Any negatives to buying a 686 no dash?
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the S&W model 686 is one fine .357 magnum revolver. any of the prelock generation, in good condition, at the right price will be a good choice.
here are the changes of the various generations.....
Originally Posted by valkyriekl
The 686 was introduced in the 1980 as the S&W Model 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum Stainless. It featured flash-chromed, forged hammer and trigger, and had a 6-shot cylinder.
-1 (1986): radius stud package, introduction of the floating hand.
The "M" recall (1987) for the no-dash and -1 guns was to fit a new hammer nose and firing pin bushing to deal with certain brands of ammo causing (potentially fatal) binding when fired.
-2 (1987) incorporated the "M" recall features as standard production.
-3 (1988) floating hand deleted, new yoke retention system
-4 (1993, apparently the most desirable) included a drilled-and-tapped frame, the introduction of the "+" model with 7 shots, flash-chromed hammer/trigger deleted (case-hardened only), new extractor, start shipping with round-butt frame only (no square-butt)
-5 (1997) change to MIM hammer and trigger and frame-mounted firing pin, as well as the frame lug being machined as part of the frame (prior to this it was a separate part, fitted to and pressed into the frame).
-6 (2001, current production) has The Lock
before purchasing any hand gun, make sure you check or have the seller:.. advise the condition of: 1. bore 2. lock up 3. timing 4. forcing cone 5. area above forcing cone (flame cutting) 6. extractor rod 7. firing pin... Any rust and/or pitting on the frame, cylinder, bore, under the grips?... Any frame damage?
here are the changes of the various generations.....
Originally Posted by valkyriekl
The 686 was introduced in the 1980 as the S&W Model 686 Distinguished Combat Magnum Stainless. It featured flash-chromed, forged hammer and trigger, and had a 6-shot cylinder.
-1 (1986): radius stud package, introduction of the floating hand.
The "M" recall (1987) for the no-dash and -1 guns was to fit a new hammer nose and firing pin bushing to deal with certain brands of ammo causing (potentially fatal) binding when fired.
-2 (1987) incorporated the "M" recall features as standard production.
-3 (1988) floating hand deleted, new yoke retention system
-4 (1993, apparently the most desirable) included a drilled-and-tapped frame, the introduction of the "+" model with 7 shots, flash-chromed hammer/trigger deleted (case-hardened only), new extractor, start shipping with round-butt frame only (no square-butt)
-5 (1997) change to MIM hammer and trigger and frame-mounted firing pin, as well as the frame lug being machined as part of the frame (prior to this it was a separate part, fitted to and pressed into the frame).
-6 (2001, current production) has The Lock
before purchasing any hand gun, make sure you check or have the seller:.. advise the condition of: 1. bore 2. lock up 3. timing 4. forcing cone 5. area above forcing cone (flame cutting) 6. extractor rod 7. firing pin... Any rust and/or pitting on the frame, cylinder, bore, under the grips?... Any frame damage?
vytoland - Thank you very much for your time and the VERY helpful information. I am not going to bid on the no dash model and wait for the proper updated models. i think you just saved me a lot of grief-thanks.
This is a great forum and with great members!
This is a great forum and with great members!
geoff40
Member
Skeete
I've owned several no dash 686s, currently I have 3 of them. Some of them I've owned did not had the modification done, you can tell because when this update was done (factory or authorized service center) there was/is an M stamped inside the crane area.
Most of the 686s you'll see will have the M, and you're passing up on some mighty fine revolvers if you're excluding the no dash guns from your search. Just make sure there is an M stamped inside the crane and you're good to go.
I wouldn't pass on any 686 just because it is a no dash. Those I've shot that did not have the modification shot just fine, no problems. Never personally met anyone who had a problem with one.
Also they will still do this update, for nothing, if you have some place nearby that is an authorized repair/service center. At this point it might take a smith a few days to get the part needed to do the work.
I've owned several no dash 686s, currently I have 3 of them. Some of them I've owned did not had the modification done, you can tell because when this update was done (factory or authorized service center) there was/is an M stamped inside the crane area.
Most of the 686s you'll see will have the M, and you're passing up on some mighty fine revolvers if you're excluding the no dash guns from your search. Just make sure there is an M stamped inside the crane and you're good to go.
I wouldn't pass on any 686 just because it is a no dash. Those I've shot that did not have the modification shot just fine, no problems. Never personally met anyone who had a problem with one.
Also they will still do this update, for nothing, if you have some place nearby that is an authorized repair/service center. At this point it might take a smith a few days to get the part needed to do the work.
JCS&W
US Veteran
There really is no good reason to eliminate the M686 no dash from your search. Price should be the determining factor, not whether or not it has been returned to the factory for the recall work. I have two M586's and a M686 all without the "M" stamp. Never given me a moments problem. However, I do not carry these guns as a part of my job. If you were to find a nice price M686 with out the "M" stamp, S&W will send you a shipping label, and properly take care of the issue. Let the price decide whether to buy or not regardless of the dash number.
snubbiefan
Member
The "M" is what got me out of a no-dash. I sent mine home for the bushing and firing pin update and when I got it back....it looked like the janitor had performed the upgrades. (Not meant as an insult to house-service personnel.). Point being...a good gunsmith can drive-out the bushing and replace it with skill to make it look like a professional job. Others on the forum here debate the value and risk of sending the gun home for the upgrade. My no-dash found a new home and I have the dash-4....which as has been mentioned, seems to be considered as the most desirable example. I would purchase another no-dash if one comes-by for a fair price, but I would also look at the upgraded bushing closely if it has the "M" modification. If you find one that you can hardly tell it has ever been changed, you have found one in which somebody took the time to do it right.
My upgrade resulted in a ridge of metal around the bushing that made it appear as if they wedged an empty beer-can between the bushing and the frame.
My upgrade resulted in a ridge of metal around the bushing that made it appear as if they wedged an empty beer-can between the bushing and the frame.
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cornfed83
Member
The biggest problem I would see with buying an older 686 is that they don't make them like they used to, and once you get one you're going to want more.
AveragEd
Member
I'm sorry to hear of snubbie's experience with the "M" update. I have two 6" no-dash 686s, one that had the update and one that didn't. That update really is meaningless to me because I don't shoot hot .357s - my hunting revolvers are 629s.
I have two 686-4s, a very nice 4" gun that is all-original and was only shot to sight it in and an unfired 6" PowerPort. While I like them, I much prefer square-butt guns and don't even try to buy -4s or newer. Don't forget, none of those "pre-upgrade" dash versions were bad guns. Those upgrades don't do much if anything to improve accuracy and the earlier 686s never were undependable in any way unless you fed some real fire-breathin' fodder to a no-dash gun.
As others have pointed out, there is no reason to avoid no-dash 686s. Smith & Wesson learned a lot about reliability from their K-frames and that is what gave birth to the L-frame idea in the first place.
Ed
I have two 686-4s, a very nice 4" gun that is all-original and was only shot to sight it in and an unfired 6" PowerPort. While I like them, I much prefer square-butt guns and don't even try to buy -4s or newer. Don't forget, none of those "pre-upgrade" dash versions were bad guns. Those upgrades don't do much if anything to improve accuracy and the earlier 686s never were undependable in any way unless you fed some real fire-breathin' fodder to a no-dash gun.
As others have pointed out, there is no reason to avoid no-dash 686s. Smith & Wesson learned a lot about reliability from their K-frames and that is what gave birth to the L-frame idea in the first place.
Ed
The fact of the matter is that all no dash 686's had the problem that started the recall. I've owned 3 and still have one that wasn't ever sent in and none of them had the problem that caused the recall. If it does have the problem S&W will still fix it under the recall and they don't mess up every gun sent in for work as I've seen lots of them with the M that looked great.
BobR1
Member
If memory serves me, I believe the problem was pretty much ammunition related. I believe Federal Brand 357 Magnum ammo had soft primers flowing back into the Firing Pin Bushing locking the guns up.
Federal primers are well known to reloaders as having soft easy to ignite primers. Normally this is a good thing when you are running a match revolver with a really good DA trigger pull shooting 38 Specials.
If you are running 357 Magnum ammo with harder primers I doubt you ever have a problem with an unmodified gun. I have had my current 686-1 for over 20 years. It is the wifes house gun. I am not sure I have ever fired a 357 Magnum round in it. Mine is M Stamped by the way.
I would not worry to much about the Dash, Find one you like, and buy it. I have even considered a NEW 3" 686 Plus as a carry gun.
Bob
Federal primers are well known to reloaders as having soft easy to ignite primers. Normally this is a good thing when you are running a match revolver with a really good DA trigger pull shooting 38 Specials.
If you are running 357 Magnum ammo with harder primers I doubt you ever have a problem with an unmodified gun. I have had my current 686-1 for over 20 years. It is the wifes house gun. I am not sure I have ever fired a 357 Magnum round in it. Mine is M Stamped by the way.
I would not worry to much about the Dash, Find one you like, and buy it. I have even considered a NEW 3" 686 Plus as a carry gun.
Bob
foggood11
Member
Just bought a no-dash 681 and am as pleased as I can be, even though mine has not had the modification. I knew this going into the transaction and am still mulling over whether or not to send it back for the work, but am mostly leaning against it, for the reasons above.
If another 681 or 686 in good condition and priced fairly happens by, with or without the "M", I'll be looking.
Like my neighbor, Cornfed83 said, once you're hooked you're hooked!
If another 681 or 686 in good condition and priced fairly happens by, with or without the "M", I'll be looking.
Like my neighbor, Cornfed83 said, once you're hooked you're hooked!
snubbiefan
Member
I totally agree that not all the ones sent-in looked bad at all. I have seen several that I would not mind owning and in a stainless gun, the replacement issue is not all that noticeable. The guys with the 586's in blue or nickel are the ones that have serious reservations. I just received what I deemed a crappy-job...some look much better than others and I've seen quite a few. I had a conversation with a contracted gun smith that sent me pictures of some he had done for S&W as they out-sourced some of this work. His job....I would take, but one of the "rookies" on the line at Smith performed mine.
As far as being careful about what you shoot, I totally agree that if all you shoot is 38-special, or heavy standard 357 magnum, you're likely to never have a problem. I just won't own a gun that is ammo sensitive, known bad ammo notwithstanding. I think if it's chambered for 357....it ought to safely shoot ANY 357 round off the shelf that meets SAAMI specs. Just a head-thing I guess. There are some actual testimonials here on the forum in a few posts here-n-there that have reported the primer-flow problem locking-up the gun.
As far as being careful about what you shoot, I totally agree that if all you shoot is 38-special, or heavy standard 357 magnum, you're likely to never have a problem. I just won't own a gun that is ammo sensitive, known bad ammo notwithstanding. I think if it's chambered for 357....it ought to safely shoot ANY 357 round off the shelf that meets SAAMI specs. Just a head-thing I guess. There are some actual testimonials here on the forum in a few posts here-n-there that have reported the primer-flow problem locking-up the gun.
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Sailfish 40
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I see buying a no dash no m stamped gun as a positive. it earns a free trip back to the factory and while there you can have custom work done.
^ This...
You really cant go wrong with any of the 586/686's until the -5 when they started getting cheap (MIM)
gr7070
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There are very good reasons for not getting a no-dash 686.
1. If you, understandably, do not care about the dash changes you can possibly save yourself some money and buy a cheaper one. You could also possibly save some time, too, by not being picky.
2. If you want to replace the front sight it's integral to the frame and will be costly to replace, and far fewer are capable of doing this themselves.
3. If you want a round butt grip you're out of luck. If you all ready have conversion grips you want use you're out of luck.
4. Mounting optics will be more costly and more time consuming. It may also lower the value of your gun.
5. It may be unsafe without the "M".
6. If you want a Plus model you can't have a no-dash or a few others.
7. No lifetime warranty. Buying used you're technically not covered by any warranty. However, anecdotally, S&W appears to apply warranty coverage - to those guns that had the lifetime warranty - regardless of first owner or not. Which can provide value.
#2 is a deal breaker for me, although I'd likely be able to make a trade for one with a pinned sight.
#1 isn't necessarily a deal breaker, but for me and my usage I have no reasons to pay more for something that doesn't provide more value to me.
Contrary to the every-older-Smith-&-Wesson-is-a-better-Smith-&-Wesson rote opinion this absolutely is not true. Like so many things involving gun purchases *your intended use* is the biggest factor.
1. If you, understandably, do not care about the dash changes you can possibly save yourself some money and buy a cheaper one. You could also possibly save some time, too, by not being picky.
2. If you want to replace the front sight it's integral to the frame and will be costly to replace, and far fewer are capable of doing this themselves.
3. If you want a round butt grip you're out of luck. If you all ready have conversion grips you want use you're out of luck.
4. Mounting optics will be more costly and more time consuming. It may also lower the value of your gun.
5. It may be unsafe without the "M".
6. If you want a Plus model you can't have a no-dash or a few others.
7. No lifetime warranty. Buying used you're technically not covered by any warranty. However, anecdotally, S&W appears to apply warranty coverage - to those guns that had the lifetime warranty - regardless of first owner or not. Which can provide value.
#2 is a deal breaker for me, although I'd likely be able to make a trade for one with a pinned sight.
#1 isn't necessarily a deal breaker, but for me and my usage I have no reasons to pay more for something that doesn't provide more value to me.
Contrary to the every-older-Smith-&-Wesson-is-a-better-Smith-&-Wesson rote opinion this absolutely is not true. Like so many things involving gun purchases *your intended use* is the biggest factor.
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I carried a 686 in the mid eighties and never had an issue. I recently traded for a 686-4 2 1/2 inch and it is fast becoming my favorite all around gun. I can't imagine a downside to a 686. Except the price creep. One of the best. Your safe needs one.
RGMoore
Member
I bought my 686 in 1980. The only drawback is as stated by gr7070, you are stuck with the RR front sight. If you don't mind the RR, go for it.
sbeatty1983
Member
My no dash 686 has never given me a moments problem either. I have not had the modification done and I shoot some pretty hot handloads without problem.
skeete, As others have suggested mo reason to overlook a good deal on a no dash 686, the problems that caused the recall was limited to revolvers that had lots of .357 magnum ammo run through them in one range session and was not cleaned between shooting.
I have a 586 no dash, which is the carbon steel twin to the 686, it has not been modified, I've never had any problems with it. I trust it so much it's one of my ready revolvers for home and self defense.
I have a 586 no dash, which is the carbon steel twin to the 686, it has not been modified, I've never had any problems with it. I trust it so much it's one of my ready revolvers for home and self defense.
