ALWAYS COUNT - IT BECOMES INSTINCT AFTER A WHILE

[Model 15-4ever]

With revolvers, we were always taught to count rounds. After awhile it becomes unconscious and automatic. Revolvers reload relatively slowly, so knowing when you are running low or out is important.

Having said that, experience has shown that the ability to count past 6 or 7 rounds gets lost quickly in a stress situation. What works for a revolver, or a 7-shot autoloader, in a gunfight isn't practical with a larger capacity pistol. You shoot to lockback and quickly reload, or wait for a lull and top off.

I competed regularly - and placed - in USPSA for about 5-6 years, in both Limited 10 and Single-Stack. USPSA is a game: the only stress there is self-imposed. You have the luxury of pre-viewing the entire stage of fire, and planning your magazine changes to minimize time (and therefore maximize your score). You are neither shot at, nor maneuvered against. What gamers do while gaming isn't too relevant for this topic.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

We are talking about Training Issues and some of us were trained in the 1960s and others in the past year. Totally different firearm platforms too.

Of course some training were a week or three, FBI Agents four months and others had a six month Police Academy.

 

[Narragansett]

When my Dad taught me to shoot ... he instructed ... "count your shot's "
valuable lesson ... you need to know how many rounds are left in your gun . Nothing worse than taking aim ... getting a perfect sight picture and then ...
" CLICK "
Gary

As you flinch anticipating a recoil that is not there.

 

[Brian Parrish]

We are talking about Training Issues and some of us were trained in the 1960s and others in the past year. Totally different firearm platforms too.

Of course some training were a week or three, FBI Agents four months and others had a six month Police Academy.

Truth.
I would also add the different doctrine because of scientific research. In the 1980's I sincerely thought that some calibers were insufficient, hence the FBI testing and the 10mm and eventually the 40 S&W development. There was however, an important paper circulated in the Bureau regarding "Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness". I have it around here somewheres...

On another old laptop I think...

Handgun wounds work in three ways:
1. Nervous system destruction. Perp drops instantly. It happens.
2. Blood loss. This takes time. The man may go right down due to emotional fainting, but he might fight for another minute, enough time to assure you die with him.
3. Tissue destruction. This is highly debatable, but the idea is, regardless of "shot placement", which is primarily left to chance, the guy moves after all, the idea is that a certain amount of "tissue destruction" will induce trauma which will incapacitate even if no major artery or nervous system is severed. How much tissue? Well two 17 round mags of 9mm will be more than enough.
_______________________________
OK I found it on the internet archive. I need to read it again as I have all this reading mixed together in my mind.

Full text of "fbi handgun wounding factors and effectiveness"

 

[pasound]

For years I shot only 6 or 5 round single and double actions. Then got my first semi-auto - 7 shots. Kept counting. Now I have 10, 12, 15, 17 round magazines and guns. Not even counting my 10, 15 and 25 round mags for my Ruger rifles... Sometimes I wait for the slide to lock back, and forget that 10-22's don't lock back.

 

[GnarlsR2]

The only time I count rounds is when I’m watching a movie where the guy is shooting what appears to be a Colt 1911. When he gets to 11 rounds I assume he reloaded during the commercial break.

The human brain can only process one thought at any given moment in time. Even if I was highly trained and practiced counting for years at the range, during a life or death shoot out my training, practice, muscle memory, and instinct would disappear like a flea fart in a hurricane.

In a real 5-second self-defense incident after firing my handgun, I will most likely have two consecutive thoughts, one – why is my gun out of ammo?, and two – do I need to change my pants?

 

[BE Mike]

Having watched some more current LEO's shoot in actual situations, it looks like a lot of them shoot so many rounds so fast that they wouldn't have any idea how many rounds that they fired. It also makes me wonder if they think that volume of fire is more important than the ability to fire one accurate shot.

 

[rockquarry]

Having watched some more current LEO's shoot in actual situations, it looks like a lot of them shoot so many rounds so fast that they wouldn't have any idea how many rounds that they fired. It also makes me wonder if they think that volume of fire is more important than the ability to fire one accurate shot.

It appears that's the way many shoot nowadays and perhaps the primary reason pistols with huge magazine capacities are popular. I see these people at our gun club shooting or maybe practicing as quickly as they can empty a magazine at 3,5,7, and (long range) 10 yds. Maybe they can count fast.

 

[GnarlsR2]

Depending upon whose study and what police department, on average officers hit their target less than 30% of the time. Some studies show they hit their target 56% of the time.

Assuming that police officers encounter more stressful situations and have more frequent training than the average American citizen who carries a defense firearm, is it likely that the average carrying American may hit their target LESS than the police department studies?

 

[Ματθιας]

I don't think anybody was counting rounds...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZPplp7wGso[/ame]

 

[GnarlsR2]

Geezzz.. that cop needs to up his meds!!

 

[chief38]

Counting rounds just comes naturally.
I mean, after all you need to know.
I’m only speaking of target shooting and range shooting.

Most here have never been in a gun fight so we can only hope if that day ever comes, counting rounds will follow through as well.