Any ideas why Smith & Wesson made the M & P Sport without

[Plazzman]

To give a person that is a little short on cash a chance to own and experience the beauty of a AR without all the bells and whistles. When his pocket book gets bigger then he can make it bigger and better to his liking.

 

[nitewatchman]

Some people just like the plain upper. And I can't remember a time when either the FA or Dust Cover really made any difference in what I was doing.

I used a Sport Stripped Upper to build up my .204Ruger Varmint Rifle. Looked for it until I found one.

I like the "slick side" for this type of rifle since it doesn't get used to chase Al-Qaida through the bushes and river bottoms.

Would like to find another to assemble a .22LR Pistol. The lower assembled without a buffer tube has that evil Broom Handle Mauser look to it.

nitewatchman

 

[ESW]

I personally think it is for two reasons. 1. Cost, it lowers cost and they can sell them for less and 2. and more importantly, a first time buyer may buy a sport then listen to people on forums tell him he should have spent a few more bucks and for and M&P15 with FA. Smith has now sold two guns instead of just one. I like Smith a lot, but it's purely marketing IMO. All companies do it.

 

[HKP2000V2]

I have a M&P-15T, and I don't really need the forward assist or dust cover function, but the dust cover opening makes the upper easier to clean IMHO.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Forward Assist, and Dust Cover. Seems like not much more cost when doing a production run?

To get the lowest possible price point. Plain and simple. Truthfully, the prices on AR type rifles are way inflated. That rifle was designed to take advantage of modern production methods, but you would not know it from the prices charged.

 

[easyliving]

yes, over inflated

about 600.00 over inflated in most cases

my m and p 15 w/o FA dust cover ---699.99
others about 1200.00 plus

 

[easyliving]

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I heard this, not known if true, (rumor) but the weapon was supposed to be introduced as a entry level AR-15 type weapon for beginners. Also, without the dust cover and FA, it didn't look so imposing as a assault weapon like others. Thus the sporting gun title.

Well, this little entry weapon can do as much damage in the hands of a skilled shooter or one just trained. The bullet no know difference.

By the way, mine hates any thing metal.......will jam. May be the reason I have chips inside the upper receiver caused by the cam pin.

 

[kb18no1]

Also, without the dust cover and FA, it didn't look so imposing as a assault weapon like others. Thus the sporting gun title.

Gun Grabbers wouldn't know notice the difference. I'm sure it looks the same to them.

Manufacturers are going to Modern Sporting Rifles so it is a more friendly name than assault weapon.

I wouldn't assume they called it sport because it looks less like an assault weapon.

 

[dannybot]

I took the dust cover off of my 3gun AR, it just got in the way. I don't have a dirt problem either, even though I shoot prone in the dry, dust, drought ridden conditions of Texas and frequently have to abandon the rifles on the ground. The forward assist has come in handy on guns that won't cycle properly, but you don'y usually see that on factory rifles.

As has been mentioned, if you save $10-$20 per rifle, it adds up.

 

[M29since14]

...Most rational folks figure that if the weapon won't feed as designed, you should find and fix the problem, not beat on it.

Well put, Mr. Moore. (Of course, if someone is trying to kill you, one might be inclined to try a little beating if all else has failed. )

I do not shoot thousands and thousands of rounds through my ARs in a year, but they do get fired a fair bit. The last time I "tapped" on a forward-assist all I did was make things worse.

I think the answer to the question is two-fold. Sure it saves a little money and gives you a chance to buy S&W ("major" brand) instead of brand-x for the same money. Also can serve to kick you up into more $$$ if you are the type to insist on those features.

I agree with the writer who said that for a sport shooter, the features are basically useless. My Sport runs like a truck and has been very accurate. Must have a good barrel.

 

[jss4uva]

The short answer is to save money.From a manufacturing standpoint, the upper is machined from a solid piece of 7075 aluminum. If you look at the attached pic, to have the forward assist and the dustcover features machined out of the solid "chunk", the material has to be over 2" nominal thickness to machine down to size. For the sport, the material only has to to be 1.5" nominal thickness to achieve the final product. This equates to less wasted material you are machining away, less raw material ordered, less shipping cost (less weight) etc. Over a run of several thousand this can add up to a tremendous savings.

 

[M29since14]

...From a manufacturing standpoint, the upper is machined from a solid piece of 7075 aluminum.

I would have thought S&W would use a forging for both, but having a look at their website it doesn't say so. Both the FA-models and the Sport simply say 7075 T-6 (material).

Naturally, if they are actually using barstock for both the FA- and Sport-models, the savings in machining for the Sport-model would be huge, but I doubt they do that.

 

[jss4uva]

Yeah you are probably right. So it would just be the material savings and machining cost of just those features

 

[wordslinger]

Picked one up yesterday for a good price, and shot it today. I bought this rifle with value in mind, as my son (12) was eager to shoot it with me. We were discussing the "economized" aspects of the Sport on the way home from the range, with big smiles of course, and we agreed that our "next" AR platform would have all the bells and whistles. Ours shot great, and I feel great about the purchase.

 

[JaPes]

Picked one up yesterday for a good price, and shot it today.

Congrats and welcome aboard!

we agreed that our "next" AR platform would have all the bells and whistles. Ours shot great, and I feel great about the purchase.

I chuckled when I read this. I have two AR-15's: a 15-Sport and a full featured AR I assembled. My 15-Sport ended up with all the aftermarket bells and whistles. The full feature AR (dust cover, forward assist) is the iron sight, no frills, KISS rifle. Your 15-Sport may end up with more bells and whistles than you planned on.

 

[WR Moore]

Back in my college economy classes I learned that items sell for around 5 times the cost of production. Of course this varies between a bag of potato chips and a new Cadillac, but it would be interesting to learn the real cost to manufacture each.
.

The gent who postulated the 500% markup never met a cost accountant. Although it does matter how many times the product changes hands. The general rule of thumb is that every time the product changes hands, the price goes up 30%.

So...... if we assume that MSRP of an item is $1000 and it goes factory, to distributor to retail outlet, the factory got about $400. [ Yeah, the exact figure is a wee bit different, this is a generalized example.] Technically, this also includes 'profit'. The cost accountant will tell you that 'profit' is part of your costs. Otherwise, you (and your investors/stockholders) would just park your money somewhere where the return was better. The company/factory could not and would not exist if profit wasn't included.














5

 

[Maddmax]

Funny thing. That ("cheap"),stock, basic, bare bones 1-8 5R Sport shoots just as good as the rest of my MSR's and hasn't given me any troubles what so ever. AND it gets treated just the same as any of the others "flavor" MSR's" I have. NONE are safe queens or babied.

Half the time the dust covers are never (remembered anyway) to get closed except after cleaning... Using the FA is/can just be adding to a problem or just creating a bigger one. BANG !!! and loss of your upper/barrel. If it (bullet), don't fit. Forcing things never works out for the best.

They made it so anyone could afford a GOOD basic, reliable MSR at a very reasonal price and also be able to build off at your own pace and choise.

 

[Kilibreaux]

Forward Assist, and Dust Cover. Seems like not much more cost when doing a production run?

Considering the sheer number of mil-spec receivers that come with fwd assist mounting point one is forced to wonder WHY anyone would come up with a receiver lacking such. The answer is that the FA is pretty much not needed. The AR pattern rifles generally chamber just fine, and if you want to avoid the added cost of parts and installation of a FA, you might as well specify YOUR upper receivers come sans FA capability.
Same with the dust cover...dust covers are all about extreme conditions...MOST civilian purchasers of AR type rifles BABY them...and even those who shoot bazillions of rounds on some range while imagining themselves the next SWAT sensation, don't carry them around for weeks or months under field conditions where dirt can enter the ejection port. Again, the parts and labor cost to mount the ejection port cover add up so why not leave it off when you KNOW your consumer will never put the rifle in such conditions.
The port cover is designed to protect the gas piston system located inside the bolt carrier...those tiny holes located in the depressed section of the carrier...not really needed at all unless one is definitely going to be wading streams and low-crawling in much and brain goo.

 

[uncledoggle]

Amazing, this thread has been going on for almost a month. Maybe S&W should consider installing a "Dead Horse" button on their next receiver innovation.