Another minor issue with SW22 Victory

[Aussie From Aussie]

I've achieved a truce with the takedown screw backing out by simply tightening really really tight. I just wonder if it will wear out from putting that much torque on it. We'll see. You can call it a design issue or not, propose solutions like Loctite or not, but either way I don't like it. I'm not going to change my mind about that.

A few days ago I put about 150 rounds through it, switching off between the 2 mags. After a while, if I loaded 10 rounds, the second one failed to feed and was deformed in the bargain (bullet bent down from the case mouth). This happened every time after shooting a few dozen rounds. Upon examination I discovered that the mag follower was semi-stuck with a full mag. It was pushing up very slowly. Fed the first round because it was already at the top, but failed the second because the mag has to feed the round as fast as the bolt is cycling, and it wasn't even close. This did not occur if I only loaded 5 or 6, so that's what I did for the rest of the range outing.

When I got home I cleaned the mags thoroughly and oiled them. On my latest range trip I didn't have the problem. OK, gotta oil the mags. It's a polymer follower in a plated steel body. Shouldn't need lubrication. Compared to Ruger .22mags, these things feel cheap and flimsy. They don't take down for cleaning like a proper mag: you have to stick something in the slots and pull the spring away from the baseplate. Cheap.

On the plus side, the gun feels good in the hand, is nice and muzzle heavy as a target pistol should be, trigger isn't bad, shoots reasonably well, and the mag release is where it should be.

By and large I'm a big fan of S&W, mostly their revolvers. I was excited by the idea of this pistol, as it seemed like it would be easy to clean and I liked the way it looks. So far, I have to say I'm kind of disappointed. My old (bought it used in '96) Ruger MK II bull barrel target pistol is a better gun.

(New to this. Hope I'm doing this right); I'd feel the same as you Old School. Eventually I reckon the thread would weaken and eventually strip. On a mate's suggestion I dribbled a bit of nail polish, that's right, what chicks put on their long finger nails to stop them from breaking, a bit of nail polish on the top threads after cleaning all threads with metho and blowing them off. I tightened it quite firmly without going overboard and it didn't move after 500+ rounds.
It took a bit of pressure to eventually break the bond but everything was OK.
Incidentally I have a Mk3 Ruger and I compared both mags. I've never had reason to disassemble either of them but I felt the quality of both were even. However, the Victory spring was definitely a shade weaker than the Ruger which brings me to the failure to chamber prob. Once again on advice I stripped it down and thoroughly cleaned it and with a wire brush and strong lead remover I gave it a hiding scrubbing like buggery just at the barrel entrance. I wasn't game to use a drill as my mate suggested but next day I fired off 85 rounds with one eject failure which was a first but all chambered OK. I cleaned and lubed it with Ballistol squirting it freely inside the mag and blowing it out with compressed air. So far so good fingers crossed.
I agree with you in that the Victory has a lovely grip but the Ruger is a better gun and certainly looks more like a real gun. Having said this, I bought a second Mk3 Ruger which was an absolute bummer! Couldn't get 3 shots off without failing to eject. Fixed it with a Volquartsen extractor but the trigger is terrible. I'm looking to replace that with a VQ as well. You wouldn't believe two identical guns could be so different.
Here's to ya......Aussie From Aussie

 

[Barrie]

Aussie Welcome to the forum. I suggest you try using a no.61 O-ring on the barrel screw and then tighten it down to around 40 inch lbs of torque. You won't need any more nail polish on the threads by doing this. The O-rings are very cheap and will last for many years as well.

 

[haertig]

My first trip to the range with the Victory resulted in a loosened takedown screw. I figured I might have gotten some lube in there when I initially cleaned and oiled the gun before that first shoot. Now, before I reattach the barrel, I spray a Q-Tip with automotive brake cleaner and then revolve it around in the screws hole, and then wipe the screw down with the wet Q-Tip. Then I tighten normally, maybe a tad "over" normal, with a standard allen wrench. I've never had a loosening problem since. The screw stays tight no matter how many hundreds of rounds I put through the gun in a shooting session. At the next cleaning, there is a definite "snap" sound as the screw breaks loose. I was initially worried about this, but it appears to be harmless. I think I might try the O-ring that has been mentioned here, just to get rid of that "snap" sound when I break the screw loose for cleaning. Even though that appears harmless, my brain is still worried about it in the back of my mind.

BTW, my Victory has never jammed, failed to feed, failed to extract, or malfunction in any way over the approximately 2000 rounds I've put through it (if you ignore that one initial instance of barrel loosening). Generally I shoot Aguila Super Extra high velocity rounds (pretty equivalent to CCI MiniMags in my experience). But I've also put some crappy bulk ammos like Federal through the Victory with zero problems. I was glad to see the Victory could stomach that Federal junk. My other .22LR pistols hate it and jam quite a bit with it. The Victory assisted me in "getting rid of it". Thanks Victory! My experience is the Victory will work with every .22LR ammo I've tried in it, and do so flawlessly (about six different offerings I've tried).

I prefer the Victory over my old Ruger Mark II Target and my Ruger Mark III 22/45 Lite and my Ruger SR22. Those are all good guns too, but I just prefer the Victory. They are all roughly equivalent in accuracy (maybe not the SR22, but it's still decent). My preference for the Victory is probably because the Rugers all jam on occasion, are more ammo sensitive, and are more sensitive to being dirty ... whereas the Victory just goes and goes and goes. The Victory has earned a permanent place in my ready-to-go range bag. It goes on every shooting expedition. I put a Vortex Venom 3 MOA red-dot on the Victory, and that combination is very nice.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Federal & CCI sent my Victory back to the factory 3 times now, get her back tomorrow.

 

[racemi]

Ed Fowler,

What are we looking at? I can tell that they are .22 LR cases, but what the heck happened to them?

I don't see how that can happen INSIDE a chamber.

Were they stuck in the chamber and this is what they looked like when you dug them out?

Please, give us more information. Also, what were the other problems you sent it back for?

 

[Ed Fowler]

You are looking at the result of a huge overload. Was much louder than any normal 22 I have ever shot, much black smoke out of the action, and it blew the extractor out of the pistol S&W repaired it and had to replace the barrel, bolt, extractor and firing pin.

Action was in battery when I pulled the trigger, I had been doing some long range shooting and put the safety on after every shot to check bullet impact at 100 yards through my field glasses. I can post many more photos, but you get the idea.

I have had three of these events in the last year and 1/2, one with CCI Blazer, one with Federal Target and this one with Federal Auto Match. Federal claims they fired out of battery, I know it was in battery when it fired and believe the extra pressure opened the action before the bullet had left the barrel thus the case ruptured.

I usually shoot over 100 rounds a day, I know this is not a common event and the odds are against it happening but I am tired of it and tired of it happening to me and hearing CCI and Federal customer service blaming the firearm.

Smith & Wesson just keeps fixing it and I am thankful that Smith & Wesson backs their product 200%.

Thanks for asking.

I still have the box of Federal Auto Match ammo, only shot abut 30 before this happened. The ones I fired were very irregular, BANG, pop, boom kind of stuff, very lacking in accuracy. I kept the box and plan on weighing all the cartridges and then maybe play with the manufacturers. If anybody wants to shoot some of it, stop by but bring your own firearm.

 

[Tpsfoto]

I have put over 650 rounds of Federal Automatch ....and 200 rounds of Federal Champion.....no issues at all.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Ed Fowler,

I have two 22 Victorys, one is box stock and the other has a Volquartsen barrel and other goodies. I also have a Ruger Mark III 22/45 Lite which I use along with the Victory to shoot speed steel matches. I am using Federal AutoMatch in all these guns. The AutoMatch ammo is very inconsistent from round to round. I have encountered rounds that are very wimpy and others that are noticeably HOT! No blowouts or other mishaps YET.

Your blown out brass is amazing and looks exactly like an OOB which many of us have seen in S&W 15-22s. I don't doubt you but can't imagine how it happens.

 

[Ed Fowler]

They tell me the rounds are OOB, I know that not one of them fired out of battery.

My gun smith and I have been working with it for some time, tried to make some fire OOB and can't make it happen.

We have come up with the following hypothesis: The round comes into battery, fires and the bullet starts down the barrel, the pressure is too great and the action opens before the bullet has left the barrel, therefore the case is the weakest point and it blows.

We have pulled bullets and tried to make 22 rim fires fire OOB and can't make it happen in a well made firearm.

Overcharges simply blow the case, sometimes damage the firearm.

Some cartridges detonate, in my experience these are very loud, produce much black smoke that blows out of the action, depending on the firearm some out of the trigger, sends extractors flying, damages actions and barrels. I feel these are double charges or more of priming compound.

Mistakes are going to happen both in the firearms and in the ammunition, I just hate to see the firearms makers take the mistakes of the ammunition folks on the chin.

 

[haertig]

They tell me the rounds are OOB, I know that not one of them fired out of battery.

How do you determine this?

You said you had three of these incidents in the last 1-1/2 years, that sounds more like a firearm problem than an ammunition problem at first glance. Many shooters never see this type of event, or maybe only one or two in their lives. You're seeing it very frequently (relatively speaking), and with different types/brands of ammo, all in the same gun.

I wonder if somehow your ammo could be getting contaminated with oils, moisture, etc. Causing the powder to have a slower burn rate than it should. Could that cause something like you are suggesting with "bullet still in the barrel when action starts to open"? I don't know. Just speculating, based on the fact that you're having so many of these failures. It's either got to be the gun, or some common defect in the ammo, possibly brought on by the environment you're storing the ammo in.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Two different firearms, Wind Mod 61 was my first experience, as with all rounds discussed in this series was shooting groups at 100 yards. Mod 61 will not fire out of battery. Blew extractor over 30 feet from action.

Other two were with the same Victory, that has now been back to the factory 3 times. No shots were rapid fire, and we could not get my Victory to fire out of battery.

All with new ammo, purchased within weeks of shooting it.

I fully realize that I am experiencing more than my share of these events and am more than willing to share with others.

I post them up in the hopes of maybe keeping someone from getting hurt.

I thank you for your thoughts.

 

[haertig]

I must have misread your previous posts. I thought ALL of your failures like this were with the Victory. So I was looking for the common element. What is common to all these failures? The Victory (or so I mistakenly thought at the time), and probably the storage conditions for the ammo. Other than that, everything else appears randomized from your description. There's got to be some common factor that is causing these failures for you. Finding that common factor can be difficult though. But once found, usually you slap yourself in the face and say, "So obvious, I should have thought of that!"

I'm an engineer BTW, in case it doesn't show!

 

[Ed Fowler]

It shows and I appreciate your thoughts. I think that after 68 years of shooting the odds caught up to me for a while.

 

[S&WIowegan]

Is it possible the cause could be altitude related?

 

[haertig]

I shoot my SW22 mostly at 5300 feet and 9000 feet, about equal between those two elevations. And I put about 500 rounds through it at 450 feet elevation this fall. I haven't noticed any changes/differences in how it shoots/performs based on those three data points.

 

[Ed Fowler]

We are definitely gaining data, I get mine back tomorrow from S&W.
Will try shooting at differing angles to the sun.

 

[lgbarrel]

S&W Victory "volquartsen" laminated target grips causing mags to drop out

New to Forum, If I'm not doing this correctly I apologize up front.
Having a problem with Volquartsen target grips on S&W victory.
once on release the bolt, mag drops. Anyone had this problem.
Volquartsen sent me another set same problem. It seems to be all in the mag release extension.
Thanks for any help
Lgbarrel

 

[Barrie]

Igbarrel Welcome to the Forum. Sorry to hear you are having problems with the new grips. Obviously they are somehow pushing on the mag release button just enough to make it not lock in properly. I would have a real close up look at where they meet up right by the mag release button to see whats causing it to stick and open it up.

 

[NewS&W-V22Owner]

V-22 problem >> mag release?

I'm a new v-22 owner. I've put 1,500 rounds through it.
No takedown nut problems, but I'll buy the o-rings for when it happens.
I just experienced the 2nd round feeding problem at the range. The 1st round fed with the slide release, but 2nd round failed on 4 of the 6 mags I use.
I also had a problem with the mags getting stuck and not ejecting. They were catching on something. Only released about an inch, then they got caught. I couldn't pull them out. I twisted and turned them slightly, aware not to damage, with no success.
I thought it might be the newest 2 mags I just bought, but no. It's started happening and I couldn't correct it on multiple mags. Ended my range session frustrated and disappointed in gun manufacturing.
Anyone have same experience?
Anyone have an idea on how to correct problem?
Thanks

 

[Barrie]

NewS&W-V22Owner Welcome to the forum from Canada. Have you taken this gun apart and given it a real good cleaning as yet. I would pull the grips off even and have a look behind them to see what may be causing it to stick this way.Could be some factory metal filings in there and or excessive grease or even both possibly. Sometimes it does not take much to cause a problem on a new gun. If you can not figure it out send it back to S&W who will repair it for free.