Another Jeff Cooper Thread

[THE PILGRIM]

the other day I stopped by NRA Whittington.
They have a small but well done Museum.
They probably try to do too much in a small space, probably reacting to the wishes of donors.
The Jeff Cooper display only has 2 guns.
One is 1911 and the other is one of his Scout Rifles.
It's probably the ugliest IMO of the scout rifles.
It's Steyr with a red stock. Like bright red stock.
Then it's got pictures ( decals?) on the stock.
I can't image Jeff Cooper actually liking something like that.
Do they have a gun for me? Absolutely!
I don't mean just an old expensive gun, they have a bunch of those.
I mean one that I really like.
Its a fully engraved 3 inch 624.

 

[just jim]

I liked reading Coopers writing. Never met the man but he brought in a lot of good hours of learning. Reading his early stuff on guys like Weaver got me to buy my model 14 Smith. A better gun I could never find.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I read a lot of Col Coopers writings and always did want to meet him. Never did but he did sell me on the Scout rifle idea and I did purchase a Ruger GSR last year. Not a perfect rendition but close enough.

 

[feralmerril]

Seen him once. One of the gun magazines had a picture of him spotting my hits in one of the first silhouette revolver shoots about 1972 (?) in california. Somewhere I have that magazine packed away. I didnt do well, looked like a beached walrus shooting my 8 3/8" Nickle 29-2. Think it was a "Guns and ammo". Met Weaver too.

 

[zzzippper]

We are not a fan. There is something pompously wrong with someone that speaks of himself in the third person.

 

[G-Mac]

Gotta love a guy that could coin the term "poodle shooter", referring to the AR "platform" in .223/5.56.

 

[feralmerril]

He sure appeared to be a no nonsense type. Seems I read somewhere he was also a english professor? Somewhere I have a ancent book he wrote on "Defense Handguns." I probley bought that one in the mid/late 1950`s.

 

[federali]

Jeff the Gent

I had some interaction with Mr. Cooper. When I published a book intended for armed store owners, (Varro Press) I wrote to Mr. Cooper, asking permission to use his lesson plan on color-code mindset. He graciously gave me permission to use his lesson with the proviso that I not change it. He got annoyed when writers tried to "improve" his lesson plan by adding a "Condition Black" or some other wrinkle.

Naturally, I followed his instructions exactly and I was thrilled to receive favorable comments from him when the book was published and I had sent his a complimentary copy.

 

[Tom K]

We are not a fan. There is something pompously wrong with someone that speaks of himself in the third person.

Not in the third person, but in the first person plural. Queen Victoria could get away with that - "We are not amused" - but she spoke for an empire. Cooper spoke only for himself and so yes, pompous is the word.

 

[feralmerril]

We alll bundle!

 

[Alpo]

Elmer Keith was also known to use the "editorial we". Did that make him pompus?

I understand how he felt about that "improving" his color code. I read something, just the other day, about how to carry the 1911.

Condition zero - loaded, chambered, cocked and off safe.
Condition one - cocked and locked on a hot chamber
Condition two - hammer down on a live one
Condition three - hammer down on an empty chamber
Condition four - hammer down on an empty chamber, no magazine in gun

Condition Zero? Condition Four? Where did that garbage come from?

 

[THE PILGRIM]

Elmer Keith was also known to use the "editorial we". Did that make him pompus?

It was OK for Elmer to say we.
He always had a mouse in his pocket.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Well, "We've" met him and he was the biggest most pompous full of himself alpha hotel that it has been "our" displeasure to meet. "We'll " leave it at that.......

 

[Tom K]

Elmer Keith was also known to use the "editorial we". Did that make him pompus?

I understand how he felt about that "improving" his color code. I read something, just the other day, about how to carry the 1911.

Condition zero - loaded, chambered, cocked and off safe.
Condition one - cocked and locked on a hot chamber
Condition two - hammer down on a live one
Condition three - hammer down on an empty chamber
Condition four - hammer down on an empty chamber, no magazine in gun

Condition Zero? Condition Four? Where did that garbage come from?

Shouldn't there be a condition 1.5 in there - one in the chamber, hammer at half cock?

 

[X Ring Ranch]

We are not a fan. There is something pompously wrong with someone that speaks of himself in the third person.

I didn't care for him because he always promoted the 1911.

Now if he had said a S&W Revolver, I might have changed my mind.

 

[X Ring Ranch]

Shouldn't there be a condition 1.5 in there - one in the chamber, hammer at half cock?

There is a condition 5

Loaded - hammer on half cock - live round in the chamber - leather thong around the grip safety to de-activate it.
No holster just crammed in the pants.






Texas Ranger Tales

http://sheriffjimwilson.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/texas_ranger_lo.jpgOne of the most interesting of the old-time Texas Rangers was Charles Edward "Charlie"Miller. Miller joined the Rangers in 1919 and retired in 1968, 49 years of service. During that time, due to Texas politics, Miller also served as a federal prohibition investigator and a Special Texas Ranger. But he will always be known for his Ranger service. Ranger captain A.Y. Allee once told me that Charlie Miller had killed 7 or 8 men in the line of duty and was justified in every case.


Mr. Miller was one of the first Rangers to see the value of the Colt 1911 pistol as a peace officer's weapon. However, Miller had a severe dislike for the grip safety on the pistol. His solution was to tied the grip safety down with a length of rawhide. He also carried his pistol with a round in the chamber and the hammer on half cock (a practice that is definitely not recommended). To make matters even more interesting, Miller disdained the use of a holster and generally just carried the .45 auto shoved down in the front of his pants. In later years, his big belly pretty well made this a concealed-carry technique.


One time, during a firearms training session, a Texas DPS instructor saw Miller's gun, with the tied down safety, and asked, "Mr. Miller, isn't that dangerous?" Miller quickly shot back, "Son, if the damned old thing wasn't dangerous, I wouldn't be wearing it!"


One of my favorite Charlie Miller stories comes from a time that Miller shot it out with an outlaw down in the vega (river bottom) of the Rio Grande. They had hit each other and had both taken cover. Supposedly, Miller called over to the outlaw and said they were going to both lie there and bleed to death, so why didn't they just stand up and finish it like men. Miller shook his head and related, "And you know what? That damned fool stood up!"


Charlie Miller is a legend in the annals of the Texas Rangers. Like a lot of good peace officers, his gunfights never soured his disposition and friends across Texas were legion. Charlie Miller is buried in the Texas State cemetery, next to his long-time friend and commander, Col. Homer Garrison. A Texas legend; and he did it with a Colt 1911.



I knew Dan Combs (Oklahoma Highway Patrolman and Instructor) We competed against each other in PPC matches. He told me he crammed a loaded 1911 in his pants just above his zipper and it went off. He said he was the only one in the State of Oklahoma who had a .22 caliber pecker with a .45 caliber hole in it.





=

 

[UncleEd]

He had a few good ideas in his early days and from there it seemed he believed everything he thought must be brilliant.

I remember his instant predictions for failure of some autos that were introduced in the 1980s and none of those predictions bore out.

He was a big bore stuck in 1911.

 

[derek45auto]

I think he did a lot for defensive pistol shooting. I always enjoyed reading his stuff.....correction...."we" always enjoyed reading his stuff LOL

My favorite Cooper Quote...

"The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

 

[mtgianni]

I believe he had several good points to make but so do many on the stools at most bars. What I like most is his assertation that a 30--30 is a better assault rifle than an AR.

 

[Big Cholla]

I Second the Motion

Well, "We've" met him and he was the biggest most pompous full of himself alpha hotel that it has been "our" displeasure to meet. "We'll " leave it at that.......

Thru the course of my being trained as a Firearms Instructor/Armorer/Competitor and then some special events I met and talked with Mr. Cooper several times. Every time I came away with less appreciation of the man than I had the previous meeting. I liken people like him as "grindstone personalities". I.E., every time one gets around them they make you just a little sore. My solution came to be was to just avoid him.

Yes, he contributed. Yes, he thought very highly of himself. Yes, some of his writings were very thought provoking. I could accept all those things in context, but I came to just not like him personally. ..... Big Cholla