Another Jeff Cooper Thread

mtgianni said:
I believe he had several good points to make but so do many on the stools at most bars. What I like most is his assertation that a 30--30 is a better assault rifle than an AR.
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His reasoning is that when it run out of ammo it made a heavier & handier club ?
 
Alpo said:
"editorial we"
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I remember in his "Random Thoughts" column stating that his use of "we" was due to him being an editor, those who had an issue with it were invited to go back to school. He was - Editor at large (whatever that is...) of G&A - this used to be standard formal usage for editors to refer to themselves - not sure if it still is.

As to him propagating the 1911 45, he wasn't the only one - weren't there more than a few hackles raised when the US Army chose a double action 9mm 30 years ago? Then again, many were instructors at Gunsite...:)
 
Always enjoyed his writings, and I am pleased that Combat Handguns reprints some of his columns. He wrote well, and while he was opinionated-who amongst us isn't-so were many of his fellow writers. I felt a personal sense of loss on his passing.
 
When I was 17 another high school student loaned me his copy of "Fighting Handguns". What the man said and how he said it made a big impression on me, then and now. He made you think, and that's a big deal.

I also like John Boyd's work, but I'll make up my own mind, thank you.
 
I use to love to read about anything Cooper wrote and I think he really had an impact on the shooting world. I remember when very few people had a high regard for the 9m/m and I bet a lot of those feelings were because of things Cooper said. He was such a good salesman he could convince people that if they didn't have an expenive Steyr Scout rifle they might as well give up. The truth is, about any .308 youth rifle with a low power variable scope would perform just as well.
 
I wrote him once asking his opinion of the Browning Hi-Power.
He wrote back but I can't remember what he said in his letter.
This was in the early 80's.

wyo-man
 
He mentioned it in passing in "Fighting Handguns", 1959. Something to the effect that he liked the ergonomics if you added a "speed safety", and that if made in .40 caliber it would be a pretty good gun. Needless to say he was not a fan of the 9 in the available loads back then...

That was a LONG time ago! Angie Dickinson had just come on the scene.
 
Once upon a time I used to read his articles, etc. Same as with Keith, Carmichael, O'Connor, Skelton and Milek. They are now all dead and gone. So is the world they once knew. Still, fun to read some of their stuff. Have a copy of Keith's little book on handguns and handloading by the bed and of course his "Hell I Was There" is nearby.

As to the practical everyday matters of shooting and hitting and what particular types of firearms to choose, some but not all of what they wrote still applies. It's like reading Wheelen or Sharp on rifles or Ackley on cartridges, the world has moved on. The same applies to handguns, etc. One day I will hopefully find and buy a 1974 Chevy Nova which I will then rebuild, paint. It will be close to the Nova of my teenaged years, the one I would have painted and fixed up if all my money hadn't been going for college expenses, books and my future wife. It will not be the biggest baddest thing on the road, but I will enjoy it. For a road trip, etc., I'll take the Toyota that is currently sitting in the driveway. It's about the same thing with firearms. I have a 1903-A3 that I had converted into a 1903-A4orgery... i.e., the 1903-A4 of the WWII era, the rifle that I have never had a dogs chance of owning. This year it will be my deer rifle as it is already my go to range/field rifle. Once I would have only carried a 03-A3 or M-1 Garand. For up close... maybe 100 yds., I still do. But in the woods/fields, one cannot be sure when the shot will be hard off the muzzle and when it will be down a power line, so I carry the 03-A4orgery. There are many better rifle designs available. Just about any modern sporter bolt-action rifle will produce better groups with less fiddling around. For what the 03-A4orgery ended up costing, a heavy barreled scoped rifle could have been bought. But, the 04orgery was what I wanted. The world has of course left such rifles behind. But, I, I look at that rifle and it speaks to me. What more reason does one need..
 
While I didn't agree with some of his opinions, I respected him.

I think the essence of Cooper is simply saying "no" to infantilization and supine helplessness. I've been doing that for a long time, and it always sends the proponents of those qualities into an insane rage. That just makes me want to do it more.
 
I think he started to believe his own bull. IMHO His early stuff was ok, but I stopped reading his later stuff.
 
I guess that I hoping to get some comments on the cartoonish looking rifle.
It looks like something from a superhero movie.
And it's not in a Jeff Cooper Museum, it's in a official NRA Museum.
Probably money is involved. It usually is.
It just don't look like anything that Jeff Cooper would have an involvement with.
I had no idea how much so many of you disliked Jeff Cooper.
I do now.
 
brucev said:
Once upon a time I used to read his articles, etc. Same as with Keith, Carmichael, O'Connor, Skelton and Milek. They are now all dead and gone. So is the world they once knew. Still, fun to read some of their stuff. Have a copy of Keith's little book on handguns and handloading by the bed and of course his "Hell I Was There" is nearby.

As to the practical everyday matters of shooting and hitting and what particular types of firearms to choose, some but not all of what they wrote still applies. It's like reading Wheelen or Sharp on rifles or Ackley on cartridges, the world has moved on. The same applies to handguns, etc. One day I will hopefully find and buy a 1974 Chevy Nova which I will then rebuild, paint. It will be close to the Nova of my teenaged years, the one I would have painted and fixed up if all my money hadn't been going for college expenses, books and my future wife. It will not be the biggest baddest thing on the road, but I will enjoy it. For a road trip, etc., I'll take the Toyota that is currently sitting in the driveway. It's about the same thing with firearms. I have a 1903-A3 that I had converted into a 1903-A4orgery... i.e., the 1903-A4 of the WWII era, the rifle that I have never had a dogs chance of owning. This year it will be my deer rifle as it is already my go to range/field rifle. Once I would have only carried a 03-A3 or M-1 Garand. For up close... maybe 100 yds., I still do. But in the woods/fields, one cannot be sure when the shot will be hard off the muzzle and when it will be down a power line, so I carry the 03-A4orgery. There are many better rifle designs available. Just about any modern sporter bolt-action rifle will produce better groups with less fiddling around. For what the 03-A4orgery ended up costing, a heavy barreled scoped rifle could have been bought. But, the 04orgery was what I wanted. The world has of course left such rifles behind. But, I, I look at that rifle and it speaks to me. What more reason does one need..
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Did Jim Carmichel die? I haven't seen any notice of it. May have missed the announcement.

I considered Jeff Cooper to be very bright, innovative, and articulate. He was also arrogant and opinionated. I corresponded with him occasionally and read most of what he wrote. Only met him once, briefly. The personal meeting confirmed my earlier opinion. I still think he was/is well worth reading. That doesn't mean that I always agreed with him.
 
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I read just about everything he wrote. I trained under him at Gunsite. Yes, he was opinionated and a bit "full of himself". Yes, I didn't always agree with him. I don't recall any others that were challenging the status quo of firearms training in his early "practical pistol" years though. His writings and teachings made us reevaluate our perceptions of practical firearms usage, and for that I am very glad. PPC was not "practical". Cooper (though flawed) brought us closer to it. Thank you Colonel Cooper. (H e was also a gentleman in all my dealings with him, but still pushed us beyond where we thought we could or should go.)
 
I don't doubt that Mr. Cooper developed an oversized ego over the years. Who would not have with tens of thousands hanging on your every word?

40 + years ago, I exchanged a series of letters with Mr. Cooper. I found him to be informative, pleasant, and respectful to what in hindsight were some fairly uninformed questions on my part.
 
I look back over the years of reading all the top writers in the gun world and it seems to me they all tell the same story, their life around guns. I enjoyed the reading and miss the writers.
 
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