And yet another Bourbon thread: For those who really want to know

[Absalom]

We have had a few whiskey discussions lately.

A recent media report on sourced whiskey, the fact that not all bourbon and rye comes from a distillery associated with the name on the bottle, has been mentioned.

Chuck Cowdery, the leading independent expert on US whiskey, just posted an excellent article on his blog. It is well worth reading if you are interested in the backstory:

The Chuck Cowdery Blog: The Rest of the Sourced Whiskey Story

 

[ky wonder]

sorry it took a while to answer but been in Bardstown with a bucket and a strainer and a fishing pole at the creek beside the Barton storage warehouse collapse that happened dumping 9000 brl's of VOB
Kentucky warehouse collapses, sending thousands of whiskey barrels crashing to the ground - NY Daily News

nothing wrong with a little creek water with your liquor, fish got drunk and jumped on the bank to be the first in line for a drink, so I could have left the fishing pole at home

hiccup

 

[S&WIowegan]

Templeton really hurt themselves by lying about the source of their spirits. The demand for the brand was crazy high and it was near impossible to find. The entrepreneur who started Templeton couldn't see clearly with those dollar signs floating before his eyes. He got exposed and demand went poof.

Must be a lesson there somewhere.

 

[Absalom]

An addition if you have the same question about “vertical integration” as that poster in the blog’s comment section:

It refers to distilling, aging, bottling, branding, and distribution being controlled by the same company.

In the American whiskey business, that was really started by a guy named George Garvin Brown in 1870.

If you’ve ever had Old Forester, you may have noticed that it says “First Bottled Bourbon” above the name. Brown was the first to start, in 1870, to sell his bourbon, which was made at a few Louisville-area distilleries, exclusively in sealed bottles, protecting his reputation for quality.

Most other distilleries at the time, as the blog describes, sold to distributors by the barrel, who then diluted with cheap spirit, colored with prune juice, and undertook other “improvements” to enhance profits before selling the whiskey on down the supply line.

Brown’s descendants built on his reputation, and the family nowadays still controls Brown-Forman, which owns Old Forester, Early Times, Woodford Reserve, and the ultimate money-making machine, Jack Daniel’s.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Oh the memories....when I was in college a few of us discovered Old Forester and decided it was our favorite. I don't think we really knew anything about bourbon. However we did have a buddy named Forrester(RIP).

 

[chief38]

I enjoy tasting and collecting Bourbons. I find that sometimes a particular Bourbon will taste better to me than another one did just a week ago. It depends what mood you are in, what you are eating (or ate prior) and believe it or not, even the glass you drink it out of does seem to effect the taste. I have my favorites (as most here do) however there are nights I'll prefer one over another just because.

When having a Cigar along with a glass of Bourbon - that also greatly impacts the flavor and taste. I also find that I prefer a higher proofed Bourbon (with a little more nose) after a meal than prior to eating.

Different Bourbons break up the monotony of "eating the same doughnut every day" and I like to always try new (to me) ones. Once in a while I get a winner and add it to my rotation.

PS: I make an effort to only buy Kentucky Bourbon and Tennessee Sour Mash Whisky as I have found when ever I've tried others from Colorado, NY, PA, NC, etc. hey have always fallen short of my expectations. I also stay away from Bourbons that are JUST bottled in one state and made in another! To me, if a Bourbon is bottled in KY it SHOULD BE MADE in KY! YMMV on that one .......

 

[Absalom]

..... I also stay away from Bourbons that are JUST bottled in one state and made in another! To me, if a Bourbon is bottled in KY it SHOULD BE MADE in KY! YMMV on that one .......

Mostly, that’s a good rule and saves you from stuff of murky origin.

There are a few oddities about bottling. As a matter of efficiency, Diageo bottles most of its (excellent) Kentucky bourbon, mostly Bulleitt, as well as George Dickel Tennessee whiskey, at a huge central bottling facility in Plainfield, Illinois.

Ironically through, Diageo also ships some limited-edition Kentucky bourbons to the George Dickel distillery in Tennessee for bottling, because that’s the only place where they have a hand-bottling line (for unusual bottle shapes and closures) set up.

 

[jdlii]

Most, if not all, of the Orphan Barrel Bourbons were bottled at the George Dickel distillery in Cascade Hollow, Tullahoma, TN.

The George Dickel Select is bottled there as well.

 

[targetchief]

Just found out today that my favorite bourbon has been put on allocation. That means I can no longer buy Henry McKenna 10 yr old by the case. 1 bottle per customer. They are currently out of stock. I will have to make due with Eagle Rare and Buffalo Trace.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

 

[jtcarm]

In my youth I went on a long search for the perfect bourbon that ended with Bushmills.

Alas, can't drink it or any other spirits anymore.

For some reason, Canadian was very popular when I started drinking. I think perhaps Americans developed a taste for it during prohibition that hung on for a while.

 

[Absalom]

....
For some reason, Canadian was very popular when I started drinking. I think perhaps Americans developed a taste for it during prohibition that hung on for a while.

Not just a while.

The bulk of Canadian whisky is exported to the US, and until 2010 (yep, 2010, not a typo) more Canadian whisky than bourbon was sold in the US market.

 

[chief38]

I figured I'd list a few of my FAV's......... NOTE: I am including Jack Daniels in my Bourbon list here as it is sooo close (except for the Charcoal Mellowing process). Even though not technically a Bourbon, that is how most classify it. There is no particular order - just as they came to mind.

Jack Daniels Sinatra Single Barrel Select

Woodford's Reserve DOUBLE Oaked

Eagle Rare

Buffalo Trace

Woodford's Reserve

Blanton's

Jack Daniels Single Barrel and Old #7

Four Roses

Larceny

There are others too however the above are in my standard rotation according to my mood, what I'm eating (if anything) and what's available if I'm out.

 

[S&WIowegan]

In my youth I went on a long search for the perfect bourbon that ended with Bushmills.

Alas, can't drink it or any other spirits anymore.

For some reason, Canadian was very popular when I started drinking. I think perhaps Americans developed a taste for it during prohibition that hung on for a while.

Uhh....I hate to tell ya but Bushmills is Irish whiskey made in Northern Ireland(protestant area). Jameson is Catholic Irish whiskey. Sorry you can't sip it anymore!

 

[Absalom]

Uhh....I hate to tell ya but Bushmills is Irish whiskey made in Northern Ireland(protestant area). Jameson is Catholic Irish whiskey. Sorry you can't sip it anymore!

Except that Bushmills is now owned by the Mexicans (Jose Cuervo), and Jameson by the French (Pernod-Ricard), so pick your poison

I took his segue from bourbon to Bushmills as sarcasm.

 

[jtcarm]

Not just a while.



The bulk of Canadian whisky is exported to the US, and until 2010 (yep, 2010, not a typo) more Canadian whisky than bourbon was sold in the US market.

Well there you go.

Of course, I’m sure the bulk of Mexican pot comes here too.

 

[jtcarm]

Uhh....I hate to tell ya but Bushmills is Irish whiskey made in Northern Ireland(protestant area). Jameson is Catholic Irish whiskey. Sorry you can't sip it anymore!

If I wasn’t Scottish I might take exception with that.

I see why my ancestors came to the New World: the food & whiskey back there suck.

Unfortunately, I can’t sip anything due to hypertension. Irish whiskey is the only alcoholic beverage I really miss partaking of.

Still got most of a bottle I bought ten years ago.

 

[carpriver]

I also want my bourbon to be made in Kentucky, By law bourbon must be made, aged in Kentucky, When Buffalo Trace got its start much of there product was purchase in Indiana it was matched to the there mash bill so the taste would be very close, Buffalo Trace was making their own bourbon and aging it until they could source there own. As I understand Buffalo Trace bought a distillery that had some whiskey aging in warehouses that may or may not have been Old Pappy Van Winkle.

About half of the Bourbon in my collection is from Buffalo Trace, Bullalo Trace, Eagle Rare, Blanton, Stag Jr barrel strength.

Willet Distillery has been selling there own bourbon now for several years, the sell a number of good bourbon under different names. All are good whiskeys. Before they launched their own brand they make and aged bourbon for other companies. So there me others that are contract companies.

 

[Absalom]

I also want my bourbon to be made in Kentucky, By law bourbon must be made, aged in Kentucky, When Buffalo Trace got its start much of there product was purchase in Indiana it was matched to the there mash bill so the taste would be very close, Buffalo Trace was making their own bourbon and aging it until they could source there own. As I understand Buffalo Trace bought a distillery that had some whiskey aging in warehouses that may or may not have been Old Pappy Van Winkle.
.....

I think you’re getting some things mixed up there

The Buffalo Trace Distillery got its current name about 20 years ago, but has been there for over a hundred years under a few different names. Before BT, it was called George T. Stagg. No whiskey ever from Indiana. In fact they contract-distilled for other brands.

Most of the current warehouses are from about 1906, except the famous metal-clad Warehouse H where Blanton’s is aged; that’s from the 1930s.

And Pappy Van Winkle whiskey as a label isn’t old. The brand was invented by the Van Winkle family in the 1990s and is contract-distilled at BT using Pappy’s old recipe from the Stitzel-Weller days.

PS: For completeness' sake, a few photos from my tour at BT:
The low red building in the 2nd pic is the Blanton's warehouse H; hand-bottling Eagle Rare and Blanton's (including blurry pictures of the hands )

 

[jtcarm]

Ah, now I see why those four-legged critters Kentucky calls “race horses” in Kentucky look like skeletons. They use all the grain for whiskey.

 

[SPEEDGUNNER]

I have enjoyed some good bourbon by conversations shared in these threads here on the S&W Forum. My next trip to the State Store (what we call them in PA) will be to pick up a bottle of Old Forester.