Ammo Scalpers

[LostintheOzone]

No, I have none, waiting on one of the anti "scalper" crusaders to step up and sell me some.

You are destitute. I'd sell you some but I don't have any either. I just load what I expect to shoot next week. Bullets and primers are in short supply just like ammo. If this goes on another year I'm sunk.

 

[Beemerguy53]

Reading the various comments on here, I can see both sides of this issue.

I have plenty of ammo on hand, and haven't needed to buy any during this current situation, so what's happening doesn't really affect me.

I'm a firm believer in the free market. Sellers and buyers determine the "fair" price for a given product, and unless there's force, coercion, or deception involved, nobody has grounds to complain.

On the other hand, there's a special place in hell for people who take advantage of bad situations so they can make money off of the fears of others. Yeah, it might be legal, but it's unsavory, and a slimy way to make a buck...

 

[BC38]

Reading the various comments on here, I can see both sides of this issue.

I have plenty of ammo on hand, and haven't needed to buy any during this current situation, so what's happening doesn't really affect me.

I'm a firm believer in the free market. Sellers and buyers determine the "fair" price for a given product, and unless there's force, coercion, or deception involved, nobody has grounds to complain.

On the other hand, there's a special place in hell for people who take advantage of bad situations so they can make money off of the fears of others. Yeah, it might be legal, but it's unsavory, and a slimy way to make a buck...

MY THOUGHTS AND POSITION EXACTLY.
There are a LOT of things that are legal that are flat out WRONG. I can't control others, but I can express my opinion about what they do.
And it is just that - my opinion based on my belief system/ethics/morals/upbringing or whatever name you want to give it.

 

[tops]

Why can't the people that are having a hard time finding ammo buy a pellet or BB gun and use it for practice. Practice is just trigger pull and sight alignment and a BB gun will do that just as good as a center fire gun and a lot cheaper.
One box of real bullets would last a long time for self defense. Self defense ammo does not have to be super high priced stuff. Plain ball has been killing things for hundreds of years. Split a box of ammo with somebody else that can't afford a whole box.
I've been in several places that I shouldn't have been but I've never had too fire a shot in self defense. That leads me too believe that most people don't need any self defense ammo and I doubt if the rest of the people use over half a box in their life. Larry

 

[smoothshooter]

I hope everyone here has the good sense to avoid paying ammo scalper prices. When people go online and pay $1.50 or $2.00 per round they are feeding the scalpers and making it harder and harder for our little gun shop owners to purchase ammo. The ammo manufacturers will eventually get caught up and things will get back to normal. Do what you can to buy local and shut down the ammo scalpers.

In a Capitalist System supply and demand find their own levels.
The current situation will be with us for a long, long time. Better get used to it. We are not likely to ever return to 2019 prices and availability
I stopped shooting cartridge guns altogether several months ago except for one session using about 25 rounds of .22LR over 8 months ago. No longer practice with my carry guns either. The replacement costs of what I have on hand are scary.

Black powder guns are all I shoot now.

 

[BC38]

Why can't the people that are having a hard time finding ammo buy a pellet or BB gun and use it for practice. Practice is just trigger pull and sight alignment and a BB gun will do that just as good as a center fire gun and a lot cheaper.
One box of real bullets would last a long time for self defense. Self defense ammo does not have to be super high priced stuff. Plain ball has been killing things for hundreds of years. Split a box of ammo with somebody else that can't afford a whole box.
I've been in several places that I shouldn't have been but I've never had too fire a shot in self defense. That leads me too believe that most people don't need any self defense ammo and I doubt if the rest of the people use over half a box in their life. Larry

How's that fit with the "train with what you carry" philosophy? Do you not believe in that principle, or are you going to carry a BB gun for self defense?

Personally I haven't had to use my SD weapon either. But the fact that I haven't had to use a fire extinguisher in my home doesn't mean I don't think I should keep one handy AND know how to use it. I haven't had a flat in years either, but I still carry a full size spare in all my rigs.

Guess I'm just weird that way.

 

[tops]

How's that fit with the "train with what you carry" philosophy? Do you not believe in that principle, or are you going to carry a BB gun for self defense?

Personally I haven't had to use my SD weapon either. But the fact that I haven't had to use a fire extinguisher in my home doesn't mean I don't think I should keep one handy AND know how to use it. I haven't had a flat in years either, but I still carry a full size spare in all my rigs.

Guess I'm just weird that way.

I never said to use a BB gun for self defense. I said use one to practice sight alignment and trigger pull.
I also didn't say too not carry for self defense. I was saying that a half a box is plenty of ammo for self defense.
In the real world a pistol and the ammo in it is usually sufficient for self defense. Of course you can put in a bunch of "what ifs" and decide too get professional training and carry a belt fed too be prepared for a mob attack. What if the mob has 3 belt fed guns then you will need a tank. Larry

 

[BC38]

I never said to use a BB gun for self defense. I said use one to practice sight alignment and trigger pull.
I also didn't say too not carry for self defense. I was saying that a half a box is plenty of ammo for self defense.
In the real world a pistol and the ammo in it is usually sufficient for self defense. Of course you can put in a bunch of "what ifs" and decide too get professional training and carry a belt fed too be prepared for a mob attack. What if the mob has 3 belt fed guns then you will need a tank. Larry

Yeah, I read what you said and addressed it point by point.
The point is using a BB gun to practice sight alignment and trigger pull is NOT sufficient training or realistic enough training for self defense - unless that is what you are carrying for self defense. Obviously you agree that isn't a good idea.

Do you also agree that if you are going to have a gun for self defense you should also practice USING THAT GUN? I'm not talking about professional training or machine guns. I'm talking about practicing shooting more than a half a box of ammo through a handgun you carry for self defense. Hell, most people don't even consider a new pistol to have proven itself reliable enough for self defense carry until they have put at least a couple of hundred failure free rounds through one.

Now if you are just looking at the odds of NEEDING a gun as a measure of whether or not you need ammo, then why would you not apply those same odds to things like fire extinguishers and spare tires? The obvious answer that you are dodging is that it is better to be prepared, even though these things may never be needed, because IF they are ever needed and you don't have them, you may never need them again. Just like a parachute

Let me ask you this. Do YOU carry or own a firearm for self defense - just in case you should ever need it? If so, WHY? You obviously believe the odds are that it is unnecessary. Or does that only apply to other people? If you have a gun for self defense, have you practiced with it? If so, why? If not why not?
Do you think it is necessary? Or do you think practicing with the gun you might use to defend you and yours isn't necessary?

So far your answers have sounded like you feel that actually practicing with your firearm it is either a) unnecessary, or b) that it is a luxury treserved to a privileged few who have an abundance of resources to afford today's ammo prices.

 

[Hairtrigger]

From the get go, I have never cared for them
I will buy from Midway but much prefer local shops

A previously reputable and reasonable online site that sells
"Less Expensive Than Soil" is now at 1.50 and up. Very disappointing.

 

[Ranger17]

I first got into this hobby at an older age in '12 when gifted an old Colt challenger from the family. Had no clue about ammo shortages and took some time to find any. But I never paid more than what was normal retail and never bought from private party/resellers. Over time as I added 9's to the collection, i shot plenty and would buy plenty esp when on sale. So i could also weather times of spikes and shortages.
Last year i picked up my first sporting rifle (Sport 2) and as i did not have ammo stocked in 223 have had to pick up a little here and there. Been "lucky" to get some in the $0.45-.55 range which I am sure is higher than usual but based on what i see it going up to, well for someone new to that caliber I am fine at those prices.
And frankly as outdoor shooting in WI is seasonal for me and ranges have closed or are limited; I havent been shooting much over the past year so the rest of my stock is still ok. For practice I have been using one of those laser systems I mentioned elsewhere.
To finish up, if there is anything I learned back in the day when Beanie Babies were all the rage and the ladies in my house were collecting them...... we never bought from resellers or paid inflated prices. And I follow that thought process on ammo or anything else that can have peaks. In all seriousness I can admit that this long stretch will have me rethink my range visits, I may not rip thru hundreds of rounds each time as replenishment may not happen.

 

[germansheperd]

I never said to use a BB gun for self defense. I said use one to practice sight alignment and trigger pull.
I also didn't say too not carry for self defense. I was saying that a half a box is plenty of ammo for self defense.
In the real world a pistol and the ammo in it is usually sufficient for self defense. Of course you can put in a bunch of "what ifs" and decide too get professional training and carry a belt fed too be prepared for a mob attack. What if the mob has 3 belt fed guns then you will need a tank. Larry

Per the FBI the average number of rounds exchanged in a gunfight is 4. The average distance is 7 yards.
So technically your average 5 shot J-frame will defend you and you will have 20% more capacity than what is used in the average gunfight.
1 box of 50 you can train 9x and have a full cylinder for defense?

 

[ladder13]

Still waiting for a "moral, ethical, high road, community minded, we are the world" person to offer me a case of 9's. Come on man!

And if you are so moral, ethical and community minded, buy all your shooting needs from the LGS, right? I mean what's better than to support a local business in your community? Why buy ammo/guns/primer/powder online?

Your LGS doesn't have what you need? Have them order it for you.

Oh, even the Good Thief went on Home.

 

[Jack Flash]

... If you buy a gun in a caliber you don't already have, then you have a choice to make, buy or not to buy in the current market, but you don't actually have a need, IMHO.

I'm not trying to set myself up as the "needs" czar. ...

One post contradicts the other.

Explain your view of the real "need", please. ...

You asked me to explain and I did.

 

[ElectroMotive]

Per the FBI the average number of rounds exchanged in a gunfight is 4. The average distance is 7 yards.
So technically your average 5 shot J-frame will defend you and you will have 20% more capacity than what is used in the average gunfight.
1 box of 50 you can train 9x and have a full cylinder for defense?

Do me/we/us a favor and post those statistics from the FBI.

 

[ElectroMotive]

I can't get up early and stand in line 3 mornings a week waiting on a truck to deliver ammo that maybe i can use. 9mm is only caliber i don't reload for may start if that is a option in a couple years.If i had to pay scalpers or pay someone to stand in line to get ammo i would be cutting way back on shooting.

Thems the facts of life.

These so-called scalpers are merely using their time and efforts to make a profit because they know there are people out there that cant. And again, why shouldnt they be compensated for their time, effort, and service?

 

[germansheperd]

Do me/we/us a favor and post those statistics from the FBI.

You know where its at. Some even state 3 rounds exchanged over 3 yards.

 

[BC38]

Best of luck banking on any self defense situation you find yourself in being "average".
An "average of 4 rounds could be one 1-shot stop and one where it took 7 to stop the bad guy.
I don't bank on a bad situation following the "averages" I prepare for worst case, because I ain't the lucky type.
I also practice with what I carry, not with a BB gun. My carry gun goes with me and gets shot at least a couple of magazines worth EVERY range trip.

 

[oink]

There's what's legal and there's what's moral. Most times I try and do what's legal and moral. Capitalism is a good thing when not abused. Greed is not. I view it like charging a fair interest rate as opposed to usury. With the fear of this country's future, that is shared by so many and largely responsible for the gun buying surge, I pretty near equate this greed by scalpers like those scalping gas and other necessities during a hurricane or other disaster. I have enough ammo, for the most part. And yes, if I personally knew a new gun owner that was in need of ammo I would give them some. As it is now I'm hesitant to do much shooting because while adequate my ammo supply isn't unlimited. I'm short on 40 but I do have brass, bullets, powder and primers. Unfortunately when I last bought primers I had to settle for Remington which isn't my favorite. I realize this conversation is pointless as those greed ones reading my post won't be at all affected by it.

 

[jughed440]

1) so you are in line buying with those dirty scalpers first thing in the morning.
2) why aren't the underprivileged in line with you and the scalpers first thing in the morning? Probably because they haven't come out of their high or drunken stupor from the previous night- but that is another story.
3) why isn't the woman from East Gish in line with you and the scalpers every morning trying to buy ammo? Rumor is you and your scalper friends are there first thing in the morning and I don't know of a single gun shop that opens before 10:00 a.m.
4) why isn't the owner of said East Gish store using her credit card to buy ammo online to help her underprivileged customers.
5) why are poor underprivileged people worried about guns and ammo when the should be focusing on food and shelter first. You know priorities. If you don't have a CC why aren't they using their bank or govt welfare card?
There are many ways to do things besides whine about some hustler.

100%!

Like clockwork...with every so-called 'ammo shortage' we get the sleepy complainers who were caught with their pants down (again) and refuse to admit that they were not smart enough to stock up after the last episode. Instead they blame anyone who didn't get caught with their pants down. They're among the crowd who by habit blame others for the problems that they have put on themselves....Of course that mindset comes from the 40+ years of people being told that if they have any problem it's not their fault.. it's the fault of the people who don't have the same problem.

Obvious to all are the sellers offering ammo at staggering prices to people who have made the choice to not be proactive when it comes to having a good supply of ammo on hand...but what is being ignored by the complainers are the closed ammo auctions on GB that started at a penny and ended at the price level, or higher, of what "the scalpers" are asking for...amazing what desperate buyers are WILLING TO PAY. Of course the 'penny auction' seller is automatically blamed for the high price.
As for private sales...the seller may be in need of money and looking to profit off of their wise investment, who knows? or cares?, at least they have it. It's theirs to decide what they will do with it.
What gets me is the sanctimonious nature of some who sit on their huge stash of ammo and refuse to sell it AT THEIR COST to "their fellow human being who is in need", all the while complaining about those who are kind enough to offer any ammo at all, and set at prices that people are WILLING TO PAY.
(still waiting on the high-ground crowd to take care of the gentleman who had requested a case of affordable 9mm ammo).

Having stated all that, I do have much sympathy for the young people who are just becoming of age to own a firearm. They have a legitimate gripe about current ammo costs. As for the rest (who should know by now) ..being prepared beats ignoring the possibilities of whatever may trigger an ammo shortage...every time. Some people just can't learn that.

 

[HorizontalMike]

Hmm

And I only thought that a "scalper" was the barber when he gave you a bad haircut...