What is winchester lawman? Never heard of it or seen it?? Do you mean Ranger? CCI does make a lawman series. Be Safe,
Ammo while carrying for self defense
- Thread starter Haverly38
- Start date
I never understood how people say jackets and coats clog up bullets. Heres an idea. Put on ur favorite winter coats and let someone take a shot at u with a 9 mm hollow point if your so confident youll keep walking. What a load of ****. Your not tryin to kill a elephant with a pellet gun
jeffhughes
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The Hydroshok and the HST are very different rounds. The latter is vastly superior, the poster was referring to the former.
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forrestinmathews
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Put yer reedin glassis awn...
Hydrashok....bad.
HST....different than Hydrashok....good to go as far as I can tell.
ASH556
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M&P 9FS, One goes with me, the other stays home with mama. 124gr Speer Gold Dots in mine, 147gr Gold Dots in hers (subsonic through the suppressor):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/10430558294/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/10430558294/ by ASH556, on Flickr
(yeah, I know, there's a .22 in the pic too).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/10430558294/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/10430558294/ by ASH556, on Flickr
(yeah, I know, there's a .22 in the pic too).
forrestinmathews
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It's okay, not everyone understands how a hollow point bullet really works. The bullet travels a short distance through the air over its ballistic arc before impacting a target. When the bullet impacts a target, it rips into it as material enters the hollow forward section. The problem with jeans and coats is that they are made of compressible materials. This alone does not provide sufficient expansion to overcome the hoop strength(force a cylinder or cone can contain or resist before coming out of its round shape) of the hollow nose. We talk about cones and cylinders because bullets are essentially combinations of these shapes inside the hollow point and outside along the jacket. Furthermore, it does not allow the ingress of flesh and blood and other glorious substances made up of water: a noncompressible substance necessary to make the hollow point function effectively. The Hydrashok is especially vulnerable to failure due to clogging because of the post which does not allow the cloth or fur a place to go into the cavity and also does not help clear it from the opening either. The end result is the bullet can be made to fail with less clogging material and at higher velocities.
Everything else you offered in the above statement is merely bravado.
While I share your sentiments, I find a difference between the act of firing a gun and the knowledge and understanding of terminal ballistics. One can be done at ranges all across the country. The other requires reading books, acquiring first hand knowledge and getting your hands dirty.
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mjdupuis
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I'm not an expert, but choosing a SD round was very important and I tried to do a lot of research. It's a personal choice too, so I'm hesitant to call out a bunch of popular (seemingly) rounds because people take it personally.
It looks like a lot of people stick with early 90's tech in this area which seems like a poor decision. It may have been the best then, but there have been improvements. And I don't want to pick on anyone's sacred cow, but the only hornady round that seems to have any technical credibility is the newer critical duty, but that round still doesn't seem to stack up well against Gold Dot, HST, Golden Sabre, and some Corbon rounds. Do some research, and don't take the word of some guy on a forum (seriously, don't listen to me, there are people out there who's job it is to study this stuff. Listen to them).
Once you have a short list of rounds that seem to be the best, you are forced to find some in stock and then test them in your gun as Rastoff suggested.
ETA: hornady critical defense actually seemed to be one of the best performing rounds in .380acp when I researched that round for my wife, so my statements can't and won't apply to every round or brand or caliber. Again, do your own research.
It looks like a lot of people stick with early 90's tech in this area which seems like a poor decision. It may have been the best then, but there have been improvements. And I don't want to pick on anyone's sacred cow, but the only hornady round that seems to have any technical credibility is the newer critical duty, but that round still doesn't seem to stack up well against Gold Dot, HST, Golden Sabre, and some Corbon rounds. Do some research, and don't take the word of some guy on a forum (seriously, don't listen to me, there are people out there who's job it is to study this stuff. Listen to them).
Once you have a short list of rounds that seem to be the best, you are forced to find some in stock and then test them in your gun as Rastoff suggested.
ETA: hornady critical defense actually seemed to be one of the best performing rounds in .380acp when I researched that round for my wife, so my statements can't and won't apply to every round or brand or caliber. Again, do your own research.
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Old Unk
Member
Winchester Ranger T-Series [Law Enforcement Ammunition]
9 mm 124 gr +P
.45 ACP 230 gr +P
Best.
9 mm 124 gr +P
.45 ACP 230 gr +P
Best.
Here is an article by Massad Ayoob, a noted firearms expert about ammo, although it was written back in 2005 it still has a lot of pertinent information:
Choose your ammo...police style by Massad Ayoob
Choose your ammo...police style by Massad Ayoob
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This is what I was carrying, but have found it impossible to find for at least six months.... I shoot through whatever has been in my carry mags every couple of weeks and I finally ran out of it recently. Have you seen it anywhere? I'm starting to wonder if it's even being produced anymore.
Ghost_Soldier
Member
Remington golden saber 147gr bonded HP 9mm
Underwood ammo w/speer 165gr bonded HP 10mm
Underwood ammo w/speer 165gr bonded HP 10mm
Exactly. I will do my own reasearch. Honestly ive never heard of a foolish person that would keep coming at me after ive pumped 9 rounds of any kind of ammo in him. No matter if hes wearing 5 sweaters and a leather coat and his favorite mittens. I think the dude wld go down after 9 rounds at 10 feet.
smokey0118
Member
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...s/305856-self-defense-ammo.html#post137490924
here are some of my thoughts on the matter over in another thread. It's important to remember that...
reliability>shot placement>penetration>expansion
There's lots of pretty decent loadings out for defense now that get the minimum 12" of penetration through a variety of barriers while expanding 1.5x their original diameter. It's probably less important to worry about an extra .1" expansion that one will give you over the other and more important to dedicate that energy in to more training.
Within loads, my general preference is for heavy-for-caliber loadings. For example, in 9mm the 147 gr loads will generally give the same or better performance than the 124+p loads, but with less recoil, less noise, and less wear on your gun. Heavy for caliber loads also generally favor penetration over expansion, which is more important in the scheme of things. It doesn't matter if your bullet expands to 1" if it doesn't penetrate far enough to hit something important.
here are some of my thoughts on the matter over in another thread. It's important to remember that...
reliability>shot placement>penetration>expansion
There's lots of pretty decent loadings out for defense now that get the minimum 12" of penetration through a variety of barriers while expanding 1.5x their original diameter. It's probably less important to worry about an extra .1" expansion that one will give you over the other and more important to dedicate that energy in to more training.
Within loads, my general preference is for heavy-for-caliber loadings. For example, in 9mm the 147 gr loads will generally give the same or better performance than the 124+p loads, but with less recoil, less noise, and less wear on your gun. Heavy for caliber loads also generally favor penetration over expansion, which is more important in the scheme of things. It doesn't matter if your bullet expands to 1" if it doesn't penetrate far enough to hit something important.
smokey0118
Member
hate to break it to you, but if you're carrying 165 gr ftx crical defense, you're carrying zombie max. It's the same round, but the zed-max has a green polymer plug instead of a red one. Both are made to penetrate to ~11" and stop, with light recoil. I prefer the critical duty loadings that use a heavier bullet. The critical duty loads were made to penetrate between 12-16" and usually end up somewhere around 15". They do that with a heavier bullet and a little more @$$ to the charge.
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emory
Member
If you are able to find hollow points that produce a muzzle velocity of at least 1,300 fps in your weapon that will help to ensure adequate soft tissue damage and more rapid incapacitation of your target. Heavier bullets are more adept at penetration of soft cover, clothing, and bone.
If your carry weapon is chambered in .45ACP, .40S&W, or .38+P then you should focus on the lower mass / higher velocity end of available defensive ammunition. With .40 and .45, you have adequate bore diameter to afford the lower density of solid copper, which typically outperforms jacketed lead. Magtech, Doubletap, and CorBon make loads of this type.
If your carry weapon is chambered in 9mm+P, then velocity is less of a problem and you should look at the heavier end of bonded jacketed lead hollow points. Polymer tips may prevent inadequate expansion. Hornady and Nosler both carry polymer tipped options.
If you carry .357mag, .357sig, or .44mag then shoot any quality hollow point you want.
Of course, ammo choice doesn't matter if you can't hit your target. In my opinion, all handguns (except .44mag) are underpowered and you must be prepared to fire the full magazine/cylinder capacity of your weapon and hit the target with every round, every time. It's easier to practice often if you enjoy shooting your carry weapon and it is cheap to feed.
For what it's worth, I am an engineer and I conduct research in armor protection systems. I live just outside a large city with frightening levels of violent crime. I carry Buffalo Bore 125gr Barnes expanders in my .40 shield. (product 23D/20)
Have fun shopping for ammo and try not to spend too much.
If your carry weapon is chambered in .45ACP, .40S&W, or .38+P then you should focus on the lower mass / higher velocity end of available defensive ammunition. With .40 and .45, you have adequate bore diameter to afford the lower density of solid copper, which typically outperforms jacketed lead. Magtech, Doubletap, and CorBon make loads of this type.
If your carry weapon is chambered in 9mm+P, then velocity is less of a problem and you should look at the heavier end of bonded jacketed lead hollow points. Polymer tips may prevent inadequate expansion. Hornady and Nosler both carry polymer tipped options.
If you carry .357mag, .357sig, or .44mag then shoot any quality hollow point you want.
Of course, ammo choice doesn't matter if you can't hit your target. In my opinion, all handguns (except .44mag) are underpowered and you must be prepared to fire the full magazine/cylinder capacity of your weapon and hit the target with every round, every time. It's easier to practice often if you enjoy shooting your carry weapon and it is cheap to feed.
For what it's worth, I am an engineer and I conduct research in armor protection systems. I live just outside a large city with frightening levels of violent crime. I carry Buffalo Bore 125gr Barnes expanders in my .40 shield. (product 23D/20)
Have fun shopping for ammo and try not to spend too much.
I like the following ammo in my guns.
Short Barreled Guns: Speer Short Barrel Ammo for .357, .38, 9mm
9mm: Any of the +P offerings from Speer, Ranger or Federal HST L.E. Nothing under 124 grain.
.357 Federal Vital Shok 140 gr Barnes Rounds
.45 Federal 230 Grain HST
.44 Spl I had Reeds load a 200 gr Barnes X Round to 1100 FPS for me.
44 mag Barnes 225 Gr XPB
10MM Underwood 180 Gr Speer Bonded HP's
JMO
Short Barreled Guns: Speer Short Barrel Ammo for .357, .38, 9mm
9mm: Any of the +P offerings from Speer, Ranger or Federal HST L.E. Nothing under 124 grain.
.357 Federal Vital Shok 140 gr Barnes Rounds
.45 Federal 230 Grain HST
.44 Spl I had Reeds load a 200 gr Barnes X Round to 1100 FPS for me.
44 mag Barnes 225 Gr XPB
10MM Underwood 180 Gr Speer Bonded HP's
JMO
