Anyone Had the Barrel Lug Milled Off?

I beginning to see with most questions in the forum there are two distinct views. This is one of them. I don't care for the lug on S&W's, and have sold 625's because of it. The mountain guns were a breath of fresh air. It is, however, still a bit pricey to replace a lugged barrel with a "mountain" barrel. If done with finesse, as we see above, a modified gun looks good. Many buyer would never even know it was done on a stainless gun if done right. Collectors be damned! It's your gun. There are PLENTY of S&W's with the lugs for collectors, or they can just pay a little more if we "modifiers" reduce the collectible number to "rare" satus.
 
"Collector value is reduced" is a false argument against altering just about any production, post-WWII S&W handgun. If they were made in any significant number, they lost "collector" interest as soon as they were shot, or carried a bit in a holster, or the box and documents got lost, or the grips were switched, or the sights were changed to something the shooter liked better.

"Collectors" seem to want pristine, unfired guns with the original packaging and contents. The exceptions to this are factory variations that are really old or models that are rare, i.e. manufactured in very limited quantities. Offer an original finish, unaltered example of, say, a Model 19-3 with no box or papers and some blue wear to a "collector" and he will "sniff-sniff" with contempt. "It's not collector quality..."

I think that the full-lug barrels are great for shooting magnum rounds, but the weight is excessive for just carrying the gun around, and the problem gets worse as the barrel gets longer. When the L frame, full lug barrel M-686 first came out, I bought the first one I saw, a six incher. I had been carrying a 6 inch Model 66 at work, so the extra barrel length wasn't a problem, but the extra weight kept trying to pull my pants down! And this was on a Sam Browne rig! With a Combat Magnum or 1950 Target style barrel, this would have been the perfect uniform.357 Mag for me.

A 4 inch Combat Magnum or Model 29/629 full lug would make some sense to me, because the extra weight helps tame recoil in guns that actually produce recoil, but the 6 inch barrel supplies the extra weight without a lug. But S&W never made a 4 inch Combat Mag or M-29/629 with a full lug barrel. 3 inchers, but no 4 inchers! 'Splain me that!

I bought a Model 686 Mountain Gun and a Model 686 5 inch, non lug barrel. The slender tubes make them much faster handling and they are big and heavy enough already that recoil is manageable.

The full lug barrels on S&W handguns in .45 Colt and .45 ACP are really over-kill in the weight department. Neither round kicks hard enough to need extra weight.

I once had a M-686 with the 8-3/8 inch barrel with the scope ring cuts. It hardly recoiled at all, but it was so heavy, and particularly muzzle-heavy, that I couldn't hold it steady without a rest. Add a scope, and it waggled so much off-hand that it was hard to get it held on target long enough to trigger the shot. Perhaps lugged to the extreme!

The 5 and 5-1/2 inch M-627's are other good examples of full lug barrels in which the extra weight isn't needed.

For range use, it really doesn't matter. You aren't carrying the gun around all day. But for a gun that will be worn on a belt for 8, 10 or 12 hours at a time, while you are on foot a lot of it, the option of a standard weight barrel would be tremendous, and a custom job well worth the cost if you want it bad enough.

Like any collector is going to salivate over a 25 year old, holster-worn, standard, 4 inch Model 586 just because you haven't cut the lug off anyways!

Guys, these are tools, not religious artifacts; Moses didn't carry them around in the Ark of the Covenant for 40 years. They are just tools, and the common ones are just calling to be made more user-friendly, handy or personalized by modification. I'm not going to sweat the loss of $100-$200 resale value when I have gotten so much more pleasure from the gun after I personalized it.
 
I think he 686 might look good with the lug milled off and shaped like the ejector rod shrouds on the N frames or the M19/66.
Maybe something S&W should look into.
regards,
Ralph
 
S & W currently is marketing a sort of 2/3 lug 686, the SSR. It's significantly lighter, by 8 ounces, than its full-lugged sibling, the standard 686.
 
I don't know for sure, but I think my 4" 681 was at least as heavy as my 6" model 27! Kinda negates the need for the "intermediate" size frame!
icon_biggrin.gif
 
Anyone else? Personally, I'd love to be able to actually own a 4" 617 without the full lug, and might get around to buying one and getting it converted one day.
 
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"Personally, I'd love to be able to actually own a 4" 617 without the full lug, and might get around to buying one and getting it converted one day."

There were small numbers of Model 617's without the lug, in both 4 and 6 inch lengths, made in 1991 for Ashland Shooters Supply. There is a picture of one in SCS&W III. I always wanted a 4 incher without the full underlug on the barrel like that but never have run across one for sale.

I came close to having a Model 18 barrel Armaloyed or Metalifed and screwing it onto a regular Model 617. Then I thought, instead of that much trouble, maybe I should have a regular Model 18 Armaloyed or Metalifed or have some other electroless nickel finish applied. These look just like stainless, behave as stainless.

Other guns I would like to see made without the underlug or modified to lose the underlug, are Model 625's with 4 inch barrels in both .45 Colt and .45 ACP. I currently have Mountain Guns that are close to what I am after, but a stainless steel heavy barrel in the 1955 profile, with the original style ejector rod shroud applied to a 4 inch barrel would make me really happy.

The full length barrel underlug is often way too much of a good thing and losing that underlug, just leaving a Combat Magnum-style ejector rod shroud, would make me pry open my wallet to own such guns.
 
I'm pretty sure that "collectors" would indeed turn their noses up at such an animal, but I'll bet the average Joe looking for a .357 Smith & Wesson wouldn't know or care if the barrel lug has been ground/machined off.

The lug is one of the reasons I never wanted an "L" frame gun. The only reason they were there in the first place was S&W wanted something that looked like a Phython (IMHO).
 
"Personally, I'd love to be able to actually own a 4" 617 without the full lug, and might get around to buying one and getting it converted one day."

There were small numbers of Model 617's without the lug, in both 4 and 6 inch lengths, made in 1991 for Ashland Shooters Supply. There is a picture of one in SCS&W III.

Forum member bdGreen owns a few examples of the Ashland 617's, perhaps he will happen along and post some pictures for those who haven't seen them.
 
I don't get why there is such animosity toward the idea of customizing a "run-of-the-mill" 686, but this same forum "ooh's and ahh's: over Mr Boman's (beautiful) reworking of a much more scarce 38/44.
:confused:
 
Forum member bdGreen owns a few examples of the Ashland 617's, perhaps he will happen along and post some pictures for those who haven't seen them.

I'm not Bruce (bdGreen) and don't have his depth of knowledge by a long shot but I do have 2 of the 116 Ashland Shooter Supply 6 inch 617's.

HPIM3620.jpg


I even put a set of diamond grips on one for a shot :)...

HPIM3682.jpg


I wish they'd do another run of these in 4 & 6 inch.

GF
 
OK, Frakes, you're holding out on us again!

I think a poster above hit on the answer. The vast majority of buyers don't know or care. Many folks prefer the cleaner lines and lighter weight. Once a gun has been fired a few thousand times, a long since modification has no bearing on resale value. Its just as likely the modification will cause an increase in value as a decrease.
 
There were small numbers of Model 617's without the lug, in both 4 and 6 inch lengths, made in 1991 for Ashland Shooters Supply. There is a picture of one in SCS&W III. I always wanted a 4 incher without the full underlug on the barrel like that but never have run across one for sale.

I came close to having a Model 18 barrel Armaloyed or Metalifed and screwing it onto a regular Model 617. Then I thought, instead of that much trouble, maybe I should have a regular Model 18 Armaloyed or Metalifed or have some other electroless nickel finish applied. These look just like stainless, behave as stainless.



The full length barrel underlug is often way too much of a good thing and losing that underlug, just leaving a Combat Magnum-style ejector rod shroud, would make me pry open my wallet to own such guns.
I've read a little about the small run of half-lug 617's from the early 90's and have enviously seen the photos. From what I can tell, they are pretty hard to find for sale and command some pretty healthy premiums...if you'd even be able to find one. With that in mind, it seems like it wouldn't be too crazy of an idea to buy a 4" 617 and send it off to get the lug removed. Your idea about hard-chroming a Model 18 sounds like a viable option too. I know I want a half-lug 4" K-frame .22, but am looking for the ease of maintenance associated with SS. It may "ruin" the resale value of a M617 or a M18, but .22's are usually something you're more prone to hold on to...so the resale value wouldn't be an issue to me.

Decisions, decisions ;)
 
This is still a reason I am passively looking for a 686 MG if I ever buy a 686. I would even buy a 620 before a 686. Now if I ever did find a half lug 686 then it would be credit card devil time.
 
You guys are a BAD BAD influence. Every time I look at my 6 1/2 inch 610-3 all I think about is how much better it would look, and how much better it would balance, with a semi lugged barrel. Now I can see that at some point I'll be having a carbide half rounding bit ground to the proper radius and spending a weekend or two on one of the Bridgeports at work.

As for the effect on it's value, I don't care one little bit about that, I don't ever plan on selling my 610. Heck, if I could find 4 inch 610 I've been considering building a 3 1/2 610 with all of the window dressing of a Registered Magnum. We have 2 CnC mills at work and with a bit of programming it'd only take a weekend to reprofile the barrel to a tapered barrel that matched that on the RM. Then another bit of programing and another weekend to cross hatch the top strap and barrel rib. Finish it up by progamming the CnC to engrave the logo and caliber on the barrel and after a full polish the end result would look like a factory prototype.
 
Full versus Half Lug Barrels

I assume by the time this is read to the finish, half the readers will be PO'd.
When I read comments from members who downgrade anybody who modifies "THEIR" gun or guns, I want to puke. I sure don't believe I have the right to criticize anyone for taking their property and doing with it, what they decide.
I might not do the same modification or think it is either pleasing to eye or necessarily functional, but again, I'm sure that some of what I've had done would be looked at the same way by others.
Around 1995, I purchased two Model 610 no dash 10mm revolvers with 5" barrels and additional two model 686-3's.
I then proceeded to have modifications done to both of the model 610's and also had the 686's modified by having 5" 10mm barrels installed, cylinder rechambered for 40S&W and had the chambers recessed, Checkered top straps and barrels on all four guns, trigger work on all four guns, ball detents installed on all four and some other minor work. You might ask why. BECAUSE I wanted it done.

For those commenters that talk about re-sale value, I don't know anyone who when buying a current factory produce is also thinking about re-sale value at that time.

As for the collectors, I can understand them wanting what they collect being what they want to collect and in and of the conditions they want. What/how would they like for commenters to talk down either what they collect or the conditions the collector decided on.

Just my 2 cents worth, by the way, with Obama and the Feds. that 2 cents will shortly be worth 1 cent.

Semper Fi
baldeagle8888

P.S.
ALL four revolvers had the full lug barrels reduced to half lugs.
 
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Around 1995, I purchased two Model 610 no dash 10mm revolvers with 5" barrels and additional two model 686-3's.
I then proceeded to have modifications done to both of the model 610's and also had the 686's modified by having 5" 10mm barrels installed, cylinder rechambered for 40S&W and had the chambers recessed, Checkered top straps and barrels on all four guns, trigger work on all four guns, ball detents installed on all four and some other minor work.

P.S.
ALL four revolvers had the full lug barrels reduced to half lugs.

I (and I bet a lot of others) would love to see some pictures!
 
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