Am I missing missing the mexican boat here? DEPUTY SHOT in Desert

[BUFF]

"Nowadays, the border functions like the safety valve on a pressure cooker. It keeps Mexico from exploding.
If we ever truly close the border, and all the money they send home or the hope of a better life here is no longer available, look for big troubles in Mexico.
It will make the Somalia of the 1990's look like a resort.
Think about it."

In the short term, that might be bad, but in the long term, until the people of Mexico get more honest, less corrupt government, nothing will change, and most Mexicans will have no good reasons to stay in Mexico.

Mexico needs another revolution. The sooner the safety valve triggers that explosion, the better.

 

[Beemer-mark]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/24/advocates-vow-challenge-arizona-immigration-law/
Arizona makes it illegal to be illegal?
That one right there by itself has me scratching my head.
I mean, good for them but does one have to pass further legislation to make committing a crime MORE illegal?

For misdemeanor crimes the illegal has to be turned over to ICE. ICE does not prosecute, doesn't do anything. For example, while in Phoenix on vacation, I was rear ended by a car full of illegals. No plates, no insurance, no ID, no nothing. Cop wrote them a ticket and away they went to run into someone else. What would happen to you if you got in a car accident with no registration, no driver license and no insurance? Do you think you would drive away?

My daughter is a federal LEO on the east coast. No driver license, no fishing license, no ID so what. They don't speak English, or pretend not too which she stops them for a misdemeanor. She can do two things - spend most of her shift hauling them in, doing the paper work, booking them and then calling ICE. ICE then lets them go. The second thing she can do is walk away. What do you think she does.

She used to try booking them. After ICE releases them they immediately head to an immigrant advocacy group to file charges that they were abused.

The illegals know all this and play it for all it's worth.

The federal government will not enforce the law. So AZ has made it a state crime.

 

[perrazi]

bring to army back from mid-east. put them on the border to shoot anyone trying to cross illegal. armor and helos also. if the drug cartels want to start shooting, they can find out first hand what the rest of the world already knows.

 

[Arizona Commander]

Reality Check

The law is reactive, if those sneaking across our border were all coming here to be law abiding, contributing members of American society and lead productive lives this would likely never have been an issue in the first place.

This is not a new problem, Arizona has been dealing with it for decades and we have repeatedly asked for assistance from Washington, whose job it is, and have received nothing but lip service.

It is Arizona's schools, hospitals, social programs and economy that are suffering, it is Arizona's citizens being robbed, raped and murdered and it is Arizona's taxpayers footing the bill for our clogged courts, jails and prisons.

This law is not just about illegal Mexicans; it is all persons here illegally. It just so happens that by geography the vast majority of those affected will be Mexican Nationals.

This is not just an Arizona problem it is an America problem. The majority of the drugs flowing into cities across America, with all of their associated ills, began their trip at an unprotected Arizona border crossing.

There was no existing Arizona state law making it illegal to be here illegally, there was only the federal law which they refuse to actively enforce. When local LE did identify someone as being here illegaly all they could do was turn them over to the feds who more often than not released them.

There is no provision in the law for LE to approach otherwise law abiding citizens and demand they present their papers, no matter what they look like. It comes into play when in the course of their duties they develop "reasonable suspicion" that an individual they are already engaged with may be in the country illegally. They are then required to determine their status in this country, if they refuse to do so they may be sued and can face civil penalties, no more sanctuary cities.

Is this new law the ideal solution, I think not.. but Arizona is at least determined to do SOMETHING. If the federal government has a better solution quit talking and roll it out. My 2 cents...SEAL THE BORDERS IMMEDIATLY, both of them, with troops if necessary. As LE comes into contact with illegal's, identify them, if they are engaged in criminal activity or previously convicted felons deport them, if not identify them and require them to initiate a process of legalization to be completed in an appropriately determined time frame at their own cost, if they do not deport them.

 

[george minze]

Well said..........Can't elaborate on your post one bit.....A-one

 

[oldman45]

There are times I do not like my own opinions so I am not going to get upset over others disagreeing with me on this.

Drug runners need shooting. Some people need shooting and that may not be politically correct but it is factual.

People coming over here to work hard for low wages makes good workers (No, I do not employ any). There have been many instances where illegals did work that Americans would not. Recently a company re-roofed my home with about 20 Mexicans. They tore off and replaced 5900 feet of roofing in six hours. Once the job was done, I could not find a piece of trash or roofing nails on the yard. Americans would have made a three day job of it.

Now that I have said that, Unions are taking away jobs here just as the illegals are doing. They make demands for more money, more benefits and then the workers are less productive. ATT set up a plant in Mexico just to get out of Union activity. GM sent plants overseas due to excessive union demands. Foreign workers in these plants are so happy to have these jobs they actually camp out so they can start early the next day. Not long back a person could quit high school and go to work at GM making $25 per hour. They were not skilled, just union. The last I heard, counting wages and benefits a GM worker was getting right at $80 per hr for unskilled labor. Even with that type money being earned, the workers fail to show up for reasons like it was raining and I did not want to get out of bed.

How is it that an illegal can take an American workers job and it raises a storm of protests but a Union can cause jobs to be sent overseas and people blame it on the company.

I went to college for EIGHT long years to learn my profession and illegals are not going to take it over. I do not need a union, not the police union, not the UAW, Teamsters or whichever because I do my job and do it well. I am where I need to be when needed no matter the weather or other things. I was operated on for malignant cancer and in the hospital for six days with tubes in me yet I had a court trial set that I had to be in and got the dr to let me out to attend the trial. Someone had to drive me to the courthouse, push me in there in a wheel chair and I testified from the chair. American union workers would be out 12 weeks and then complain they needed more time to heal. Unions protect the employees so much that many, not all, know their union rep phone number better than they know their own.

You do not hear illegals wanting a union. They want work and willing to do it.

I am not happy about the taxpayer cost for medical attention or such but they do work.

 

[deralte]

GO ARIZONA - I'm proud of you. Just wish my state and a lot of others would do the same thing. Maybe we could kick start the Feds. It may just end up being a states rights arguement. I'm all for getting the Feds out of a lot of things - all they know is how to talk about it or tax it.

 

[afriqueart]

Land mines Dammit!

 

[Arizona Commander]

GO ARIZONA - I'm proud of you. Just wish my state and a lot of others would do the same thing. Maybe we could kick start the Feds. It may just end up being a states rights arguement. I'm all for getting the Feds out of a lot of things - all they know is how to talk about it or tax it.

Is'nt it funny that the fed wants to take over everything else but ignore securing our borders, their # 1 primary responsibility!!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

This is not a new problem, Arizona has been dealing with it for decades and we have repeatedly asked for assistance from Washington, whose job it is, and have received nothing but lip service.

We get from Washington what we send there. Arizona keeps sending Amnesty McCain to Washington.

I think the recent legislation passed in Arizona will likely serve little else but to rekindle the Bush/McCain Amnesty scheme. I would not be surprised if Obama is successful in doing so. McCain will likely say he's against it if it's before this coming election... while he's giggling behind closed doors. Be prepared for a flood of friends from south of the border.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

The problem I see is the porosity of the border. Arizona fixes the problem so we in Texas suffer as they come here. I doubt our govenor and legislators have the will to do the same thing but the poll I heard on the local news was 85% of the residents polled said they supported the same law here in Texas.

If we could just get NM and TX to go along with AZ and force them all to CA we would have the problem licked.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

People coming over here to work hard for low wages makes good workers (No, I do not employ any). There have been many instances where illegals did work that Americans would not. Recently a company re-roofed my home with about 20 Mexicans. They tore off and replaced 5900 feet of roofing in six hours. Once the job was done, I could not find a piece of trash or roofing nails on the yard. Americans would have made a three day job of it.

You are 100% correct. I used to build homes. But here is the issue. Roofing or (fill in the blank) is hard work... real hard work. You can get a hard worker from Guatemala for $6-8 bucks an hour, no benefits, no nothing. Falls down and gets hurt... adios amigo. What kind of American is going to seek that kind of work and compensation? I'll tell you what kind cuz my subs sent them out all the time. You get crack heads and thieves.

So yes, you can hire better quality workers from other countries to work for poverty wages in America. But in the end, all that does is raise the poverty rate and lower the standard of living for those who seek labor intensive employment.

 

[Beemer-mark]

People coming over here to work hard for low wages makes good workers (No, I do not employ any). There have been many instances where illegals did work that Americans would not.

Illegals are not paid less, or much less. However they are way cheaper. To hire someone legally a typical company spends $3200 a year filling out federally paper work (not state). They pay unemployment taxes, medicare, social security, etc. etc. for legal workers. They must pay overtime and abide by 1000 federal, state and locals laws. How much of this do you think they do for illegals? It ain't about Unions. I live in a state with 12 % unemployment. The state is pre-dominantly non-union. The local skilled workers have to compete with the illegals. The illegals, and thier employers, are strictly cash only. So spare me.

 

[Arizona Commander]

We get from Washington what we send there. Arizona keeps sending Amnesty McCain to Washington.

I think the recent legislation passed in Arizona will likely serve little else but to rekindle the Bush/McCain Amnesty scheme. I would not be surprised if Obama is successful in doing so. McCain will likely say he's against it if it's before this coming election... while he's giggling behind closed doors. Be prepared for a flood of friends from south of the border.

I too consider McCain to be part of the problem, once again Arizona had to do something, even if it is wrong. At the very least this will ratchet up the debate and with any hope force the fed to do SOMETHING.

 

[m657]

Not to contribute to 'thread drift'....

A few years ago I had an old shed that my INSURANCE company insisted be demolished or my rate would go up.

Granted it was ready to fall down anyway.

Simple job, a little pick up work; called the high school.
No deal, and the bureaucrat sounded nearly panicked when I asked if any after-school workers wanted to make a buck. Talk about liability etc.

I contacted the local employment office, and no one was interested in a day labor job.

I was told I couldn't take it down because I was "not a licensed contractor" [another BS issue]

The fire department was not interested in it as a trainer-fire site due to overhanging trees, another 'liability' issue.

I was disabled at the time & couldn't do the work myself.

I had spent 3 days trying to give someone a job.

A tree-farm buddy had a crew that was willing. No papers. I didn't hire.

Just by chance on the way out to the mailbox, a guy with a small yarder with a finger joint on it was driving by. We got together, he made a deal with me, and it was all down & stuffed in a large dumpster in about 2 hours.

So while I had passed up chance to hire non-documented workers, they were nearly the only choice available.

Constrains by the insurance industry, school policy, state employment office, various levels of attorneys & politicians, all conspiring to make doing a basic job impossible. How often does that affect how 'big' business has to do things?

 

[Out West]

+Cajunlawyer
++Bat Guano

To me the best thing to come out of the AZ legislation is the fear in Washington DC where the polical elites are wondering if they are loosing control of the American voter.

Out
West

 

[WC145]

Illegal is illegal, it's a simple concept that Washington doesn't seem to be able to grasp.

I'm all for Arizona taking steps to secure their border and curb crime in their state, particularly when the feds aren't bothering to. By purging the illegals Arizona will reduce it's costs for welfare, education, and health care. In addition, if they work to make Arizona a low tax burden, business friendly State while they're cleaning up the illegal immigrant mess they will enjoy an influx of new LEGAL residents and the prosperity that they'll bring. I hope the rest of the border States and then the rest of the country follow their lead.

 

[sgt.207]

Well stated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The law is reactive, if those sneaking across our border were all coming here to be law abiding, contributing members of American society and lead productive lives this would likely never have been an issue in the first place.

This is not a new problem, Arizona has been dealing with it for decades and we have repeatedly asked for assistance from Washington, whose job it is, and have received nothing but lip service.

It is Arizona's schools, hospitals, social programs and economy that are suffering, it is Arizona's citizens being robbed, raped and murdered and it is Arizona's taxpayers footing the bill for our clogged courts, jails and prisons.

This law is not just about illegal Mexicans; it is all persons here illegally. It just so happens that by geography the vast majority of those affected will be Mexican Nationals.

This is not just an Arizona problem it is an America problem. The majority of the drugs flowing into cities across America, with all of their associated ills, began their trip at an unprotected Arizona border crossing.

There was no existing Arizona state law making it illegal to be here illegally, there was only the federal law which they refuse to actively enforce. When local LE did identify someone as being here illegaly all they could do was turn them over to the feds who more often than not released them.

There is no provision in the law for LE to approach otherwise law abiding citizens and demand they present their papers, no matter what they look like. It comes into play when in the course of their duties they develop "reasonable suspicion" that an individual they are already engaged with may be in the country illegally. They are then required to determine their status in this country, if they refuse to do so they may be sued and can face civil penalties, no more sanctuary cities.

Is this new law the ideal solution, I think not.. but Arizona is at least determined to do SOMETHING. If the federal government has a better solution quit talking and roll it out. My 2 cents...SEAL THE BORDERS IMMEDIATLY, both of them, with troops if necessary. As LE comes into contact with illegal's, identify them, if they are engaged in criminal activity or previously convicted felons deport them, if not identify them and require them to initiate a process of legalization to be completed in an appropriately determined time frame at their own cost, if they do not deport them.

 

[scoutsdad]

Another day here in wonderful southern Arizona. Border Patrol caught 15 of 18 illegals. They were just doing the job US citizens wouldn't do, breaking and entering.

I got a call from the BP canine handler, the other 3 were found just south of the homestead.

My wife opened the gate for me after coming home from the annual required Wildland fire refresher course. M66 in hand.

What part of protecting the border and its citizens doesn't DC understand.

 

[Capt Steve]

So long as the money sent home to mexico by the illegals remains the largest single source of income for Mexico the problem will never go away.

It is interesting how Mexico treats the Guatamalans (and others from Central and South America), trying to enter Mexico. They are arrested detained and/or shipped back immediately.

John McCain: I've always supported amnesty but now that I am running against a conservative this new law sounds good to me and I never really considered myself a maverick...makes me want to vomit!

The best thing about the new law for me is that it is a very loud and clear wake up call for Washington. For years the feds have done nothing to deal with the problem so Arizona steps up. It is poorly written, nearly impossible to enforce and will be in court until the cows come home but at least some one is trying to do something.

Questions about "illegal", see your nearest dictionary. (o; Rant off...for now.

 

[bettis1]

The police department in my city of Irving Texas has enforced a law very similar to that in AZ for a number of years (4 or more). If the police have a RAS and interview someone (myself included) who cannot properly support their claim to citizenship, the individual is turned over to ICE for deportation. Most of these encounters occur at traffic stops but it can also occur at domestic disturbances, etc. At first there was a great outcry with protest marches, national reports in the TV and other news media but now it has died down to a non event.

Over the years we have deported many thousands of illegal aliens from our city. Today our crime rate is the lowest that it has been in the history of our city.

If you will google: "illegal immigration irving texas" you will get 25,000 hits. Read a few of them and you will get the drift.

My suggestion to AZ officials: Ignore the press...enforce the law...and it will ultimately be a non-event and your state will be better off for the effort.

Bob

 

[NCTexan]

Give me a certified ID card with holographic image and my retina scan encode. I will carry it when I go out, when I vote, when I cash a check, when I charge an item, when I'm hired for a job, when I go to the ER, and when I buy firearms.

If you don't have one... then no go on any of that. I realize the risk to freedom, but what we have now is worse.

There's no slippery slope, we're already at the bottom of the hill.

JMO

 

[DeathGrip]

Another thought is if they come here to rip off our country(not all but most),and they like to work so much(not all but most),and They want to be gangers and dope dealers(a good portion of them),as soon as they are incarcerated,Let them build the blinking wall..Then send their tired butts home.(Broken down with tales of American prison labor,....)

D.G.

 

[CH47gunner]

Give me a certified ID card with holographic image and my retina scan encode. I will carry it when I go out, when I vote, when I cash a check, when I charge an item, when I'm hired for a job, when I go to the ER, and when I buy firearms.

If you don't have one... then no go on any of that. I realize the risk to freedom, but what we have now is worse.

There's no slippery slope, we're already at the bottom of the hill.

JMO

Don't mind at all - I've got absolutely nothing to hide.
I would regret the necessity of this intrusion but, I could deal with it.

Bruce

 

[Chik a Boom]

The police department in my city of Irving Texas has enforced a law very similar to that in AZ for a number of years (4 or more). If the police have a RAS and interview someone (myself included) who cannot properly support their claim to citizenship, the individual is turned over to ICE for deportation. Most of these encounters occur at traffic stops but it can also occur at domestic disturbances, etc. At first there was a great outcry with protest marches, national reports in the TV and other news media but now it has died down to a non event.

Over the years we have deported many thousands of illegal aliens from our city. Today our crime rate is the lowest that it has been in the history of our city.

If you will google: "illegal immigration irving texas" you will get 25,000 hits. Read a few of them and you will get the drift.

My suggestion to AZ officials: Ignore the press...enforce the law...and it will ultimately be a non-event and your state will be better off for the effort.

Bob

I liked your post, Bob. Hope our Governor knows about your city. I think a lot of the local protestors of the bill are hollering before they're hurt.

 

[ect1222t]

Not Politically Correct and Proud of it!!!

bring to army back from mid-east. put them on the border to shoot anyone trying to cross illegal. armor and helos also. if the drug cartels want to start shooting, they can find out first hand what the rest of the world already knows.

Land mines Dammit!

Is'nt it funny that the fed wants to take over everything else but ignore securing our borders, their # 1 primary responsibility!!

+Cajunlawyer
++Bat Guano

To me the best thing to come out of the AZ legislation is the fear in Washington DC where the polical elites are wondering if they are loosing control of the American voter.

Out
West

Illegal is illegal, it's a simple concept that Washington doesn't seem to be able to grasp.

I'm all for Arizona taking steps to secure their border and curb crime in their state, particularly when the feds aren't bothering to. By purging the illegals Arizona will reduce it's costs for welfare, education, and health care. In addition, if they work to make Arizona a low tax burden, business friendly State while they're cleaning up the illegal immigrant mess they will enjoy an influx of new LEGAL residents and the prosperity that they'll bring. I hope the rest of the border States and then the rest of the country follow their lead.

Another day here in wonderful southern Arizona. Border Patrol caught 15 of 18 illegals. They were just doing the job US citizens wouldn't do, breaking and entering.

I got a call from the BP canine handler, the other 3 were found just south of the homestead.

My wife opened the gate for me after coming home from the annual required Wildland fire refresher course. M66 in hand.

What part of protecting the border and its citizens doesn't DC understand.

I have no problem with anyone who comes in legally. My grandparents came in through Ellis Island, learned English, took Citizenship Classes, and became citizens. Do the same, I say "welcome, brother". The problem nowdays is that they don't wnat to learn english. And we're supposed to learn spanish to accomodate them. Well, I for one am not going to bow down and kiss their worthless behinds. They have already shown their contempt of our country and for our laws by entering illegally, which I believe is a felony. You or I commit a felony, we go to prison. They get a paid trip home, plus color TV and three squares a day while they're waiting. Yes, finish the fence! Make it 50 feet high so if they fall, they kill themselves. Land mines everywhere along the border! Snipers! If they get within 100 yards of the border, take the top of their heads off. Why can't they just let every citizen over 21 be a special deputy with powers to shoot on sight anyone entering illegally or engaging in illegal activities? Apply the motto of the 101st. Airborne - "Kill them all, let God sort them out". We can no longer afford to be politically correct whimps. Islamic terrorists have been known to have come through the border from Mexico. What about the ones we DON'T know about? -Ed.

 

[BarbC]

You've got to love the South Koreans, who know border defense.

Israel's not too shabby either.

 

[bk43]

Over the years we have deported many thousands of illegal aliens from our city.

It's true that thousands have been arrested but only a tiny portion have been deported. ICE announced only a few weeks after that law was enacted that they would not even process the vast majority for possible deportation.

No matter what local police do, if ICE can't or won't deport the illegals(or can't stop them from coming right back) what's accomplished? I understand the AZ law tries to get around the ICE/federal government stumbling blocks. We'll see.

Bob

 

[bettis1]

Bob,

You are correct that a few weeks after our city ordinance was enacted the ICE did say that they would no longer pick up the illegal immigrants from our jail. However, after a brief period in which they were correctly advised that it was their duty under Federal law to accept them, ICE did resume their duties and, to the best of my knowledge, are still taking the folks who have been turned over to them.

In support of the ICE, they are severely understaffed to perform these duties if a large number of cities or states decide to actively enforce the Federal immigration laws as they currently exist.

Bob

 

[Harrison]

It's all pretty simple. Illegals vote, at least they do in parts of Texas. If they don't vote now, they will after they get amnesty, and go to the head of the line to become citizens (even though they may not speak or read English). Mexican-Americans tend to vote for a particular party, and liberal ideology. Therefore, illegal entry into the country isn't really illegal from the federal point of view. Its all about political power and getting elected.