Ammo recommendation for daughter's 38

[watsonrg]

My daughter lives in an a multi unit building in Dallas. She has her grandfather's M&P 4" revolver from 1948.

When I gave it to her she was living in a detached home. It was loaded with three Glaser safety slugs backed up by three 158 grain hollow points in case the Glasers don't stop the threat. All of that is at least twenty years old, maybe more.

I've heard pros and cons on the Glasers over the years.

Any recommendations given the parameters?

Thanks brothers.

 

[petepeterson]

Any good reputable hollowpoint will do. If she's a little sensitive to recoil, my gal has had pretty good luck with Hornady's Critical Defense Standard Pressure. I believe they're 110-gr.

 

[Erich]

Right off the bat, I'd be concerned with the different points of impact of those different types of rounds from her fixed-sight gun. Say she misses with a 158-grainer and it goes into something it ought not . . . she hasn't been practicing with these rounds and they have grossly different velocities/points of impact: my lawyer nose smells negligence in the water.

What's wrong with the Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P rounds that seem to be state-of-the-art with police these days? They're pretty easy to find and she'll be able to practice with them. And they're the rounds that are issued by a lot of police departments who still authorize wheelguns.

 

[Arik]

Right off the bat, I'd be concerned with the different points of impact of those different types of rounds from her fixed-sight gun. Say she misses with a 158-grainer and it goes into something it ought not . . . she hasn't been practicing with these rounds and they have grossly different velocities/points of impact: my lawyer nose smells negligence in the water.

What's wrong with the Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P rounds that seem to be state-of-the-art with police these days? They're pretty easy to find and she'll be able to practice with them. And they're the rounds that are issued by a lot of police departments who still authorize wheelguns.

Pretty much what Erich said. The best results are from consistency. Pick good ammo and don't mix and match. There is a plethora of excellent performing self defense ammunition to chose from. Pick one, shoot it for function and POI test. If everything works fine, which it should, then you're all set.

 

[watsonrg]

Thanks fellows.

My concerns are wall penetration (hence the Glasers) and stopping power. The revolver is loaded so the Glasers are first down the barrel.

I've heard the Glasers might not be effective against a heavy leather jacket for example.

 

[Hapworth]

Thanks fellows.

My concerns are wall penetration (hence the Glasers) and stopping power. The revolver is loaded so the Glasers are first down the barrel.

I've heard the Glasers might not be effective against a heavy leather jacket for example.

"Stopping power" is a difficult term because everyone knows what it means, but there's no real definition for or way to quantify it.

Wall penetration concerns are understandable in tight confines with family, roommates and neighbors. The rub is, any round that will generally meet industry minimums for effective penetration are going to go through walls -- there's no way around it.

Each self-defense shooting is unique; the best defense rounds may or may not do the job of stopping an attack, depending on a variety of factors, but "safety rounds" like Glasers really may or may not do the job.

They're not for me, but I can see where someone might decide that in weighing the balance of competing factors, they're an option.

In close confines with walls to worry about what's on the other side, I think it's better to choose -- as you have -- a dependable but smaller service caliber like .38 Special (versus something big bore), and opt for quality hollow points that are damaging if they hit, but in the event of a miss will slow down and fragment faster than other designs.

There are many .38 Special loads that are recommended; run a search for the legion discussions, yours -- even in its specifics -- is a question often asked here.

I've settled on Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 Special+P 135 grain hollow points.

 

[Gamecock]

Get her Remington UMC 130 Grain FMJ. Basic, cheap ammo, she can shoot a lot. Little recoil issues. Nice meplat.

Don't expect handgun bullets to do tricks.

 

[Florida J Frame]

Right off the bat, I'd be concerned with the different points of impact of those different types of rounds from her fixed-sight gun. Say she misses with a 158-grainer and it goes into something it ought not . . . she hasn't been practicing with these rounds and they have grossly different velocities/points of impact: my lawyer nose smells negligence in the water.

What's wrong with the Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P rounds that seem to be state-of-the-art with police these days? They're pretty easy to find and she'll be able to practice with them. And they're the rounds that are issued by a lot of police departments who still authorize wheelguns.

sgammo.com usually has the Gold Dots in stock. If not you can click the notify when in button and they will email you.

 

[Erich]

Get her Remington UMC 130 Grain FMJ. Basic, cheap ammo, she can shoot a lot. Little recoil issues. Nice meplat.

Don't expect handgun bullets to do tricks.

While low recoil and accuracy are good stuff, I would not recommend ball rounds for defensive purposes - I've worked on a case in which one of these 130-grain ball rounds penetrated one person and hit the person behind him.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

In an apartment building you were right to select Glasers but I understand that there COULD be issues. To avoid those issues I'd stoke that puppy with 158 grain LRNs or maybe 148 grain lead wadcutters. Easy to shoot, "nice meplat". Or, perhaps, 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters.

Walls are too easy to penetrate.

 

[Arik]

Get her Remington UMC 130 Grain FMJ. Basic, cheap ammo, she can shoot a lot. Little recoil issues. Nice meplat.

Don't expect handgun bullets to do tricks.

No definitely not magical but there are better ammo for terminal performance

 

[doc84]

Good reading here...

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

Mods,

There is an excellent read about the OP's inquiry posted as a sticky on another forum. It is written by Dr. G. Roberts and covers some excellent points about .380 acp vs .38 Spl. While it is in an LE context, it is relevant here. Is it ok to post the link?

 

[Duckford]

Glaser Safety Slugs are trash, a horrible gimmick sold to people who don't know better yet. Weight retention is a GOOD thing, and fragmentation can alone be considered failure in many handgun rounds, so fragmenting handgun bullets are basically designed to fail. Glaser, Tango, RIP, et al are all gimmicks that look cool, sell the false notion that one can certainly stop any risk of over penetration, and offer you the magic beans in exchange for the cow.

If a bullet can't punch through sheetrock, it won't have the properties necessary to punch deep enough into an attacker to kill. If it can't punch through a limb and continue on into a torso behind it, it isn't good enough. We have to live with the fact that missed shots are dangerous, and gutting out our bullets and loads is not a solution. Get into a gunfight with an attacker in your apartment, failing to stop the attacker quickly can lead to you being killed or injured, or many more shots being fired by you AND the attacker, and remember that missed shots are far more dangerous than the ones you hit with. The theory behind poor penetration as a plus is not just bad, but dangerous in its own right.

If she is going to shoot low power, don't shoot an expanding bullet, and stick with a lead wadcutter of the 148-158 grain. If higher power is desirable, choose a hollow point 135 grains or larger, full power +p. The Gold Dot is a choice, but so are many hollow points in the 158 grain range, which do very well. Never choose 110 grain bullets, and don't do 125 unless you are going to upgrade to a .357 Magnum. Even powerful .38 +p loads are a little bit on the lower power side, and heavier weight bullets will perform better.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

My daughter lives in an a multi unit building in Dallas. She has her grandfather's M&P 4" revolver from 1948.

When I gave it to her she was living in a detached home. It was loaded with three Glaser safety slugs backed up by three 158 grain hollow points in case the Glasers don't stop the threat. All of that is at least twenty years old, maybe more.

I've heard pros and cons on the Glasers over the years.

Any recommendations given the parameters?

Thanks brothers.

I'm assuming it's not rated for +P? I keep Hornady Critical Defense Lite in my 2" M&P I believe the manufacturing date on mine was in the early 30's. In any event, I trust those loads as my backup.

Should minimize overpenitration while for sure providing enough punch to do the job.

 

[Kanewpadle]

When talking handguns, there is no such think as stopping power or knock down power.

The best bet is to buy just about any premium self defense load, teach her to hit her target well, and have a home defense plan.

She should hunker down in her bedroom and wait for the bad guy. If she has to shoot in the direction of the bedroom door, where are the bullets going if she misses?

Plan ahead.

 

[watsonrg]

When talking handguns, there is no such think as stopping power or knock down power.

The best bet is to buy just about any premium self defense load, teach her to hit her target well, and have a home defense plan.

She should hunker down in her bedroom and wait for the bad guy. If she has to shoot in the direction of the bedroom door, where are the bullets going if she misses?

Plan ahead.

I'm afraid that is an issue. Every other week she has her daughters (8 and 11) in a bedroom across the hall. The entry to the apartment is between the two bedrooms. It is a bad set up.

Maybe the answer is a .410 or 20 gauge?

 

[L-2]

The questions are indicative of a serious lack of firearms tactics and whether the firearm is good as part of a home safety/security plan at this time.

Regarding just the firearm portion: education; training; practice; proficiency; weapon(s) selection; ammo selection; legal issues; willingness/understanding on use of lethal force; all are considerations.

While choosing Glaser ammo for the first two rounds shows thought and planning, it indicates to me an intent not to use lethal force, yet it could be lethal. The 3rd through 6th round may be more lethal, but even then, may or may not provide the desired results. The latest tactics & training are what the others are saying regarding the now available ammo. There are various brands & models of jacketed hollow point (jhp) ammo in .38 Special on the market and the wadcutter is also still worthy of consideration.

Missing; wall penetration; or over-penetration is also being considered and also hints at violating one of the prime safety rules of knowing ones target and what's beyond or around it. Some training to mitigate this is to shoot upward from a low angle. All this may need to become instinctive and the education, training, & practice really apply.

Do give more thought to one's plan as to what the threat(s) are. For example, is it one person somehow gaining access to the daughter's residence? Do consider what security remedies can be put into place even before getting to the firearm level. Perhaps this has already been done. How accessible is the revolver? Is the revolver already on one's person, which can be considered the best place for it to be. If this becomes true, then consideration to carrying the revolver or any other handgun outside the home may need to be considered. What other use-of-force options are available should it even ever get to that level?

These questions aren't meant to be answered here, but are asked for anyone to give more thought to one's security plan. Start thinking in terms of a business (like a pawn shop), a school, or even a police department. What types of security are in-place and available: locks; video; peep-holes; alarms; don't-answer-the-door-training?

Summary, the basic question was answered in Post 2.

 

[Hapworth]

I'm afraid that is an issue. Every other week she has her daughters (8 and 11) in a bedroom across the hall. The entry to the apartment is between the two bedrooms. It is a bad set up.

Maybe the answer is a .410 or 20 gauge?

.410 bore and 20 gauge send pellets -- be they buck or bird -- with the same velocity and energy as their 12 gauge counterpart, just fewer of them; it isn't a solution to the problem posed.

Hardening paths of ingress is your daughter's best first action. A good dog, if a possibility, is a second. An alarm system if it can be afforded and the building allows it; if not, there are standalone entry alert devices.

A landline at hand in her bedroom that she can dial 911 with first to immediately alert authorities to an emergency and location.

She'll need a plan organized with and understood by her children for what to do if there's an intruder, and she'll need to incorporate into that plan where she'll have to hold fire and where she can send it that keep the girls out of harm's way.

If feasible, a home defense training course with live fire drills would help.

After all that, choose ammunition intended and proven for defense. Under most circumstances, shooting is a last resort. You won't have to deal with missed shots and their risks if handling the other aspects of home security provides enough protection that no shots need be fired.

 

[getoff]

Any good reputable hollowpoint will do. If she's a little sensitive to recoil, my gal has had pretty good luck with Hornady's Critical Defense Standard Pressure. I believe they're 110-gr.

+1 on these... they are in my wifes 637 every day. we did some testing at work and i can tell you, they do their job just fine. this critical defense is indeed, 110 gr. non +p ammo. standard pressure. fairly tame in an airweight so in a 4" k frame i'm sure they are super soft as well as a good option.

 

[DD357]

The Safety Slugs are not a viable choice due to extremely poor penetration. I like the 135 Gold Dots as well.

 

[Arik]

I'm afraid that is an issue. Every other week she has her daughters (8 and 11) in a bedroom across the hall. The entry to the apartment is between the two bedrooms. It is a bad set up.

Maybe the answer is a .410 or 20 gauge?

She may need to look beyond just a gun. Simple thing like door jamming devices. They are cheap and effective against your avg break in. It's not going to stop a determined person but he would have to kick through the door, which takes time to do. There are a million variations and they are mostly under $50. It's not fool proof but it adds time and it may stop a simple opportunist

Adding a second set of locks, like dead bolts.

None of these are going to stop anyone determined to get in but it gives time for her to get the gun, get in her daughters room with a phone, lock herself in and call the police. Maybe have a similar thing in the bedrooms. Makes it that much harder to overcome yet another door.

If she is allowed to....maybe add a laud audible alarm for the door. If the door is opened at night it sets of a siren laud enough to wake the dead....and the neighbors. No one is going to stand around there as it draws instant attention.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

In the .38 Special for close range personal defense it is hard to beat the 148-grain wadcutter target loads. Minimal recoil, minimal muzzle blast, dead soft lead slug with full caliber-diameter flat nose that transfers energy very efficiently.

About the only downside to wadcutter loads is that reloading the cylinder can be difficult to do under stress. Pointed or tapered bullets are easier to insert into the chambers, either individually or with a speed loader. So maybe a cylinder full of wadcutters backed up by a speed loader with SWC or JHP ammo.

 

[ContinentalOp]

She may need to look beyond just a gun. Simple thing like door jamming devices. They are cheap and effective against your avg break in. It's not going to stop a determined person but he would have to kick through the door, which takes time to do. There are a million variations and they are mostly under $50. It's not fool proof but it adds time and it may stop a simple opportunist

In addition to slowing intruders, attempting to break through such a barrier will also cause a lot of noise, hopefully enough to inspire the neighbors to call 911.

 

[dogsoldier]

While low recoil and accuracy are good stuff, I would not recommend ball rounds for defensive purposes - I've worked on a case in which one of these 130-grain ball rounds penetrated one person and hit the person behind him.

DITTO! Many years ago I shot a 7-lb rooster with 158 gr LRN fired from my grandfathers Model 36. Range was approximately 10 feet. Sights were centered on the rooster's chest when I fired. The rooster ran off, showing no evidence of being hit. I found him 20 minutes later, dead. Skinning it found a single, small hole dead center in his chest, and a similar exit hole in his back. THAT was my 'wake up call' regarding using the BEST defensive ammunition available.

 

[cmort666]

I have the Federal "FBI Load" in all of my .38s and .357s.

It's accurate and not at all punishing, even in a 2" 36.

 

[Whitwabit]

Though no one has asked .. has this pistol been shot lately .. wondering with ammo that is suppose to be 25 years old .. has the gun set for that long ?? I'm guessing it has been maintained properly ..

I would make sure it is functional and then get newer self defense ammo .. there are many different brands and almost all perform well ..

 

[Execpro]

Execpro

First thing to do is have the gun inspected by a licensed gunsmith and find out if a 60 year old gun is safe! and can use modern ammunition ( plus P or regular velocity)and has or can be upgraded to a hammer safety. My ministers son was killed when the hammer came back part way and released,firing the gun on a older 38.If either of these items fail, trade it in for a S&W or Tauris Judge with 410 gauge shot shells. For apartment living I would get the Judge. The next question is to find out if the young lady is ready and willing to take someone's life without hesitation. If not,get a door bar as mentioned in above post or get a dog. Either/or is a good suggestion. Look into a reputable hand gun training course and have her take it. It will cover current laws and gun safety. As mentioned in another post, she should spend time on the range and provide a safe/lockable place at home for the gun when not there or having guest. Be safe!

 

[watsonrg]

Though no one has asked .. has this pistol been shot lately .. wondering with ammo that is suppose to be 25 years old .. has the gun set for that long ?? I'm guessing it has been maintained properly ..

I would make sure it is functional and then get newer self defense ammo .. there are many different brands and almost all perform well ..

Good point, but the gun has not been sitting idle all this time.

My Dad passed it to me about 35 years ago. It received its' share of range time. I passed it on to my daughter five years ago. It has been to the range a few times since then.

Dad always cleaned it after every firing and that tradition has been maintained.

The S/D ammo was replaced with range ammo at the range, hence its' age.

She does have a dog (Cocker Spaniel) that at least can sound the alarm if not physically protect.

But I will make it a point to get her to the range sooner rather than later and find a cartridge suitable for her.

Thanks brothers.

 

[Protected One]

She may need to look beyond just a gun. Simple thing like door jamming devices. They are cheap and effective against your avg break in. It's not going to stop a determined person but he would have to kick through the door, which takes time to do. There are a million variations and they are mostly under $50. It's not fool proof but it adds time and it may stop a simple opportunist

Adding a second set of locks, like dead bolts.

None of these are going to stop anyone determined to get in but it gives time for her to get the gun, get in her daughters room with a phone, lock herself in and call the police. Maybe have a similar thing in the bedrooms. Makes it that much harder to overcome yet another door.

If she is allowed to....maybe add a laud audible alarm for the door. If the door is opened at night it sets of a siren laud enough to wake the dead....and the neighbors. No one is going to stand around there as it draws instant attention.

This should also buy her enough time to collect her daughters and bring them into her bedroom, leaving her free to safely cover the bedroom door.

 

[DEG]

I would abandon the Glasers and any other such political gimmick. You can select a round that will stop a threat OR you can select a round that won't penetrate an apartment wall; you can't have both.