Ammo recommendation for daughter's 38

[watsonrg]

My daughter lives in an a multi unit building in Dallas. She has her grandfather's M&P 4" revolver from 1948.

When I gave it to her she was living in a detached home. It was loaded with three Glaser safety slugs backed up by three 158 grain hollow points in case the Glasers don't stop the threat. All of that is at least twenty years old, maybe more.

I've heard pros and cons on the Glasers over the years.

Any recommendations given the parameters?

Thanks brothers.

 

[petepeterson]

Any good reputable hollowpoint will do. If she's a little sensitive to recoil, my gal has had pretty good luck with Hornady's Critical Defense Standard Pressure. I believe they're 110-gr.

 

[Erich]

Right off the bat, I'd be concerned with the different points of impact of those different types of rounds from her fixed-sight gun. Say she misses with a 158-grainer and it goes into something it ought not . . . she hasn't been practicing with these rounds and they have grossly different velocities/points of impact: my lawyer nose smells negligence in the water.

What's wrong with the Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P rounds that seem to be state-of-the-art with police these days? They're pretty easy to find and she'll be able to practice with them. And they're the rounds that are issued by a lot of police departments who still authorize wheelguns.

 

[Arik]

Right off the bat, I'd be concerned with the different points of impact of those different types of rounds from her fixed-sight gun. Say she misses with a 158-grainer and it goes into something it ought not . . . she hasn't been practicing with these rounds and they have grossly different velocities/points of impact: my lawyer nose smells negligence in the water.

What's wrong with the Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P rounds that seem to be state-of-the-art with police these days? They're pretty easy to find and she'll be able to practice with them. And they're the rounds that are issued by a lot of police departments who still authorize wheelguns.

Pretty much what Erich said. The best results are from consistency. Pick good ammo and don't mix and match. There is a plethora of excellent performing self defense ammunition to chose from. Pick one, shoot it for function and POI test. If everything works fine, which it should, then you're all set.

 

[watsonrg]

Thanks fellows.

My concerns are wall penetration (hence the Glasers) and stopping power. The revolver is loaded so the Glasers are first down the barrel.

I've heard the Glasers might not be effective against a heavy leather jacket for example.

 

[Hapworth]

Thanks fellows.

My concerns are wall penetration (hence the Glasers) and stopping power. The revolver is loaded so the Glasers are first down the barrel.

I've heard the Glasers might not be effective against a heavy leather jacket for example.

"Stopping power" is a difficult term because everyone knows what it means, but there's no real definition for or way to quantify it.

Wall penetration concerns are understandable in tight confines with family, roommates and neighbors. The rub is, any round that will generally meet industry minimums for effective penetration are going to go through walls -- there's no way around it.

Each self-defense shooting is unique; the best defense rounds may or may not do the job of stopping an attack, depending on a variety of factors, but "safety rounds" like Glasers really may or may not do the job.

They're not for me, but I can see where someone might decide that in weighing the balance of competing factors, they're an option.

In close confines with walls to worry about what's on the other side, I think it's better to choose -- as you have -- a dependable but smaller service caliber like .38 Special (versus something big bore), and opt for quality hollow points that are damaging if they hit, but in the event of a miss will slow down and fragment faster than other designs.

There are many .38 Special loads that are recommended; run a search for the legion discussions, yours -- even in its specifics -- is a question often asked here.

I've settled on Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 Special+P 135 grain hollow points.

 

[Gamecock]

Get her Remington UMC 130 Grain FMJ. Basic, cheap ammo, she can shoot a lot. Little recoil issues. Nice meplat.

Don't expect handgun bullets to do tricks.

 

[Florida J Frame]

Right off the bat, I'd be concerned with the different points of impact of those different types of rounds from her fixed-sight gun. Say she misses with a 158-grainer and it goes into something it ought not . . . she hasn't been practicing with these rounds and they have grossly different velocities/points of impact: my lawyer nose smells negligence in the water.

What's wrong with the Speer Gold Dot 135-grain +P rounds that seem to be state-of-the-art with police these days? They're pretty easy to find and she'll be able to practice with them. And they're the rounds that are issued by a lot of police departments who still authorize wheelguns.

sgammo.com usually has the Gold Dots in stock. If not you can click the notify when in button and they will email you.

 

[Erich]

Get her Remington UMC 130 Grain FMJ. Basic, cheap ammo, she can shoot a lot. Little recoil issues. Nice meplat.

Don't expect handgun bullets to do tricks.

While low recoil and accuracy are good stuff, I would not recommend ball rounds for defensive purposes - I've worked on a case in which one of these 130-grain ball rounds penetrated one person and hit the person behind him.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

In an apartment building you were right to select Glasers but I understand that there COULD be issues. To avoid those issues I'd stoke that puppy with 158 grain LRNs or maybe 148 grain lead wadcutters. Easy to shoot, "nice meplat". Or, perhaps, 158 grain lead semi-wadcutters.

Walls are too easy to penetrate.

 

[Arik]

Get her Remington UMC 130 Grain FMJ. Basic, cheap ammo, she can shoot a lot. Little recoil issues. Nice meplat.

Don't expect handgun bullets to do tricks.

No definitely not magical but there are better ammo for terminal performance

 

[doc84]

Good reading here...

Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

Mods,

There is an excellent read about the OP's inquiry posted as a sticky on another forum. It is written by Dr. G. Roberts and covers some excellent points about .380 acp vs .38 Spl. While it is in an LE context, it is relevant here. Is it ok to post the link?

 

[Duckford]

Glaser Safety Slugs are trash, a horrible gimmick sold to people who don't know better yet. Weight retention is a GOOD thing, and fragmentation can alone be considered failure in many handgun rounds, so fragmenting handgun bullets are basically designed to fail. Glaser, Tango, RIP, et al are all gimmicks that look cool, sell the false notion that one can certainly stop any risk of over penetration, and offer you the magic beans in exchange for the cow.

If a bullet can't punch through sheetrock, it won't have the properties necessary to punch deep enough into an attacker to kill. If it can't punch through a limb and continue on into a torso behind it, it isn't good enough. We have to live with the fact that missed shots are dangerous, and gutting out our bullets and loads is not a solution. Get into a gunfight with an attacker in your apartment, failing to stop the attacker quickly can lead to you being killed or injured, or many more shots being fired by you AND the attacker, and remember that missed shots are far more dangerous than the ones you hit with. The theory behind poor penetration as a plus is not just bad, but dangerous in its own right.

If she is going to shoot low power, don't shoot an expanding bullet, and stick with a lead wadcutter of the 148-158 grain. If higher power is desirable, choose a hollow point 135 grains or larger, full power +p. The Gold Dot is a choice, but so are many hollow points in the 158 grain range, which do very well. Never choose 110 grain bullets, and don't do 125 unless you are going to upgrade to a .357 Magnum. Even powerful .38 +p loads are a little bit on the lower power side, and heavier weight bullets will perform better.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

My daughter lives in an a multi unit building in Dallas. She has her grandfather's M&P 4" revolver from 1948.

When I gave it to her she was living in a detached home. It was loaded with three Glaser safety slugs backed up by three 158 grain hollow points in case the Glasers don't stop the threat. All of that is at least twenty years old, maybe more.

I've heard pros and cons on the Glasers over the years.

Any recommendations given the parameters?

Thanks brothers.

I'm assuming it's not rated for +P? I keep Hornady Critical Defense Lite in my 2" M&P I believe the manufacturing date on mine was in the early 30's. In any event, I trust those loads as my backup.

Should minimize overpenitration while for sure providing enough punch to do the job.

 

[Kanewpadle]

When talking handguns, there is no such think as stopping power or knock down power.

The best bet is to buy just about any premium self defense load, teach her to hit her target well, and have a home defense plan.

She should hunker down in her bedroom and wait for the bad guy. If she has to shoot in the direction of the bedroom door, where are the bullets going if she misses?

Plan ahead.

 

[watsonrg]

When talking handguns, there is no such think as stopping power or knock down power.

The best bet is to buy just about any premium self defense load, teach her to hit her target well, and have a home defense plan.

She should hunker down in her bedroom and wait for the bad guy. If she has to shoot in the direction of the bedroom door, where are the bullets going if she misses?

Plan ahead.

I'm afraid that is an issue. Every other week she has her daughters (8 and 11) in a bedroom across the hall. The entry to the apartment is between the two bedrooms. It is a bad set up.

Maybe the answer is a .410 or 20 gauge?

 

[L-2]

The questions are indicative of a serious lack of firearms tactics and whether the firearm is good as part of a home safety/security plan at this time.

Regarding just the firearm portion: education; training; practice; proficiency; weapon(s) selection; ammo selection; legal issues; willingness/understanding on use of lethal force; all are considerations.

While choosing Glaser ammo for the first two rounds shows thought and planning, it indicates to me an intent not to use lethal force, yet it could be lethal. The 3rd through 6th round may be more lethal, but even then, may or may not provide the desired results. The latest tactics & training are what the others are saying regarding the now available ammo. There are various brands & models of jacketed hollow point (jhp) ammo in .38 Special on the market and the wadcutter is also still worthy of consideration.

Missing; wall penetration; or over-penetration is also being considered and also hints at violating one of the prime safety rules of knowing ones target and what's beyond or around it. Some training to mitigate this is to shoot upward from a low angle. All this may need to become instinctive and the education, training, & practice really apply.

Do give more thought to one's plan as to what the threat(s) are. For example, is it one person somehow gaining access to the daughter's residence? Do consider what security remedies can be put into place even before getting to the firearm level. Perhaps this has already been done. How accessible is the revolver? Is the revolver already on one's person, which can be considered the best place for it to be. If this becomes true, then consideration to carrying the revolver or any other handgun outside the home may need to be considered. What other use-of-force options are available should it even ever get to that level?

These questions aren't meant to be answered here, but are asked for anyone to give more thought to one's security plan. Start thinking in terms of a business (like a pawn shop), a school, or even a police department. What types of security are in-place and available: locks; video; peep-holes; alarms; don't-answer-the-door-training?

Summary, the basic question was answered in Post 2.

 

[Hapworth]

I'm afraid that is an issue. Every other week she has her daughters (8 and 11) in a bedroom across the hall. The entry to the apartment is between the two bedrooms. It is a bad set up.

Maybe the answer is a .410 or 20 gauge?

.410 bore and 20 gauge send pellets -- be they buck or bird -- with the same velocity and energy as their 12 gauge counterpart, just fewer of them; it isn't a solution to the problem posed.

Hardening paths of ingress is your daughter's best first action. A good dog, if a possibility, is a second. An alarm system if it can be afforded and the building allows it; if not, there are standalone entry alert devices.

A landline at hand in her bedroom that she can dial 911 with first to immediately alert authorities to an emergency and location.

She'll need a plan organized with and understood by her children for what to do if there's an intruder, and she'll need to incorporate into that plan where she'll have to hold fire and where she can send it that keep the girls out of harm's way.

If feasible, a home defense training course with live fire drills would help.

After all that, choose ammunition intended and proven for defense. Under most circumstances, shooting is a last resort. You won't have to deal with missed shots and their risks if handling the other aspects of home security provides enough protection that no shots need be fired.

 

[getoff]

Any good reputable hollowpoint will do. If she's a little sensitive to recoil, my gal has had pretty good luck with Hornady's Critical Defense Standard Pressure. I believe they're 110-gr.

+1 on these... they are in my wifes 637 every day. we did some testing at work and i can tell you, they do their job just fine. this critical defense is indeed, 110 gr. non +p ammo. standard pressure. fairly tame in an airweight so in a 4" k frame i'm sure they are super soft as well as a good option.

 

[DD357]

The Safety Slugs are not a viable choice due to extremely poor penetration. I like the 135 Gold Dots as well.