junk attached to defensive weapons. Then again, maybe there was a Royal Sergeant Major once upon a time who had similar reservations when his Brown Bess was phased out for rifles with sights.
 
The reason I asked about hunting or target shooting was because a couple of us in college used to squirrel hunt with our .22 pistols. I used my Ruger Mk1 5.5" bull barrel and my buddy used his High Standard (don't remember the model but it was a nice one). We did a lot of practicing, finding out what ammo shot best in our pistols and we had a lot of fun. Not a lot of squirrels came home with us. We did find out somethings about how hard it can be to sneak up on squirrels. We felt the need to get closer and it's nearly as exciting as deer hunting at times.

We were head shot guys. Iron sights were good when we were in our twenties. Not so much now. If I were going to try it these days it would be the smallest dot I could get so I could see the squirrels head around the dot. Some things aren't easy, but they're still fun.


The Rugers are still the gun by which accuracy is judged. Some of these new ones are pretty close if not better.

In the last 2 years, I bought both the M and P 22 mag and M and P 5.7 x 28 just for that purpose. The 5.7 I put the green viridian dot on and it works great. The 5.7 also is threaded for the suppressor so I get some noise reduction for hunting, and at least it is hearing safe. Have not actually hunted with it yet, but the accuracy is pretty good.

The 22 mag I have had nearly 2 years and it is probably a better gun for small game. The accuracy is incredible and would head shoot rabbits and squirrels if you have that ability. I have not placed a dot sight on it, but I may. I do have a green laser on it which works on overcast days and nights of course. The 22 mag version is not designed for the suppressor, so that is a downside. But the accuracy is just crazy accurate, maybe 1 inch at 25 yards. And without recoil and you can shoot them all day. The 22 mag holds 30 rounds in the mag, the 5.7 holds 22, and neither have recoil that you would notice.

I have several 22s set up for the suppressor and suitable for hunting and have killed many critters with them, the suppressor is a wonderful addition for any hunting.

So, yes dot sights are great on these rimfires and flat shooters.
 
I’ve resisted optics on any firearm that I deemed unnecessary. I’ve decided to set up a S&W 41 barrel with a red dot. The only quality one I’ve had experience with is the Ultra Dot, Match Dot on a S&W 41. It impressed me. And I know guys that have several handguns and can’t hit a bull in the butt with irons, not even rested. The red dots have them at least on target now. When they were in Scope Mode they would actually back up to find something to rest on. Many times critters didn’t wait for them to get comfortable.
Just in last couple weeks bought a Holosun and Match Dot. Both these are tube type sights. I have buddy who is RO at a big range in Florida. Just been emailing about tube type and reflex type. He says Burris Fast Fire is the most bang for the buck. It’s in $150-$175 class. Surfing today I’m looking at SIG Romeo 3 at $65. Also with good reputation. I’m not interested in bullseye. More towards plinking and steel challenge. I know from past experience with cheap reflexes that they are quicker to get on target than tube type.
Pic of buddies new outfit with Burris Fast Fire. Think I’ll order up the SIG Romeo to see how they compare. IMG_5728.png
 
I appreciate your experience and reference to the White Paper. Several years back after I had retired from a three-letter and was working an LE “retirement” job, I had several fellow retirees enthusiastic about the dots and referred me the paper. Me being somewhat of a tightwad, I didn’t see spending a lot of extra change on an optic for a concealed carry pistol, where, in my world, the operative word was “concealed.” The best aftermarket pistol sights I ever used were the Heinie Straight Eights and Ledges. I teach concealed carry classes in a state requiring live fire qualification, I still see students with iron sights shooting incredibly tight groups with minimal training or experience, and others, not so much with any sighting system. My carry guns today either have aftermarket big orange, dots, the big green dots my Sigs came with, or orange nail polish.

Anyway, my take on that paper was what sights held up better than others when dropping pistols.

The entity from which I retired allowed for red dot sight on carbines with backup irons, but would not allow red dots on pistols for myriad or reasons, to include lazy agents not taking care of their equipment or keeping batteries fresh. It was bad enough with WMLs that used 123 batteries came out and official recommendations were to change batteries once a month or after every op. Bean counters resisted cause 123s were not cheap.

A lot of the state and local LE agencies are basing their entry level handgun training on issued Glocks with red dots, either factory cut or aftermarket cut slides. I’m not sure how much this takes away from real marksmanship training. And if one has a red dot that requires removal to access the battery, then re-zero, that’s not always practical.

While I’m not totally against technology, if that big EMP they’re always talking about ever hits, there’s going to be a lot of worthless junk attached to defensive weapons. Then again, maybe there was a Royal Sergeant Major once upon a time who had similar reservations when his Brown Bess was phased out for rifles with sights.


I think we all learned from the 3 letter agencies at different points in time, and they changed. I worked a lot of task force assignments and saw may changes, the FBI had the model 13, then the model 66, then the Glock, then the 10mm, then the Glock again, that I worked with. The IRS guys had the 2.5 inch SW model 19 as did the State Dept Security guys. When I went thru the DEA class, they carried everything, not sure they had a standard. The Texas Ranger Gang Task Force Guys always had the 1911s around, and they always carried two of them. Everybody was an expert and had the best, and then they all changed. Go figure.

At one time I was a big dot fan for CCW and put them on J frames like the 640 I carried for years. I found the big dot did not really work well for me, so I took it off and went to lasers.

Now, I have 4 of them, wheel guns with short barrels, I just use plain sights for days and CT laser groups for night use. The laser comes one when I grip the gun, so it does not matter. It I need it fine, if not I ignore it.

On pistols, I carry Glocks in winter, and they all have night sights. You lose night vision after the first shot, but at least you can aim if you need to. I am aware that the white paper and others have indicated night sights do not matter much for police, but I have used them in the dark and it gives you one shot when you cannot even see the irons. So, I buy them and put them on the Glock and any I might carry at night.

As to long guns, I like a tritium front sight on shotguns and ARs. I have never had to employ them, but I have been on manhunts and I have had bears in camp at night. It is nice to know where the front of your long gun is in darkness. Some may laugh but when a bear is whoofing around at 30 feet, you really want to know where the front of the gun is while you watch that tree line. LOL

Same with manhunts in the woods. I have had both shotguns and a Mini 14 for that use and neither had night sights. Sneaking around the woods looking for some guy with a gun, is not fun. If I did it again all would have tritium night sights and lasers.

It only matters what works for us and the risk we take. Dot sights seem to work for most, I just do not like them on the small concealed guns.
 

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